little spiders Posted October 12, 2014 Share Posted October 12, 2014 His description of the Others reminds me of Tolkiens elves.Maybe the comet that came when the dragons were born brought the magic back and the Others are more sensitive to its presence so they came back before it was visable to everyone else. That would fit in with what the warlock stated. They just connected it to the wrong thing. That was the impression I got when I first read the series. The comet was brought up so many times ot surly had some significance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyria Dondarrion Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm not a fan of 'the Others are not evil, only misunderstood theory'. Neither I am prone to giving too much complexity where there is none.I think the Others are exactly what they seem, i.e. a force supernatural beings that hate life in general. They are a mysterious threat to human existance, a storm looming in the horizon. It's actually the unknown what makes the books so good in my opinion.They do not know/care about kings of the IT. Their timing is due to the coming of another long winter.There is no Great Other (why do people take what Mel says at face value?), R'hllor doesn't exit either. They are invented by humans who need to personify magic, the unknown.The CotF are enemies of the Others, as the latter kill anybody who is alive and the Children love nature. The CotF are no more, nor less evil than any other magic users. Any kind of magic needs human sacrifice as the price, we can conclude as much.The Night's King story should be taken with a grain of salt too. In the present-day story Stannis is the Night's King only for the Red religion. The Night's King sacrificed to the Others, probably convinced by some priestess. The centuries of storytelling made it into the story that we heard from Old Nan.That said, I have a theory of my own.The whights might be corpses warged by the Others. I mean that might be what reanimates them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 (Sorry, the system is not letting me quote for some reason). * * * Mitt Baratheon in post 85 wrote: I checked out some scans and the comic book Others are FAR closer to what I imagined from the books than the topless bearded blue zombies of HBO. * * * LOL! I'm convinced HBO pulled a switch on us. Dig out your DVDs and go back to the prologue of season one, episode one, with Will, Gared and Ser Waymar. We book readers were expecting Ser Waymar to be killed by a white walker with a sword, so when the large topless desiccated-looking man with a sword and with glowing blue eyes uses a sword to decapitate Waymar we all think - "Oooh, is that a white walker? Gee, that's sure different from what I expected. They must not have had enough money in the special effects budget. Oh, well." No! It was a fake-out! D & D switched it so TV Waymar and TV Gared were both killed by zombie-wights and not white walkers. It's only at the very end of that sequence when the big guy that killed TV Gared is walking toward TV Will that we hear a particular sound effect for the first time - that cracking ice sound that the books say is the language of the white walkers. That was the sound of "the cavalry coming to the rescue" to save TV Will from the nasty killer zombie-wights. We only heard the white walkers arrive on the scene, but never saw them! Every scene involving the white walkers is a 'who's on first' style display of miscommunication, but GRRM intended it that way. ;) edited a typo edited again - My apologies, won't talk about the TV show in the book forum again. Sorry! Sorry, you're wrong. Another Other is shown in the TV show, the one killed by Sam, and it looks just like the blue zombie other from the prologue. We know it's an Other and not a Wight because the dragonglass dagger makes it dissolve - dragonglass does not have that effect on wights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 As for theories, I'm fully on board with the idea that the White Walkers are formerly human Ice Priest/Magic User types, an Ice equivalent of Mel or Moqorro. When you kill a White Walker, it is reduced to a puddle of water. I expect if Mel is ever killed, she will be reduced to a pile of ash. A Greenseer or a Green Man would be the Earth magic equivalent. The Rhoyne excerpt of tWoIaF reveals water wizards. Dany mentions stormsingers and aeromancers in aGoT, which could be air/wind/storm equivalents. I suspect that Brandon the Builder was originally of the same people that the White Walkers came from, but turned his cloak and fought against them. (The proto Others and the proto Starks were the same folks.) That's why the Starks were called the Kings of Winter by people south of the Wall. I reject the idea that the CotF created the Others, are in league with them, or some became them. The CotF are Earth Singers, and do not wield Ice. The White Walkers resemble humans, not CotF. I think that overall amounts of Ice magic and Fire magic are equal, but they normally neutralize each other (like a positive and a negative ion bound together). The Rise of Valyria and the Long Winter probably coincided; as the Valyrians mastered Fire magic and the Others mastered Ice magic, the two processes fed on each other. The current world problems are caused by too much free Fire and Ice magic. Excess Ice magic has been locked up in the Wall since it was built. (The Wall is not an Ice barrier used against Ice magic, but a CotF designed Earth magic based trap for Ice magic.) Excess Fire magic has been out of control since the Doom of Valyria. The way to beat the Others is to somehow bring all that Ice and Fire magic together so that they neutralize each other. But these are just guesses for the time being. EAT - grammar, spelling fixes I agree with most of what you said, though considering the walkers might be changed humans there must have been some sort of beginning. Almost all the magic in the series humans use, have a beginning from a supernatural creature or person. For instance the the First Men got the art of green seeing and warging from the children, the Valyrians obtained their magic from dragons via the 14 flames. I don't think humans obtained this ice power themselves, and I believe that's where the theories of the CotF being the ones that gave men that ice power, or some sort of winter version of the CotF gave men that power come from. The CotF may be singers of the earth, though some of their powers have other elements such as the hammer of waters, so I might not be farfetched to assume they (or a subset of them) have access to winter magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesOfHouseMurphy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Here is my own theory about the Others: After the war between the First men and the Children of the forest, there was a peace made on the Isle of faces. But, not all of the CotF accepted the peace terms. There was some renegade group of the CotF which rejected the peace, because they wanted revenge against their fallen brethren. So, they sought up a new source of power in the Lands of always winter, and they transformed into a more powerful beings for one purpose, to wipe out all humans from Westeros. I actually really like this theorie, no evidence but it definately has merit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesOfHouseMurphy Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I'm hoping