Lord Friendzone Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 On 13. 1. 2016 at 2:53 PM, ChillyPolly said: If they don't like it, they won't do it. Nothing binds them. This has nothing to do with liking. George asked about it and if they understood his work, they passed the test, evidence is laid, they talked about it and other things for sure and since it's a game changer. Not that I like it, but it is as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 12 minutes ago, Lord Friendzone said: This has nothing to do with liking. George asked about it and if they understood his work, they passed the test, evidence is laid, they talked about it and other things for sure and since it's a game changer. Not that I like it, but it is as it is. If you ever have to sign a contract, please get someone to read the fine print for you. It seems to me you run a serious risk of confusing puffery with binding legal promises. Yeah sure, GRRM may have shopped around a bit before he decided to sell. But sell he did. And now, it is sold. And unless GRRM negotiated for serious restrictions (because he prefers creative control to being paid lots of money, which I doubt), HBO can now do what it likes with its own show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 R+L=J but also I like some alternatives. Jojen paste. Theon durden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 1 hour ago, ChillyPolly said: If you ever have to sign a contract, please get someone to read the fine print for you. It seems to me you run a serious risk of confusing puffery with binding legal promises. Yeah sure, GRRM may have shopped around a bit before he decided to sell. But sell he did. And now, it is sold. And unless GRRM negotiated for serious restrictions (because he prefers creative control to being paid lots of money, which I doubt), HBO can now do what it likes with its own show. You are missing the point of Lord Friendzone's argument here. You are right in that they probably can do whatever they like but where have they shown a willingness to change major story lines or characters ? They stuck with killing Ned I think we can agree most networks wouldnt kill off the only actor with name recognition on a new show. So far they have hit almost ALL of the major beats why do you think that the show won't continue to do so? Sure there is no fAegon now but if George has told them R+L=J then why would they change it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hyle Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 16 minutes ago, RobOsevens said: You are missing the point of Lord Friendzone's argument here. You are right in that they probably can do whatever they like but where have they shown a willingness to change major story lines or characters ? They stuck with killing Ned I think we can agree most networks wouldnt kill off the only actor with name recognition on a new show. So far they have hit almost ALL of the major beats why do you think that the show won't continue to do so? Sure there is no fAegon now but if George has told them R+L=J then why would they change it? How could they possibly have hoped to tell a similar story/get to the same endpoint if they didn't kill Ned. I'm sure HBO was excited as fuck to kill off Ned in Ep. 9 for the reaction it was going to stir up. But I agree with you that they're not going to take the general plotline in an entirely new direction. The main characters are going to get to the same place as they do in the novels, but they may take different routes Eg. Jaime and Sansa (both horrible changes, btw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just now, Ser Hyle said: How could they possibly have hoped to tell a similar story/get to the same endpoint if they didn't kill Ned. I'm sure HBO was excited as fuck to kill off Ned in Ep. 9 for the reaction it was going to stir up. This is my point to ChillyPolly, who thinks the show can (they probably can) and will (they won't imo) change whatever they want going forward. We know D&D talk with GRRM about the endgame so the show will hit the major points and the major characters will end up in relatively similar positions, ofcourse there will be some changes but if R+L=J is true in the books it will be in the show and if Dany ends up on the IT then she will in the show as well. (just examples not saying it will happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alienor Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 R+L=J Brienne is a descendant of Dunk And I really love Brandon Stark + Ashara Dayne = Allyria Dayne, though I'm not sure I believe it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Hyle Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 R+L=J Gravedigger = SC Jon Snow gets resurrected Yup, all obvious. I can't immediately think of any non heavily hinted theories that have been confirmed through 5 volumes (correct me if I'm wrong, please!), so I don't see much reason for that to change in the final 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2 hours ago, RobOsevens said: You are missing the point of Lord Friendzone's argument here. You are right in that they probably can do whatever they like but where have they shown a willingness to change major story lines or characters ? They stuck with killing Ned I think we can agree most networks wouldnt kill off the only actor with name recognition on a new show. So far they have hit almost ALL of the major beats why do you think that the show won't continue to do so? I am not really qualified to discuss the show in detail, and I think we're not supposed to anyhow. But I am certainly aware of changes have been made. It seems to me that many of these changes have the potential to be quite serious. How serious are these changes? Impossible to tell. Because in a completely-unfinished story, how can I tell which plot points are important and which are unimportant? You seem to be assuming that those points they have NOT changed are important, and those they HAVE changed are unimportant. You may be right. But I think you assume too much on insufficient data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: I am not really qualified to discuss the show in detail, and I think we're not supposed to anyhow. But I am certainly aware of changes have been made. It seems to me that many of these changes have the potential to be quite serious. How serious are these changes? Impossible to tell. Because in a completely-unfinished story, how can I tell which plot points are important and which are unimportant? You seem to be assuming that those points they have NOT changed are important, and those they HAVE changed are unimportant. You may be right. But I think you assume too much on insufficient data. We aren't on the same page or I am not explaining myself well, all I am trying to point out is that the end game will be similar as will any massive reveals like R+L=J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2 hours ago, RobOsevens said: This is my point to ChillyPolly, who thinks the show can (they probably can) and will (they won't imo) change whatever they want going forward. Actually, I have no idea whether they will or not. I merely objected to the assumption that IF the books and the show have widely different endings, it will be the result of GRRM changing his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Just now, ChillyPolly said: Actually, I have no idea whether they will or not. I merely objected to the assumption that IF the books and the show have widely different endings, it will be the result of GRRM changing his mind. Fair enough, I just don't see the point in the show changing from what they have been