BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 then finding one... copying and pasting it should be no problem... yet nobody has.. I believe that was what iteration #86 was! Links to puerpal fever and several times people sketched out timelines and SSM about how he acknowledges that his own distances are not strict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 We have linked to so many sources about puerpurel fever and SSMs about GRRM and his (admitted) inconsistency with distance. Better people than I have given more explanation. lovely... who are they... and thank you the fever... and its links... firmly establish death at 3 to 10 days after birth for that fever... i did not ask for explanations... i asked for a source... that you will accept.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 stateofdissipation, if GRRM was more clear about their dates and events, he would be giving away the biggest mystery of his story. Some things you won't find textually neither in books or interviews, they're simply implied, otherwise, it would clarify some things that the author doesn't want yet clarified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 then finding one... copying and pasting it should be no problem... yet nobody has.. I gave you a line from the text by literally pulling AGOT up on my Kindle and typing what I read into the post window. The quote is what GRRM's actual text, written in the actual book, says about Dany's birth. Apple Martini then provided the length of Rossart's term as Hand. We know the event that started it and the event that ended it, and that both events happened between Rhaegar's death and the Sack. And really, this has nothing to do with R+L=J anymore, so I'll stop there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I believe that was what iteration #86 was! Links to puerpal fever and several times people sketched out timelines and SSM about how he acknowledges that his own distances are not strict. again thanks for the fever link.... and establishing 3 to 10 days after delivery.... though I never questioned that... (other than a conflict of sources that had symptioms of bleeding vs not.. once you provided the link i accepted your source) the link or source i have been requesting is to when jon was born.... failing that the link or source to when Lyanna died,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 lovely... who are they... and thank you the fever... and its links... firmly establish death at 3 to 10 days after birth for that fever... i did not ask for explanations... i asked for a source... that you will accept.. 1) Ygrain, Ygritte, Unmasked Lurker, Aeron_Damphair, IceFire, MntLion, SerCrieghton, Apple Martini, Rhaenys Targaryen, J. Stargaryen, good lord, the list goes on and on. Everyone who has posted in response to this over the past 3-4 threads. 2) I accept as a source: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, ASOIAF novellas, SSMs, internet research into topic with which I am unfamiliar and the logical well thought out posts of my fellow posters who have put together incredibly strong reasons for all the issues raised. I accept their headcanon, I accept my headcanon. I wait for Winds of Winter to see how wrong/right we are and then go again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Wha????? You asked for a textual or non textual sources, then tell him to stop dancing. They have given you myriad cannon sources, yet you seem to be insisting for more, more, more. Even the OJ Jury would have to agree with everything that's been said. How does telling someone to stop dancing around providing textual sources mean that you agree with the textual sources they've provided? Yes... I will agree with the text... and could you copy one of the myriad and attach it to the next one... because i missed every link and page number.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 the link or source i have been requesting is to when jon was born.... failing that the link or source to when Lyanna died,,, THEY ARE LEFT VAGUE ON PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S A MYSTERY. Hence, we're deducing it from what we do know. We're not going to find Lyanna's tombstone or Jon's birth certificate lying around while we wait for the next book. So we use canon and logic and literary analysis to fill in the holes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 1) Ygrain, Ygritte, Unmasked Lurker, Aeron_Damphair, IceFire, MntLion, SerCrieghton, Apple Martini, Rhaenys Targaryen, J. Stargaryen, good lord, the list goes on and on. Everyone who has posted in response to this over the past 3-4 threads. 2) I accept as a source: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, ASOIAF novellas, SSMs, internet research into topic with which I am unfamiliar and the logical well thought out posts of my fellow posters who have put together incredibly strong reasons for all the issues raised. I accept their headcanon, I accept my headcanon. I wait for Winds of Winter to see how wrong/right we are and then go again. so you are now the source i should check with to see if you are correct.... That could be the reason I missed all of your citations... they are your posts.... they are correct because you said them.... this seems reasonable and logical to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygritte Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Yes... I will agree with the text... and could you copy one of the myriad and attach it to the next one... because i missed every link and page number.... Here is the quote from the text about Dany's birth: She had been born on Dragonstone nine moons after their flight It's at 3% in the Kindle edition of AGOT. I didn't hyperlink it because I didn't get it from the internet--I looked it up in my book. I made a transcription error the first time; it actually says nine moons, not nine months. Mea culpa. Here's a hyperlink I have now found for you. http://books.google.com/books?id=5NomkK4EV68C&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=She+had+been+born+on+Dragonstone+nine+moons+after+their+flight&source=bl&ots=C_OrQx2qjY&sig=acS14Ke7TF8EZTqteqsbvEUqtrg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b__FU7j_BdGiyASx84DYBw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=She%20had%20been%20born%20on%20Dragonstone%20nine%20moons%20after%20their%20flight&f=false Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Creighton Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 1) Ygrain, Ygritte, Unmasked Lurker, Aeron_Damphair, IceFire, MntLion, SerCrieghton, Apple Martini, Rhaenys Targaryen, J. Stargaryen, good lord, the list goes on and on. Everyone who has posted in response to this over the past 3-4 threads. 