Plot holes (Real ones, not things you don't like)

[Colonel Green]

Wardenship, like the office of the Hand, is a royal office. The members of the Kingsguard can hold other royal offices in the service of the king. The vow against inheritance, etc. is meant to prevent conflicts of interest between the king and one's own holdings, but neither the warden's office nor the Handship creates such a conflict.

[Ingelheim]

And yet, he was Hand of the King at some point. Had that truly not been possible, then Cole wouldn't have been named Hand. He was already in the Small Council, as LC of the KG, anyway.

Sure, but that doesn't mean it's not forbidden. What Jaime did, for example, was. Yet he did it.

Cole wasn't the only Kingsguard to serve as Hand, though. Ryam Redwyne was hand to Jaehaerys I

Fair enough. I still think there are some inconsistencies with the vows of the KG.

[Maid So Fair]

Ned's problem with it was that it made the Wardens of both the West and the East Lannisters, since Tywin already had the West.

It concentrated too much power into the hands of one family.

That as well, though he does mention he expected it to go to little Sweetrobin as a matter of courtesy.

Be that as it may, if it was truly against the vows of the KG to hold such an office, surely he would have mentioned that first of all.

[Bryanfury]

BryanFury, the fact that it comes from GRRM is why its a plothole, more accurately its plot armor. The reason Tyrion gives for not being able to kill LF is preposterous.

No, it isn't. It's not a plothole, it's an explained and reasoned occurrence. Tyrion arrives at Kings Landing fully intending to make Littlefinger pay for setting him up. Upon his arrival, however, he quickly realises how connected Littlefinger is and how many people are paid directly by Littlefinger who would likely take great offense to having their paymaster killed and subsequently having their salaries removed, not to mention the convoluted book keeping making it incredibly hard to replace him. And that aside, Littlefinger is shortly thereafter sent away to the Tyrells, well out of Tyrions miniscule reach so even IF Tyrion decided to go ahead on his "Kill the man who pays everyone else", he couldn't. Tyrion accurately reflects himself that he doesn't have the time, nor the influence, to remove Littlefinger without serious fear of reprisal. This is exactly why it isn't a plothole. A plothole is "a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that creates a paradox in the story that cannot be reconciled with any explanation". Not only is there no gap or inconsistency (because Tyrion tries to follow up on his plans from AGoT), but no unexplainable, irreconcilable paradox is created because Tyrion himself explains why it cannot happen.

Seriously, this is not a plothole. It's just something that didn't happen and you don't like it so you pretend there isn't a pretext for why Tyrion doesn't kill, imprison, or remove Littlefinger even though there's quite a good deal of internalized thought giving us that very pretext:

Tyrion smiled at him, remembering a certain dagger with a dragonbone hilt and a Valyrian steel blade. We must have a talk about that, and soon. He wondered if Lord Petyr would find that subject amusing as well.

Tyrion considering how he will bring the problem up.

“Fascinating,” said Littlefinger. “And all the more reason I’d sooner bed down in the dungeon.” Perhaps you’ll get that wish, Tyrion thought

Have no fear, my lord, Tyrion thought, it’s not the Wall I have in mind for you.

Tyrion considering how he will address/resolve the problem.

“Mine?” Tyrion gave him a long look. “No. I think not. Never mine.” He knows, the insolent wretch.

Tyrion starting to get a feel for whatever Littlefinger is playing at, quickly followed by 4 paragraphs that explain your supposed plothole:

Oh, he was clever. He did not simply collect the gold and lock it in a treasure vault, no. He paid the king’s debts in promises, and put the king’s gold to work. He bought wagons, shops, ships, houses. He bought grain when it was plentiful and sold bread when it was scarce. He bought wool from the north and linen from the south and lace from Lys, stored it, moved it, dyed it, sold it. The golden dragons bred and multiplied, and Littlefinger lent them out and brought them home with hatchlings.

And in the process, he moved his own men into place. The Keepers of the Keys were his, all four. The King’s Counter and the King’s Scales were men he’d named. The officers in charge of all three mints. Harbormasters, tax farmers, customs sergeants, wool factors, toll collectors, pursers, wine factors; nine of every ten belonged to Littlefinger. They were men of middling birth, by and large; merchants’ sons, lesser lordlings, sometimes even foreigners, but judging from their results, far more able than their highborn predecessors.

No one had ever thought to question the appointments, and why should they? Littlefinger was no threat to anyone. A clever, smiling, genial man, everyone’s friend, always able to find whatever gold the king or his Hand required, and yet of such undistinguished birth, one step up from a hedge knight, he was not a man to fear. He had no banners to call, no army of retainers, no great stronghold, no holdings to speak of, no prospects of a great marriage.

But do I dare touch him? Tyrion wondered. Even if he is a traitor? He was not at all certain he could, least of all now, while the war raged. Given

time, he could replace Littlefinger’s men with his own in key positions, but . . .

The bold explains 100% exactly why Tyrion cannot, and does not, move directly against Littlefinger. I mean, for the love of gods, this is in the damn text. This isn't some subtle clue GRRM wants us to wonder about, it's a blatant in-your-face declaration of WHY Tyrion decides to leave Littlefinger alone in the mean time.

Or maybe this entire passage is just a huge plothole because lolwhocares just kill Littlefinger anyway! :rolleyes:

[aryagonnakill#2]

I think the fact that a large noble house would have a huge amount of debt after a 5 year summer when that house is in the Vale and not needing to call its banners is not realistic. We are told that Anya Waynwood had her debt bought up by LF, and that seems to continue to trend of LF having everything work out perfectly for him.

As I've stated before I think the reason given for Tyrion not killing/imprisoning LF is a plothole.

[HexMachina]

Why is it so unreasonable to assume the Waynwoods are in debt? They are an old noble family, who knows how long their debt spans back? If, for example, they have been indebted to party x for generations, a long summer with some good harvests is not going to cancel out that debt. Furthermore, Anya has a number of.children/grandchildren. Lord Sunderland mentions in a Dance with Dragons just how expensive it is for a child to become a knight, think how much it must have cost the Waynwoods. Its hardly a plot hole - it is easily explainable, and given how full of "filler" people say aFfC and aDwD is (even if I disagree) I hardly think an elaboration of how House Waynwood accumulated its debt over the year would have gone down well with readers.

[farm_ecology]

This is something I was already thinking about as well. Mendel's laws don't seem to be working in Westeros. But I'm not sure, if this is really a plothole, to me this is just an over-simplification for the sake of the story.

We don't even know if genetics and DNA exist in this world.

So why didn't he call Petyr out then and avoid the war starting then, particularly as it may help him get rid of Petyr on grounds of false accusation and it's Petyr's dagger that was used on Catelyn. Petyr is Varys' main rival in the game, so why did Varys mess up so much at this point?

Because LF and varys are working together