told will happen as they have been pretty successful so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, RobOsevens said: We aren't on the same page or I am not explaining myself well, all I am trying to point out is that the end game will be similar as will any massive reveals like R+L=J I don't assume R+L=J. I think it likely but by no means certain. Since I don't know what surprises GRRM has in store, I have no idea whether HBO will want to do the same thing. Yeah, sure. HBO will probably pander to whatever they think the fans want. But if GRRM has something else in mind, and HBO thinks it won't go over well, they won't do it. It's their show. Their money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: Actually, I have no idea whether they will or not. I merely objected to the assumption that IF the books and the show have widely different endings, it will be the result of GRRM changing his mind. Just now, ChillyPolly said: I don't assume R+L=J. I think it likely but by no means certain. Since I don't know what surprises GRRM has in store, I have no idea whether HBO will want to do the same thing. Yeah, sure. HBO will probably pander to whatever they think the fans want. But if GRRM has something else in mind, and HBO thinks it won't go over well, they won't do it. It's their show. Their money. Fair enough we have different opinions obviously I'm just trying to point out that I don't see why they would change (drastically) from the books (other than to make the story less complex and fit into 10 hours a year) they have been very successful so far in following GRRM's lead. GRRM has killed main characters and didnt pander to fans as most saw Robb as the stereotype hero and he didnt make it, so I can't see the show changing things if they don't like what is happening, im starting to ramble but my point is the show has already followed GRRM lead in not pandering to people so I don't see why they would make massive changes to the end game that change the outcome from what GRRM has told them will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: Actually, I have no idea whether they will or not. I merely objected to the assumption that IF the books and the show have widely different endings, it will be the result of GRRM changing his mind. 4 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: I don't assume R+L=J. I think it likely but by no means certain. Since I don't know what surprises GRRM has in store, I have no idea whether HBO will want to do the same thing. Yeah, sure. HBO will probably pander to whatever they think the fans want. But if GRRM has something else in mind, and HBO thinks it won't go over well, they won't do it. It's their show. Their money. Fair enough we have different opinions obviously I'm just trying to point out that I don't see why they would change (drastically) from the books (other than to make the story less complex and fit into 10 hours a year) they have been very successful so far in following GRRM's lead. GRRM has killed main characters and didnt pander to fans as most saw Robb as the stereotype hero and he didnt make it, so I can't see the show changing things if they don't like what is happening, im starting to ramble but my point is the show has already followed GRRM lead in not pandering to people so I don't see why they would make massive changes to the end game that change the outcome from what GRRM has told them will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobOsevens Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 7 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: Actually, I have no idea whether they will or not. I merely objected to the assumption that IF the books and the show have widely different endings, it will be the result of GRRM changing his mind. 4 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: I don't assume R+L=J. I think it likely but by no means certain. Since I don't know what surprises GRRM has in store, I have no idea whether HBO will want to do the same thing. Yeah, sure. HBO will probably pander to whatever they think the fans want. But if GRRM has something else in mind, and HBO thinks it won't go over well, they won't do it. It's their show. Their money. Fair enough we have different opinions obviously I'm just trying to point out that I don't see why they would change (drastically) from the books (other than to make the story less complex and fit into 10 hours a year) they have been very successful so far in following GRRM's lead. GRRM has killed main characters and didnt pander to fans as most saw Robb as the stereotype hero and he didnt make it, so I can't see the show changing things if they don't like what is happening, im starting to ramble but my point is the show has already followed GRRM lead in not pandering to people so I don't see why they would make massive changes to the end game that change the outcome from what GRRM has told them will occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Not going to take any risk here: R+L = J Brienne = Dunk's descendant the Hound = the Gravedigger. I also like Brienne as the Younger and More Beautiful "...", but I think Dany is more likely, or a combination of Marg/Sansa/Dany/Arianne/Brienne... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 16 hours ago, HairGrowsBack said: Not going to take any risk here: R+L = J Brienne = Dunk's descendant the Hound = the Gravedigger. I'd say you're taking at least some risk with #1, and I am fairly convinced #2 is wrong. Look for some tall kid, of fairly low birth, who had contact with the royal family back in the day when Dunk was still lord commander of the Kingsguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairGrowsBack Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 2 minutes ago, ChillyPolly said: I'd say you're taking at least some risk with #1, and I am fairly convinced #2 is wrong. Look for some tall kid, of fairly low birth, who had contact with the royal family back in the day when Dunk was still lord commander of the Kingsguard. Well, there's Dunk's shield in Tarth's armory, both characters have tons of parallels (personality, squire, true knights but not really knights, "I dreamed of you"...). We know now that Brienne has recent Targ ancestry, and I'm thinking it is very likely that Dunk hooked up with one of Aegon's sisters who ended up herself marrying into Tarth (and passing of the child as Lord Tarth's ?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChillyPolly Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 8 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said: Well, there's Dunk's shield in Tarth's armory, both characters have tons of parallels (personality, squire, true knights but not really knights, "I dreamed of you"...). We know now that Brienne has recent Targ ancestry, and I'm thinking it is very likely that Dunk hooked up with one of Aegon's sisters who ended up herself marrying into Tarth (and passing of the child as Lord Tarth's ?). One can imagine many ways in which Dunk's shield ended up in Lord Tarth's armory. We can also imagine ways in which Dunk's son would have been passed off as Lord Tarth's. But there is no logical rational reason to connect these things. Brienne does not assume this shield belongs to an ancestor. Why should we? Meanwhile, everyone ignores the very tall kid who was a skilled tournament knight, and who had contact with the royal family during Aegon V's reign, and who, given the timing of his doomed love affair with a certain Targaryen princess, may actually be the true father of Prince Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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