Heresy 136 The Heart of Darkness

[Phillip Frye]

While this one is a little slow I went for some fun in the other thread:

Hmm...you got no reaction from that crowd. Next time, I would recommend that you tell them how Ned Stark and Khal Drogo will simultaneously inhabit Jon Snow's body, which will later fall into a sinkhole. That always gets an interesting reaction over there.

[Phillip Frye]

Possible, but what is the connection between the Nightwatch and Craster?

The connection is between Craster and the Starks. The restriction of the naughty bits pertains to the potential of some Stark on the Wall setting himself up beyond the Wall and fathering ninety-nine cute little abominations. Some dude named Stark screwed things up and now everyone in the Night's Watch has to suffer. That's how the military works. Am I right Black Crow?

[Phillip Frye]

The fun part is when you come up with a theory that ends up explaining all those irritating loose ends. The theory I mentioned ends up explaining what that book was that Roose burned and why Littlefinger is interested in those tapestries from the Red Keep!

Gotta finish it... And gotta get off the net now, so I won't be taking up any more space on a "Heart of Darkness" thread. :P See ya 'round. :)

Some time ago, I put forward the theory that the contents of the burned book foretold the result of there being no Stark in Winterfell. What do you reckon? I am all ears.

[wolfmaid7]

Oh its certainly a question of interpretation, but Old Nan's story is still the only framework we have to work with.

I agree to an extent we have her stories as well as the the other tales,past down over thousands of years .But,ee also have what's going on now and the questions that have arisen from the gapping hole in the stories period that can add light to events when we take a retrospective look at past events.E.g what really happened when the NK was overthrown,was he as evil as the tales make out,or was he demonized after he was betrayed?

I am not convinced that the children were allied with or the masters of the original Others, rather they were friends before they became Others. Raising the dead must be a big no go with the children the way I interpret their society. (and yes wolfmaid I know you think they don't raise them, I disagree). I believe the reason the children did not fight the Others was the Pact.

You are well within your rights to disagree, just as i am incline to acquiesce to the fact that you disagree but not to your conclusion on the matter.On another note i don't believe the COTF are or were masters of "any" WWs.As i stated i don't believe the COTF or the wws for that matter has that type of juice but based on Leaf's statement to Bran about calling Ned back from the dead leads me to believe they know more about the circumstances surrounding that.

[Phillip Frye]

E.g what really happened when the NK was overthrown,was he as evil as the tales make out,or was he demonized after he was betrayed?

Both.

[Black Crow]

I agree to an extent we have her stories as well as the the other tales,past down over thousands of years .But, we also have what's going on now and the questions that have arisen from the gapping hole in the stories period that can add light to events when we take a retrospective look at past events.E.g what really happened when the NK was overthrown,was he as evil as the tales make out,or was he demonized after he was betrayed?

...On another note i don't believe the COTF are or were masters of "any" WWs.As i stated i don't believe the COTF or the wws for that matter has that type of juice but based on Leaf's statement to Bran about calling Ned back from the dead leads me to believe they know more about the circumstances surrounding that.

I think that we're fundamentally in agreement on this one and its really a question of emphasis and detail.

It may be significant that at no point is the Nights King referred to as evil. We're told that he knew no fear and that was his undoing [Jon?] that he took up with a blue-eyed white lady [Val?], ruled for 13 years [long time] and afterwards it was found he and his men had been "sacrificing to the Others" [ie; doing a Craster], but he's never described or referred to as evil.

As to "masters", I still believe that the changeling magic originated with the children and the power to raise the dead, but the controlling of it is a different matter. If we skip across to the other side we have Mel and Moqorro who appear to be the fiery counterparts of the walkers, but who turned them? That line in the show Series One episode penned by GRRM about the walkers "touching" and the way Craster's last son was touched in this last series suggests that the walkers [and extension their fiery equivalents] can now do it themselves, but somebody or something must have started it off.

[Black Crow]

I am not convinced that the children were allied with or the masters of the original Others, rather they were friends before they became Others. Raising the dead must be a big no go with the children the way I interpret their society. (and yes wolfmaid I know you think they don't raise them, I disagree). I believe the reason the children did not fight the Others was the Pact.

