Arya Surprise?

[ARYa_Nym]

And 11-year-old girls get crushes all the time. Just ask the guys in One Direction.

This doesn't have anything to do with gender but sexual orientation.

Now this may not be proven but still men/boys are associated with having a higher sex drive/more interest in sex than the other gender. So the fact that Arya lacks sexual interest in the opposite sex I would say is not more proof that she must be a boy.

When men or boys talk about who they want to touch or have sex with and she has complete disinterest or doesn't understand why they would how would that make her more one of the guys? It doesn't.

Anyways, Arya doesn't have the hands of a blacksmith. Gendry told her that her hands were too soft. He would know more than Septa Mordane would.

[John Suburbs]

Again, I never said Arya must be a boy. I said that if GRRM were to make this a plot twist, then here is the real-world medical precedent that would explain it.

The comment about blacksmith hands would be more of a foreshadowing, rather than a literal description.

[MandrakeWench]

When I read about Arya eating the bugs, it makes me want to try some bugs too.

So is this basically like penis envy??

[JonisHenryTudor]

Again, I never said Arya must be a boy. I said that if GRRM were to make this a plot twist, then here is the real-world medical precedent that would explain it.

The comment about blacksmith hands would be more of a foreshadowing, rather than a literal description.

True. Except....Martin wants to maintain a sense of realism, and Medieval English medical books are completely ignorant to ambiguous genitalia. So...that would just not make sense in context of the era. You might as well argue that Tyrion has aids, and that by the end of he series he will die from HIV. It would be the worst sort of anachronism I could think of, the same with the AG. It was not known to people during the middle ages therefore it wouldn't be realistic to have a character written with AG.

[JonisHenryTudor]

When I read about Arya eating the bugs, it makes me want to try some bugs too.

So is this basically like penis envy??

Yep....she loves earthworms, so it should be obvious......

[Bog Devil of Greywater]

I have this all figured out now. Arya has ambiguous genitalia, so it stands to reason that Nymeria does also. Nymeria is obviously the Alpha Male *AND* the Alpha Female to her super pack roaming the Riverlands because none of them can actually tell what sex she is!

On a serious note, though, there is the story of Brave Danny Flint that made a couple appearances in Dance.

It has occurred to me that if that story was placed as foreshadowing, if anyone was going to pose as a boy to join the Watch, it'd be Arya.

[John Suburbs]

True. Except....Martin wants to maintain a sense of realism, and Medieval English medical books are completely ignorant to ambiguous genitalia. So...that would just not make sense in context of the era. You might as well argue that Tyrion has aids, and that by the end of he series he will die from HIV. It would be the worst sort of anachronism I could think of, the same with the AG. It was not known to people during the middle ages therefore it wouldn't be realistic to have a character written with AG.

Just because people are ignorant of a medical condition doesn't mean it does not exist. In fact, ignorance of AG supports the idea that Arya would look like a girl and no one would have any reason to suspect otherwise and perform a real close examination, so she would just be raised as a girl with the truth hidden even from Arya herself.

But I agree that literary-wise the whole idea would be a very weak basis on which to build a plot twist, especially when you consider all the other secret identity possibilities floating around: Jon, Tyrion, Sweetrobin... You can only take so many reveals before it all starts to seem forced.

[Game Of Thrones]

I don't think it is necessarily sexists. I think we get far too carried away with these sensitivity cards. I think it is quite simply an over analysis of a character, and when most girls in westeros are dainty, Arya is not. But Ayra is not the only "tomboy"-ish character. Asha, Brienne, Ayra, Ygritte, and others all have "male traits" for a medieval context, but are nonetheless females.

Did you see that thread about Asha actually being Rodrik Greyjoy in disguise?

[Red Wedding Cake]

I wonder if Faceless Men change gender at will and if their whole body changes...

That's enough crackpottery for today.

[Game Of Thrones]

Arya is obviously a boy. Hodor put a glamour on her.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Just because people are ignorant of a medical condition doesn't mean it does not exist. In fact, ignorance of AG supports the idea that Arya would look like a girl and no one would have any reason to suspect otherwise and perform a real close examination, so she would just be raised as a girl with the truth hidden even from Arya herself.

But I agree that literary-wise the whole idea would be a very weak basis on which to build a plot twist, especially when you consider all the other secret identity possibilities floating around: Jon, Tyrion, Sweetrobin... You can only take so many reveals before it all starts to seem forced.

That was sort of my point. If you don't know that it exists and you have no idea what to look for, then the likelihood that Martin would integrate it into a society which knows nothing about it is unlikely. Forget our pov. If it were a real case, how would it come out? Again we have to consider that in their society nobody would know. Having said that, it would never be revealed in the text since nobody in Westeros would have the slightest clue what AG is.

I think the differences here are that while Ayra could have AG, it just doesn't work as a literary point. If we were looking at historical documents of the middle ages and in a journal the individual is expressing thoughts and concerns about their genitalia, then we can forget about what they knew and integrate our own medical knowledge to explain certain physiological phenomenon of the period. That makes sense. Unless Martin writes a personal letter or a large passage of Ayra debating the state of her genitalia, we have to just assume the obvious that she is a girl unless told otherwise.

Did you see that thread about Asha actually being Rodrik Greyjoy in disguise?

No. That sounds fun. :stillsick:

[John Suburbs]

Sometime within the next book, Arya should either get her period or start to notice something weird happening to her junk.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Sometime within the next book, Arya should either get her period or start to notice something weird happening to her junk.

Ok if this is the reason you're excited for WoW, I really just don't know what to say! :cool4: