Season 5 plot theories

[Ingelheim]

Has all of that been confirmed? I don't feel like those changes make much sense.

Yep, they've been confirmed.

[Mr. Sven]

Yep, they've been confirmed.

Where at? I haven't seen anything besides speculation.

The starting point of my ideas about the season 5 is that whatever line HBO show cuts in book 4 and 5, then they will have to cut also on the (hypothetical) book 6 and 7. I say that just to indicate that, in my view, THEY CAN NOT ARRIVE TO THE END OF THE ADWD! At lesat, not for all the characters. I am quite sure they will arrive to the walk of shame of Cersei but I'm not even sure that they will cover the Epilogue with Varys killing Kevan and Pycelle (it works better as a starting point of season 6). So, on a avarage level I am quite confident they will keep at least one third (roughly) of ADWD for Season 6.

I mean season 4 was nice, but except for Bran, Sansa and Brienne, it was mostly covering the last third of ASOS, so I don't see them increasing so much the speed!

It is true that they might cut entire sub-stories like Arianne, Aegon, Euron, Victario, UnCat, the Citadel, Quentin, The Tattered Prince and others.

Let's go one by one.

Arianne: her role in the queenmaking plot will be taken by the sand snakes. If she is important she might appear in in season 6 as the wise daughter of Doran.

Aegon: This is the most tricky one! If they cut it, Varys will look like an idiot. Unless D&D change him in a peace seeker against chaos (but then how could he kill pycelle?) Aegon must remain. Even off-screen and without interaction with Tyrion. But somehow it must remain.

Euron: His role in the story is to attack westeros. Since many battles were already off-screen (the most important was the whispering wood and nobody complained) this stuff can remain off-screen as well.

Victarion: I'm quite sure his role is to make possible Tyrion steals a dragon. But D&D can easily arrange that without Victarion. Anyway he can be off-screen till season 6.

UnCat: Who knows what is her role? If it is only to make Brienne causing Jamie's death D&D can arrange it differently. Else, she must remain somehow. Again if they keep Brienn wandering in the woods (Jamie apparently will be in Dorne in Season 5), this can be arranged in season 6.

The tattered prince and all the convolute sellswords: CUT (luckily!)

I also guess GRRM told the readers the sory of Edric Storm for a reason. In this case his role will be taken by TV Gendry (playing a completely different role compared to the books).

Last: I will be sure about the 7 seasons only when I will see that! The story that 8 seasons would be too expensive for prolonging contract doesn't really make sense. I have the feeling most of the characters coming from season 1 will be dead before an hypothetical season 8 (adapting the end of book 7).

I'd disagree that Arianne is wise, in fact I think she'll steer Dorne towards war since she doesn't want to be below her brother

[uff]

oviously Aianne personality can not remain the same if they change the plot...

[Mr. Sven]

oviously Aianne personality can not remain the same if they change the plot...

It looks like her personality will be pretty crucial to her story though so I don't think there is much point in bringing her in if you're going to change her completely.

[I'll pay the iron price]

Theon will sleep in the kennels at Winterfell

[Ingelheim]

Where at? I haven't seen anything besides speculation.

I'd disagree that Arianne is wise, in fact I think she'll steer Dorne towards war since she doesn't want to be below her brother

Sorry it took me so long to answer. Well, here are the sources:

-No Victarion: http://imgur.com/F66UuVh . That's the official guide to the TV show. As you can see, Theon has only one uncle: Euron.

-Trystane being Doran's only son and heir: He's described in the casting announcements as Doran's heir. Which means there is no Arianne.

It looks like in the TV Series there is nothing like "Dornish laws". Oberyn for example mentioned to Tyrion that his father brought him and Elia to Casterly Rock. In the books, it was his mother, the Ruler of Dorne.

-Show ending after the 7th season, you have all of these intervies where D&D said that: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/

http://tvline.com/2014/03/12/game-of-thrones-ending-season-7-final/

[Mr. Sven]

Sorry it took me so long to answer. Well, here are the sources:

-No Victarion: http://imgur.com/F66UuVh . That's the official guide to the TV show. As you can see, Theon has only one uncle: Euron.

-Trystane being Doran's only son and heir: He's described in the casting announcements as Doran's heir. Which means there is no Arianne.

It looks like in the TV Series there is nothing like "Dornish laws". Oberyn for example mentioned to Tyrion that his father brought him and Elia to Casterly Rock. In the books, it was his mother, the Ruler of Dorne.

-Show ending after the 7th season, you have all of these intervies where D&D said that: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/03/11/game-of-thrones-7-seasons/

http://tvline.com/2014/03/12/game-of-thrones-ending-season-7-final/

Can't the first two just be mistakes though?

[Ingelheim]

Can't the first two just be mistakes though?

The first one could be changed, but not the second one.

There is no Arianne. It's a shame, her being one of my favourite characters, but it's pretty well established Trystane is Doran's heir in Seaon 5.

[JonSnowed]

I think you have too much happening in a lot of the plot lines what will they do for season 6?

