The Ten Thousand Ships Extract

[The Vulture King]

I wonder if any of the Rhyonar descendants in Dorne still have knowledge of their ancestors' magic, perhaps, some of the orphans of the Greenblood.

I don't think it was ancestor magic as much as it was magic directly connected to the greatest rive in the world Mother Rhyone. So in fact the orphans of the Greenblood cant even access said magic.

[Nilan8888]

Maybe it was just me, but although Valeryia still hearkens to ancient Rome, I had a distinct feel for "The Aeneid" in knowing what the final result was going to be in this piece. That the war results in the Rhoynar picking up and embarking on a mass migration where they then interbreed with another people... yeah, feels a lot like that to me.

[Lion of the West]

What I though was a bit strange was for there to be a people of apparently great warriors who lived peacefully and never bothered anyone. That most certainly sounds to me like a rather unlikely historical situation which I personally find to be rather un-Westeros.

[Ser Lepus]

What I though was a bit strange was for there to be a people of apparently great warriors who lived peacefully and never bothered anyone. That most certainly sounds to me like a rather unlikely historical situation which I personally find to be rather un-Westeros.

If they refused to live away from the Rhoyne, they had no reason to attack anyone, hence the "living peacefully and never bothering anyone" part.

About the "being great warriors" part, maybe they practiced martial arts the same way kids in our world play basketball, soccer or baseball. Add compulsory military service of a couple years for all eighteen years old, a core of professional soldiers (their civilization seemed advanced enough for that), powerful water wizards and a strong racial pride and patriotism that made them fight fiercely against invaders, and you would have a people who would put quite a fight.

Plus it seems that they only fought Valyrian colonists (who at the beginning probably were farmers and merchants and didn't have a professional army until the fight with the Rhoynar got serius, and were used to rely on dragons) and backwards, semi-barbaric Andals. That explains how they handled themselves so well until the dragons arrived.

[Lion of the West]

If they refused to live away from the Rhoyne, they had no reason to attack anyone, hence the "living peacefully and never bothering anyone" part.

About the "being great warriors" part, maybe they practiced martial arts the same way kids in our world play basketball, soccer or baseball. Add compulsory military service of a couple years for all eighteen years old, a core of professional soldiers (their civilization seemed advanced enough for that), powerful water wizards and a strong racial pride and patriotism that made them fight fiercely against invaders, and you would have a people who would put quite a fight.

Plus it seems that they only fought Valyrian colonists (who at the beginning probably were farmers and merchants and didn't have a professional army until the fight with the Rhoynar got serius, and were used to rely on dragons) and backwards, semi-barbaric Andals. That explains how they handled themselves so well until the dragons arrived.

They wouldn't need to live away from the Rhoyne, they would just need to send their armies on campaigns to subjugate other nations, put down rebellions etc. and could then return to the river. Look at Egypt, they didn't want to live away from the Nile but could still forge a great empire in the Levant and battle with various northern powers like the Hittites, Mitanni and Assyrians, yet always returned to the Nile.

Could be but unless they had some relevant reason to have a very martial society I don't see why they would have one. In all I'm not questioning that they could be great warriors. I am questioning that they are both great warriors with an, if we would take your reasons, martial society, but they never put that martial society into anything else beyond self-defense from the occasional raid. I don't buy that an entire nation would keep this and never use it to bring foreign lands under their rule.

True, but if the Rhoynar only fough occasional semi-barbarians before the Valyrians showed up how come they developed this martial skills? Unless they were like the Greeks with 24/7 war between the Rhoynar cities but I can't recall there being any hint of it. I mean most skills martial socities and cultures grows to be such from facing adversity and waging wars and often celebrating war as a great puruist of glory and wealth, not by sitting still with some occasional war now and then in pure self-defense.

[Ser Lepus]

They wouldn't need to live away from the Rhoyne, they would just need to send their armies on campaigns to subjugate other nations, put down rebellions etc. and could then return to the river. Look at Egypt, they didn't want to live away from the Nile but could still forge a great empire in the Levant and battle with various northern powers like the Hittites, Mitanni and Assyrians, yet always returned to the Nile.

Could be but unless they had some relevant reason to have a very martial society I don't see why they would have one. In all I'm not questioning that they could be great warriors. I am questioning that they are both great warriors with an, if we would take your reasons, martial society, but they never put that martial society into anything else beyond self-defense from the occasional raid. I don't buy that an entire nation would keep this and never use it to bring foreign lands under their rule.

The Egyptians only did that when their neighbours had developed some level of civilization that allowed the Egyptian conquerors to impose tributes and taxes. The only neighbours of the Rhoynar were the Andals at the west, the Ibbenese at the north and north-east and maybe some Proto-Dothraki at the east. It would be impossible to keep those people subjugated and impose them taxes unless you send a governor with an army and an administration or your own.

True, but if the Rhoynar only fough occasional semi-barbarians before the Valyrians showed up how come they developed this martial skills? Unless they were like the Greeks with 24/7 war between the Rhoynar cities but I can't recall there being any hint of it. I mean most skills martial socities and cultures grows to be such from facing adversity and waging wars and often celebrating war as a great puruist of glory and wealth, not by sitting still with some occasional war now and then in pure self-defense.

We don't know how frequent were the Andal invasions. It seems that the war with the Andals was bad enough at some point that the Rhoynar got serious and kicked them out of the continent. Maybe the Andals attacked them every year?

And the Rhoynar didn't need to be some kind of super-soldiers. All they needed was to be better than their enemies. If their enemies were tribal barbarian raiders and the urban militias of the Valyrian merchant/slaver colonies, they could beat them and pass into history as great warriors despite being just decent.

[Lion of the West]

The Egyptians only did that when their neighbours had developed some level of civilization that allowed the Egyptian conquerors to impose tributes and taxes. The only neighbours of the Rhoynar were the Andals at the west, the Ibbenese at the north and north-east and maybe some Proto-Dothraki at the east. It would be impossible to keep those people subjugated and impose them taxes unless you send a governor with an army and an administration or your own.

We don't know how frequent were the Andal invasions. It seems that the war with the Andals was bad enough at some point that the Rhoynar got serious and kicked them out of the continent. Maybe the Andals attacked them every year?

And the Rhoynar didn't need to be some kind of super-soldiers. All they needed was to be better than their enemies. If their enemies were tribal barbarian raiders and the urban militias of the Valyrian merchant/slaver colonies, they could beat them and pass into history as great warriors despite being just decent.

Well, truth be told the Egyptians started making aggressive moves in the Levant after their conflict with Hyksos. But I would get your drift. And you are right in that a sufficient number of advanced civilizations have not make counter-attacks on less developed nations for it to not be impossible. But in regards to forcing tribute I don't think that true. It seems to me that forcing tribute is te oldest form of subjugation that mankind knows of and its been going on for millennia. So I'm not sure about that. All you really need to do is to walk up to the chosen tribe, force them to hand over the stuff you want and threaten that if they do not produce the desired goods than you'll come back and teach them a bloody lesson.

Well, in regards to the Andals I would think that the relation was pretty complex given that they fought, but the Rhoynar taught the Andals how to work iron. And given the mentioning that the Rhoynar cities would fight one by one and not together against the Valyrian colonialists I don't think that any single northern Rhoynar city would be able to project enough force to take on an entire people like the Andals. And even less so when we discussed above how the Rhoynar would not conduct aggressive wars abroad, not to mention that fighting the Andals would effectivey prevent them from using their famed water magic to any effect.

True enough about the last part.