2) I accept as a source: A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords, A Feast for Crows, A Dance With Dragons, ASOIAF novellas, SSMs, internet research into topic with which I am unfamiliar and the logical well thought out posts of my fellow posters who have put together incredibly strong reasons for all the issues raised. I accept their headcanon, I accept my headcanon. I wait for Winds of Winter to see how wrong/right we are and then go again.You forgot Martin, not just his works but his posted emails and questions he has answered.Here is a link to him answering questions, though I figure it would of been posted. Add what we are told about when Dany was born from the books, draw a line with numbers, problem solved, I am going to go have a coke and watch family guy on Netflix, hang in there because this will probably not solve the issue until Martin comes to every persons house and explains it in person to the entire world in televised interviews. At which point he will probably use a number line and explain why a cabbage can't actually have human children.http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Category/C91/P240/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 so you are now the source i should check with to see if you are correct.... That could be the reason I missed all of your citations... they are your posts.... they are correct because you said them.... this seems reasonable and logical to you? .... Remember earlier when we talked about headcanon and I defined it and all that? This is how I think the story is going to be told. No I am not the source. I have theories. I have theories based on text and on logic and on symoblogy and what others have brought to my attention. You want cold hard facts? I can't give them. I can't because I am not George RR Martin and I do not have ALL THE THINGS. It's very possible that all of us are going to be dead wrong. But until then, I am going to stick with the theories that I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 stateofdissipation, if GRRM was more clear about their dates and events, he would be giving away the biggest mystery of his story. Some things you won't find textually neither in books or interviews, they're simply implied, otherwise, it would clarify some things that the author doesn't want yet clarified. Unclear is not unknowable... we are given a ballpark: This much has been clarified; Death of Rhaegar- puts Jon born (9 months before Dany).. on the death of Raegar. Jon born (8 months before Dany) is one month after the death of Rhaegar. Sack of KL--puts Jon born (9 months before Dany) during the sack (two weeks after trident)-- Jon born (8 months before Dany) is 1 month after sack. (6 weeks after Trident) Maximum range is between the Trident and 6 weeks after the Trident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 THEY ARE LEFT VAGUE ON PURPOSE BECAUSE IT'S A MYSTERY. Hence, we're deducing it from what we do know. We're not going to find Lyanna's tombstone or Jon's birth certificate lying around while we wait for the next book. So we use canon and logic and literary analysis to fill in the holes. Yes, and I'm also pretty sure the author has admitted that the fuzziness of the timeline is by design. That's why, as you said, we have to use logic and available information (e.g. Rossart's tenure as hand) to piece it together as best as we can and get a general idea. That's as good as it's going to get for now, and maybe ever, so I'm not sure what else this person expects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 .... Remember earlier when we talked about headcanon and I defined it and all that? This is how I think the story is going to be told. No I am not the source. I have theories. I have theories based on text and on logic and on symoblogy and what others have brought to my attention. You want cold hard facts? I can't give them. I can't because I am not George RR Martin and I do not have ALL THE THINGS. It's very possible that all of us are going to be dead wrong. But until then, I am going to stick with the theories that I have. Headcon was a lovely idea... Remember when I asked you if it was reasonable to use your own assumptions as the basis for further assumptions? --Fan fiction I also asked if was ok to include your conclusion in your premise... --Not reasonable I assumed the answers would be "no." I don't think you ever answered it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearQueen87 Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Headcon was a lovely idea... Remember when I asked you if it was reasonable to use your own assumptions as the basis for further assumptions? --Fan fiction I also asked if was ok to include your conclusion in your premise... --Not reasonable I assumed the answers would be "no." I don't think you ever answered it though. okay. I have no answers. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. *shrug* This has nothing to do with R+L = J. It's a debate into the nature of debate. I give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 okay. I have no answers. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. *shrug* This has nothing to do with R+L = J. It's a debate into the nature of debate. I give up. I read that like three times and I still have no idea what he's even trying to say. So giving up is probably wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Here is the quote from the text about Dany's birth: It's at 3% in the Kindle edition of AGOT. I didn't hyperlink it because I didn't get it from the internet--I looked it up in my book. I made a transcription error the first time; it actually says nine moons, not nine months. Mea culpa. Here's a hyperlink I have now found for you. http://books.google.com/books?id=5NomkK4EV68C&pg=PT34&lpg=PT34&dq=She+had+been+born+on+Dragonstone+nine+moons+after+their+flight&source=bl&ots=C_OrQx2qjY&sig=acS14Ke7TF8EZTqteqsbvEUqtrg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=b__FU7j_BdGiyASx84DYBw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=She%20had%20been%20born%20on%20Dragonstone%20nine%20moons%20after%20their%20flight&f=false TY for at least providing a link...to Dany was born 9 moons after her flight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 okay. I have no answers. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. *shrug* This has nothing to do with R+L = J. It's a debate into the nature of debate. I give up. there, there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stateofdissipation Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 okay. I have no answers. Maybe I'm doing it all wrong. *shrug* This has nothing to do with R+L = J. It's a debate into the nature of debate. I give up. I was new to headcanon--and its distinction from fan fiction--... and to extra canon... I accepted them.... and asked for a clarification on their use I am not attacking your theory... i am seeing what the ground rules are. Death of Rhaegar- puts Jon born (9 months before Dany).. on the death of Raegar. Jon born (8 months before Dany) is one month after the death of Rhaegar. Sack of KL--puts Jon born (9 months before Dany) during the sack (two weeks after trident)-- Jon born (8 months before Dany) is 1 month after sack. (6 weeks after Trident) Jon's birth was no earlier than Rhaegar's death and no later than 6 weeks after Rhaegar's death--- I provided a link... to one of the sources you cited. My question was is that canon to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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