I think most of the Bran plotline will revolve around Blood Raven's history and we'll see something about the tourney of Harrenhall.

We won't see Stannis march for Winterfell he'll spend most of this season building his relationship with Jon. So Theon doesn't escape yet. I'm sure they'll have fake arya.

I think Brienne will leave the Vale to find where Arya might have gone and meet that one knight ( I think he was called the mad mouse or something can't really remember)

I don't think Cersei will be imprisoned until season 6 but I suppose it could happen this season. I don't think she'll have Jamie get Myrcella maybe she sends him there to give them the mountains head instead.

I think Tyrion's arc this season will end with him getting captured by Jorah.

Dorne's arc will probably end with Darkstar attacking Myrcella

I don't think Sam actually gets to Braavos this season. I think you're right about Arya apart from killing the nightswatch guy though.

I'm absolutely certain we'll end up getting Arianne and Victarion.

Season 6 will need to cover Winds of Winter, remember only seven seasons for seven books.

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

I kinda of hate all of this.

I get the show is becoming a separate entity from the books, but this would be just to much.
No Arianne, no Greyjoy bros, no Val and holy shit...No Aegon? I mean seriously? Really fuckin hope George is really hard at work and can manage to release tWoW at least before they start producing season 6.

If that were the case, maybe there still could be hope for some damage control.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

I kinda of hate all of this.

I get the show is becoming a separate entity from the books, but this would be just to much.

No Arianne, no Greyjoy bros, no Val and holy shit...No Aegon? I mean seriously? Really fuckin hope George is really hard at work and can manage to release tWoW at least before they start producing season 6.

If that were the case, maybe there still could be hope for some damage control.

What sort of damage control are you envisioning should the book come out before season 6? The reason for the cuts are not lack of material or lack of knowledge of what the characters will do. Also, scripts for season 6 will be worked on starting January - in 4 months - if I understand the process correctly. So I'm very curious what you're hoping will be affected, when and how. Unless you just mean damage control for the reader's own personal knowledge.

[Mokymok]

and no "Edd, fetch me a block" ?

[Ser Pounce FTW]

and no "Edd, fetch me a block" ?

Why not? Both Edd and Slynt are at the Wall and Slynt has already done enough for Jon to notice him, dislike him and punish him: he hid during the attack. I'm sure it will be even worse next season. I definitely think we'll see the block and Jon swinging the sword.

[Ingelheim]

I kinda of hate all of this.

I get the show is becoming a separate entity from the books, but this would be just to much.

No Arianne, no Greyjoy bros, no Val and holy shit...No Aegon? I mean seriously? Really fuckin hope George is really hard at work and can manage to release tWoW at least before they start producing season 6.

If that were the case, maybe there still could be hope for some damage control.

I'm gonna sound like a jerk.

The loss I will miss the most is te Val one. The Greyjoys bored me. Arianne is a good character, but since they'll make Trystane sort of like her, it's not that wrong.

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

What sort of damage control are you envisioning should the book come out before season 6? The reason for the cuts are not lack of material or lack of knowledge of what the characters will do. Also, scripts for season 6 will be worked on starting January - in 4 months - if I understand the process correctly. So I'm very curious what you're hoping will be affected, when and how. Unless you just mean damage control for the reader's own personal knowledge.

First of, I don't agree with what you're saying about the lack of material:

Yes, by now D&D do know most of the story that's left to tell in the books, but they do no not know THAT MUCH to work on such material for a tv show. Hence the many cuts. How come season 1 and 2 were so freakin faithful (not completely, yes) to the books? Because they had most of the characters story's circles come to an end by then.

Now what do they have? Aegon, Victarion, Euron, Arianne and many of the newest characters still don't have that many written pages to create a solid story for a TV show. Sure, George probably told them in a pretty generic way what their role will be in book 6 and 7, but at that point isn't much more easy to cut most of these characters?And look, that's exactly what they're doing! They are cutting characters like these left and right, replacing them or fusing them with others or completely new ones because it's waaay easier than work on what they've heard from George and still couldn't read in a book. Remember Talisa? You think that if Jeyne's role was still that unclear they would've bothered introducing Talisa at all? And by then, they didn't even knew the "whole story" left to tell.

What I mean, is that if book 6 gets released before season 6 pre-production starts, many of the changes that season 5 will bring could themselves be subjects to changes to make the tv show once again much more close to the books.

So you could still get characters like Lady Stoneheart, Arianne, Victarion and so on without even the smallest fear of having them cut. In a fashion similar to the introduction of Jojen and Meera in season 3.

It's really pretty simple if you think about it. If ASOIF was already finished, do you think they would still bother to cut characters that clearly DON'T have a secondary role? For Pete's sake Quentyn, Arianne, Victarion and Aeron are all recurring POV characters. And so is Griff.

It all comes down to the books taking an eternity to get released: If George wrote faster there wouldn't be issues like characters getting fused, cut or replaced. Like it or not it's the simple truth.

[Ser Pounce FTW]

Remember Talisa? You think that if Jeyne's role was still that unclear they would've bothered introducing Talisa at all? And by then, they didn't even knew the "whole story" left to tell.

What I mean, is that if book 6 gets released before season 6 pre-production starts, many of the changes that season 5 will bring could themselves be subjects to changes to make the tv show once again much more close to the books.

So you could still get characters like Lady Stoneheart, Arianne, Victarion and so on without even the smallest fear of having them cut. In a fashion similar to the introduction of Jojen and Meera in season 3.

You're mistaken in your assumption that when the show makes a big change it's because they don't have the written story to refer to. That is incorrect for Talisa and for the likely cuts of Arianne, Victarion and LS. Talisa, in particular, and even LS lack of appearance in the last season, were explained by D&D

and had nothing to do with not knowing how their story ends.

If George wrote faster there wouldn't be issues like characters getting fused, cut or replaced. Like it or not it's the simple truth.

This is not a simple truth. You really don't seem to understand the streamlining that will be required of the books since HBO seems has said there will only be 3 more seasons. 4, if the gods favor us. And that means characters will not be included and their actions will be given to other characters, if those actions are important and impactful, like the already introduced Gendry being almost sacrificed by Stannis rather than introducing Edric. They have to know what's coming to make those calls.

[Daemon I Blackfyre]

You're mistaken in your assumption that when the show makes a big change it's because they don't have the written story to refer to. That is incorrect for Talisa and for the likely cuts of Arianne, Victarion and LS. Talisa, in particular, and even LS lack of appearance in the last season, were explained by D&D

and had nothing to do with not knowing how their story ends.

This is not a simple truth. You really don't seem to understand the streamlining that will be required of the books since HBO seems has said there will only be 3 more seasons. 4, if the gods favor us. And that means characters will not be included and their actions will be given to other characters, if those actions are important and impactful, like the already introduced Gendry being almost sacrificed by Stannis rather than introducing Edric. They have to know what's coming to make those calls.

You're mistaken in buying everything they say as the truth.

Regarding Edric, he could and did get cut because his role was truly replaceable (he also disappears from the books) and Gendry's character really doesn't have anything better to do at that point. Sure, maybe George will blow our minds giving him an important role to play later on in the books, but then again the issue would remain the exact same one I already talked about.

Besides, Edric got replaced with Gendry, which is not really the same thing of Arianne and Quentyn getting replaced by Trystane who did not even yet appear in the books (and that's just one example).

And Edric is not even a POV character, so comparing him to the characters I listed earlier is not really fair.

Also, if I remember correctly, by season 3 D&D didn't know the whole story. And like I said, even if they do know what's coming now, it's hard to work on what you've only heard from George's mouth. They have to create an adaptation of a really complicated story, and you CAN'T do that if you're not working on a story that has already been COMPLETED (and I'm not even really talking about the whole story; if George had already finished tWoW that could be enough).

Hence the many changes and the show becoming a more separate world from the books one.

[aFeastForDragons]

Where at? I haven't seen anything besides speculation.

In people's heads the same way people speculated Oberyn was going to survive his duel with the Mountain and marry Dany, Mereen was cut, Shae will go across the narrow see with Tyrion and Stannis burns Brienne on Dragonstone.

[Northbound3.0]

I'm pretty certain we get all of Feast/Dance. The season closes with Dany flying off on Drogon and Jon being stabbed. Episode 9 will be the juggernaut battle, with battle of Ice; between Stannis and Boltons.

[DanStark]

I cant see all of Dance and Feast being covered this season even with the exclusion of a lot of POV charcters. Like we still have untouched Jon chapters from SoS. Then we have to go through the whole proccess of Jon being Lord Commander and how his action annoy the Lords of the NW, he can't be stabbed for no reason and lets be honest, Jon being stabbed is an episode 9 through and through people thinking Jon has been murdered will cause a bigger uproar than the Red Wedding. and all of this is just at the Wall. Somehow Davos has to learn where Rickon is without Manderly or else just stay at the wall, we probably will get a bit of Theon trying to redeem himself but the start of the battle of ice coincides with Jon being stabbed which is just too far away book wise to be done this season, We have no Hodor for certain and will have very little Bran. Asha Yara has to find an excuse to go back north and get captured by Stannis as all her actions are based on the result of the kingsmoot we wont see because she only has one uncle and Balon isn't even dead yet! and all of this is just in the North.

Tyrion, Cersei and Dany are all going to get even heavier screentime now with Breaking Bad gone so that the show can start picking up more awards and we know that we are going to see a lot of Dorne this season so I dont see how they can fit everything from DwD and FfC into season 5 without really streamlining it and even then it wont feel right. For example the whole relationship between Stannis and Jon is important to the fate of the wildlings and Winterfell so if D&D gloss over that in a couple of episodes the viewers wont get the sense of injustice the NW feels for Jon for taking part in a Kings war and making peace with wildlings.. again this is only the North!! We need 8-10 seasons depending on how many books GRRM writes. Offically it's 7 but he has said he may need to write 8 so 7 seasons of show won't cut it