there will be some good information in the world of ice and fire, at least about the long night that may give some insight into the others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 I agree with most of what you said, though considering the walkers might be changed humans there must have been some sort of beginning. Almost all the magic in the series humans use, have a beginning from a supernatural creature or person. For instance the the First Men got the art of green seeing and warging from the children, the Valyrians obtained their magic from dragons via the 14 flames. I don't think humans obtained this ice power themselves, and I believe that's where the theories of the CotF being the ones that gave men that ice power, or some sort of winter version of the CotF gave men that power come from. The CotF may be singers of the earth, though some of their powers have other elements such as the hammer of waters, so I might not be farfetched to assume they (or a subset of them) have access to winter magic. What ice powers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taenqyrhae Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 What ice powers? Probably referring to the ones that built the Wall. A 300 mile 700 foot tall wall of ice is beyond modern construction abilities, and the First Men were bronze age when it was made, it had to be magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Probably referring to the ones that built the Wall. A 300 mile 700 foot tall wall of ice is beyond modern construction abilities, and the First Men were bronze age when it was made, it had to be magic. Oh. There's something off about this, we hear this lore telling Brandon built the wall but we haven't seen any other human with ice powers "nowadays". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Oh. There's something off about this, we hear this lore telling Brandon built the wall but we haven't seen any other human with ice powers "nowadays". Brandon building the Wall does not mean he had ice powers. He had help. For one thing, the CotF probably told him how to do that. For another, giants were involved. He also is said to have built Winterfell and Storm's End and neither one of them is made of ice. Dude had a gift for architecture, and help from the little green men. However, the "Kings of Winter" might have had something going on. I'm thinking like Marshmallow in Frozen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 What ice powers? The ice powers of the white walkers, GRRM said they can do things with ice humans can't do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The ice powers of the white walkers, GRRM said they can do things with ice humans can't do. Oh ok :D. I thought we were talking about humans with these kind of powers. I've never searched much for these kings of winter to be honest, but I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Oh ok :D. I thought we were talking about humans with these kind of powers. I've never searched much for these kings of winter to be honest, but I agree. I was in a way :p, since I personally believe white walkers are humans that have been changed by ice magic similar to how Mel has been changed by fire magic. So only humans that have undergone that change have access to that magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I was in a way :P, since I personally believe white walkers are humans that have been changed by ice magic similar to how Mel has been changed by fire magic. So only humans that have undergone that change have access to that magic. Martin really has said they are a different form of being rather than human... But, Mel is still pretty much a human after all, while the white walkers really seem like another kind of creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaBaratheon Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 I was thinking about how the arrival of humans in the Americas caused an extinction of Pleistocene megafauna like the dire wolf and the mammoth, and how in Westeros those animals are usually only found north of the Wall. It made me think that maybe the Others are there to make sure humans don't wipe out all those animals - maybe the CotF created the Wall and the Others to protect the far north from the human invaders. The Others might even be a splinter group from the original Nights Watch, cold-adapted super rangers for hunting down humans who made it past the Wall.I'm sorry, but I just don't buy the tree-hugging, environmentalist ice demons. They kill and make wights out of humans and animals alike. I doubt they're just misunderstood PETA folks, looking to save the wildlife from the big bad humans. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazfemur Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Erm... ah.... AHEM! (I should really do something about this frequent cough lately):http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/116209-spoilers-all-two-nights-watchtheir-true-history;-the-others-purpose;-tnk;-etc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 Martin really has said they are a different form of being rather than human... But, Mel is still pretty much a human after all, while the white walkers really seem like another kind of creatures. :agree: The Others/White Walkers are not iced-over people. They are actually inspired by the Sidhe, also not people. Mel may be a fire-wight, or just a really old woman using a glamour to appear younger than she is. Have you seen the S+B=M theory? It's compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelborn Posted October 18, 2014 Share Posted October 18, 2014 :agree: The Others/White Walkers are not iced-over people. They are actually inspired by the Sidhe, also not people. Mel may be a fire-wight, or just a really old woman using a glamour to appear younger than she is. Have you seen the S+B=M theory? It's compelling. Yes I have. I love that theory :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 Martin really has said they are a different form of being rather than human... But, Mel is still pretty much a human after all, while the white walkers really seem like another kind of creatures. I guess that's possible, but what makes me think they aren't a creature on their own is that GRRM hinted at them not having a culture and also Leaf doesn't mention them when she tells Bran about all the old races in the North, she even mentions that Giants were the singers' bane so it's strange not to mention the whitewalkers, unless they are not an actual race which is what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 I guess that's possible, but what makes me think they aren't a creature on their own is that GRRM hinted at them not having a culture and also Leaf doesn't mention them when she tells Bran about all the old races in the North, she even mentions that Giants were the singers' bane so it's strange not to mention the whitewalkers, unless they are not an actual race which is what I think. GRRM's saying they don't have a culture could just mean he hasn't developed one for them. And that makes total sense given that we are not going to get an Other POV. Why go to the bother of creating another whole culture when we're not going to delve into it anyway? The have a language, a fighting protocol, and jokes. Clearly there is more to them than just floating around and killing people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.