R+L=J v. 107

[Ygrain]

I have often had thoughts that Eddard was the KOTLT because as he was young at this time he would be small of stature . People always moan about how grim looking the Starks are and without humour so it would be a good joke on his part . The Reeds remarking that 'your father hasnt told you ' and would also explain Howlands loyalty to the Starks (Ned in particular) . I know most of you seem to think it was Lyanna but for a young girl with hardly any experience to fight with a lance would be next to impossible no matter how good a horsewoman she was meant to be . And proponents of the Lyanna as the KOTLT theory can never satisfactorily explain how Lyanna had a Booming voice when the KOTLT ordered the fallen knights to chastise their squires in order to get their armour back .

Ned was 18 at HH, and never described as exceptionally short. Plus, he would have ridden in his own name, in his own armour.

Also, if Lyanna could train swords with Benjen, she could have trained something else, like riding at rings, with either Benjen or Brandon (lady Barbrey mentions her and Brandon riding the Rills, so there would have been an opportunity)

Plus, we have a twelve-year-old Elia Sand aka Lady Lance for TWOW

[Anthony Morris]

Ned was 18 at HH, and never described as exceptionally short. Plus, he would have ridden in his own name, in his own armour.Also, if Lyanna could train swords with Benjen, she could have trained something else, like riding at rings, with either Benjen or Brandon (lady Barbrey mentions her and Brandon riding the Rills, so there would have been an opportunity)

Plus, we have a twelve-year-old Elia Sand aka Lady Lance for TWOW

Well he was never described as being Tall neither iirc i dont think he would have used his own armour neither because that way he would be easily identifiable as a Stark as would Lyanna if she borrowed the armour easiest to get which would also have been Stark armour . I put the KOTLT as being Howland Reed before it being Lyanna because HR could obviously fight because he saved Neds life at the Fight at the tower of joy . i just see it being wishful thinking that it is Lyanna . And still no one can explain the KOTLT's booming voice !!!

[Ghost's Shadow]

There's also a potential clue to HOW Howland 'fought' to save Ned's life at the ToJ: the same way Meera, was it, catches Summer in her nets. I don't think that's the ideal way to fight in a full on battle?

Besides, if Lyanna is the KotLT it makes sense that Howland goes off to war with Ned, and to the ToJ to retrieve Lyanna as well: it is by defending him from those squires, from entering the lists to take on the knights those squires were with, that her troubles arose and House Stark suffered that severe blow when Rickard and Brandon were killed.

[Anthony Morris]

I know its a little off topic but did any of you guys hear that GRRM is not making anymore appearances until he has Finished TWOW ?. His next scheduled appearance is for the 5th of April 2015 ! So can we now hope that TWOW will at least have been sent for printing by April 2015???? Or am i in another Fevre Dream ;)

[sj4iy]

I believe Lyanna embodied Arya, however, I also believe she had some of Sansa's court/romanticist/lady-like character in her too.

^this. Lyanna wasn't an Arya clone. We can't just assume that she wanted to be what Arya wanted to be.

[BearQueen87]

I can no longer remember in which thread we discussed this, so I need a little help. I'm looking for all the clues hinting towards Aemon having been Jon's birth name. So far, I've got "He was no Aemon Targaryen" and Aemon the Dragonknight having been a childhood hero of Jon's.

Were there any more?

See my post two below

I have often had thoughts that Eddard was the KOTLT because as he was young at this time he would be small of stature . People always moan about how grim looking the Starks are and without humour so it would be a good joke on his part . The Reeds remarking that 'your father hasnt told you ' and would also explain Howlands loyalty to the Starks (Ned in particular) . I know most of you seem to think it was Lyanna but for a young girl with hardly any experience to fight with a lance would be next to impossible no matter how good a horsewoman she was meant to be . And proponents of the Lyanna as the KOTLT theory can never satisfactorily explain how Lyanna had a Booming voice when the KOTLT ordered the fallen knights to chastise their squires in order to get their armour back .

Ah but she had training. Remember Bran's vision? He sees Lyanna and Ben playing at it. Plus all her experience with horses.

[BearQueen87]

Well he was never described as being Tall neither iirc i dont think he would have used his own armour neither because that way he would be easily identifiable as a Stark as would Lyanna if she borrowed the armour easiest to get which would also have been Stark armour . I put the KOTLT as being Howland Reed before it being Lyanna because HR could obviously fight because he saved Neds life at the Fight at the tower of joy . i just see it being wishful thinking that it is Lyanna . And still no one can explain the KOTLT's booming voice !!!

Actually yes they can. Go to the previous iteration of this thread. Maybe around page 10. Yolkboy did a demonstration of what happens to your voice when you put something metal on your head.

ETA: i'll just link it... http://vocaroo.com/i/s0QeKTq5B8c5

ETA#2: and we don't know how Howland Reed saved Ned but we do know that Lyanna saved Howland from the squires. He didn't defend himself or fight them off. His skill at fighting doesn't appear to be sword or lance. Like Meera he's more adept with a net. And if it was Howland why would Jojen keep asking Bran, "are you sure you haven't heard this before?"

[BearQueen87]

Rhaenys_Targaryen

It was thread 87: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/113848-rlj-v-87/page-8#entry6018433

Conversation about all the Ameon stuff starts around there.

[Ghost's Shadow]

87? Holy Moly... :o

I didn't realise it was going to be that far back already.

[UnmaskedLurker]

87? Holy Moly... :o

I didn't realise it was going to be that far back already.

Time flies when you're having fun. :drunk:

[Kingmonkey]

Actually yes they can. Go to the previous iteration of this thread. Maybe around page 10. Yolkboy did a demonstration of what happens to your voice when you put something metal on your head.

Here's a rather more scientific test. Actual full-enclosing helmet rather than a metal dustbin.

[Ygrain]

Well he was never described as being Tall neither iirc i dont think he would have used his own armour neither because that way he would be easily identifiable as a Stark as would Lyanna if she borrowed the armour easiest to get which would also have been Stark armour . I put the KOTLT as being Howland Reed before it being Lyanna because HR could obviously fight because he saved Neds life at the Fight at the tower of joy . i just see it being wishful thinking that it is Lyanna . And still no one can explain the KOTLT's booming voice !!!

There's no need for him to be tall. He just cannot be of notably short stature, which he was not.

If Ned fought for Howland, he'd have no need to hide his face. He was a man grown, a lord's son, and he could joust as much as he wanted. And, given his personality, if he was defeated, he would accept it as a man, he'd never hide his true identity.

On the other hand, Lyanna being KotLT defies all customs and traditions. Even if the Stark armour was easily available for her, she wouldn't be able to use it so as not to reveal her true identity and get her family in trouble.

Also, HR saving Ned at ToJ says nothing about his fighting skills - all we know is that somehow, he prevented Arthur from killing Ned. It could have been something he said, it could have been a distraction, it could have been some dirty fighting. And, even if he did engage Arthur one on one and defeated him in a single combat, it still doesn't mean that he managed to joust well at HH, because those are two absolutely different things. Besides, we know that HR was no rider and that jousting requires good horsemanship.

[Kingmonkey]

Also, HR saving Ned at ToJ says nothing about his fighting skills - all we know is that somehow, he prevented Arthur from killing Ned. It could have been something he said, it could have been a distraction, it could have been some dirty fighting.

I'm pretty sure it's been established that Howland distracted Arthur by hurling a frog at him. Isn't that canon yet?

[Jon Weirgaryen]

V107 let that sink in for a moment

before that one, too, is gone.

[BearQueen87]

I'm pretty sure it's been established that Howland distracted Arthur by hurling a frog at him. Isn't that canon yet?

In my head it is. It's the only way I see that fight going. Make it happen, George!

[Rhaegal Targaryen]

The image of HR throwing a frog at Arthur has really disturbed me.Poor Arthur,didn't knew what got him. :spank:

[Jon Weirgaryen]

The image of HR throwing a frog at Arthur has really disturbed me.Poor Arthur,didn't knew what got him. :spank:

Poor Quentyn Martell. He was such a lovely toddler back then.

[BearQueen87]

Poor Quentyn Martell. He was such a lovely toddler back then.

HAHAHAHAHAH. Nice.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Little Quentyn? You guys are bad. :lol:

[Lord Varys]

Since I'm right now thinking a lot on the time line and other stuff, let's revisit the whole 'Ned came down from the Eyrie to Harrenhal' thing from AGoT during his tenure in the black cell:

'It was the year of the false spring, and he was eighteen again, down from the Eyrie to the tourney at Harrenhal.'

Does this quote from AGoT really make a lot of sense in light of the fact that we learn in AFfC that the Arryns regularly abandon the Eyrie from late autumn until (at least) until (early?) spring?

Considering that snows should last a lot longer up on the Giant's Lance than down in the Vale, it would make very little sense to assume that Jon Arryn would have just jumped on the chance that it may become spring and leave the Gates of the Moon for the Eyrie (i.e. before the Conclave declared the official beginning of spring) just when the snows in the Vale began to melt makes little sense indeed.

Any thoughts on that thing?