And what Pact would that be? The only one we're told off started thousands of years of peace and amity until it was broken by the Andals; yet notwithstanding the impression given by Maester Luwin that peace and amity counted for nothing in the long night when the three-fingered tree huggers very conspicuously stood aside while the walkers stravaighed about clearing men out of the north.

[redrose]

There is only one family with the political and military might that can shut down all knowledge of the nights king. On a much much much smaller scale The Ned shows us how the Starks do it when Catlyn brings up Ashara Daynes name. IIRC it was the only time that she feared The Ned as the Starks know loose lips sink ships so to speak.

Now as we all know the Stark in Winterfell had an ally in bringing down the nights king in Joruman. The question I have is why after being allies in order to defeat the nights King did Joramun feel the need to jump over the wall and do battle with his once ally the Starks?

There is no mention of what happened to the nights king after he was deposed. Did he go north, hence why Joruman climbed the wall to get away from him OR did he go south back to Winterfell and allow the Starks to shut down all knowledge of his existence?

[Urrax2]

... That line in the show Series One episode penned by GRRM about the walkers "touching" ...

Remind me?

[Melifeather]

I rather had the impression that part of the oath was intended to prevent them setting up as Craster and fathering sons to be changelings; after all when the Nights King was overthrown it was found that he and his men had been "sacrificing" to the Others.

I was just thinking, and it could go either way depending on George decides to play it.The dude( Jon that is) more times than most can keep a cap on his emotions.Sure there are times when it emerges a bit and you're asking yourself why is he angry? And there are times when one thinks you would see eruption on his part and he's at still as a pond.

Old Nan and everyone else who was not there? BC we know there are two sides to everystory.Hell one man's savage/terroists/ etc is another man's freedom fighter and hero. I will reserve judgement on them being evil and mean when Bran reveals both side of the story courtesy the Weirnet.I can't in all honesty call them evil when (1) We've had only had a disjointed,incomplete and biased retelling of what happened from one party and (2) Evidence and scenes with them that are very ambiguous that causes one to question the label of "The big bad".

More or less i agree with the LH idea that a deal was hatched though my idea on it and the role paties played are a bit different . I'm 50% in agreement that the wws are humans that were convinced/tricked or volunteered to become wws. I also agree and believe that the NW probably only had those 13 dudes on the Wall up the NK was betrayed and as you say it the present NW took over.That however,doesn't negate that maybe the true Night's watch is still on duty because "Night" has gathered again and their watch has begun.

I think Old Nan's story is about how the Nights Watch was overthrown. The Last Hero and his 12 followers were likely the first Nights Watch but initiation to the Watch was a real sacrifice. It was done before a weirwood heart tree and the "brother" gave his actual life to become a White Walker. I think my thoughts are in line with Wolfmaid's description above. Maybe a re-examination of the oath is in order with the express idea that it represents the process to becoming a White Walker.

[Black Crow]

Remind me?

GRRM wrote the episode in which Othor is discovered dead and is brought inside on a sledge. Various members of the Watch gather round and they talk about wights. Sam says they are raised when touched by the white walkers and says he read about it in a book. Given GRRM's involvement I'd take that as slightly dodgy canon, but its clearly the show-runners' inspiration [if no more] for the "Nights King" touching Craster's last son.

[Black Crow]

I think Old Nan's story is about how the Nights Watch was overthrown. The Last Hero and his 12 followers were likely the first Nights Watch but initiation to the Watch was a real sacrifice. It was done before a weirwood heart tree and the "brother" gave his actual life to become a White Walker. I think my thoughts are in line with Wolfmaid's description above. Maybe a re-examination of the oath is in order with the express idea that it represents the process to becoming a White Walker.

I'm not convinced. The number 13 is clearly significant to the story given that there were 13 heroes and that the Nights King ruled for 13 years, but otherwise the reason why the heroes went into the dead lands was because the walkers were already stravaighing about with their armies of the slain, and said heroes were looking for the help of the children to use their magic to stop them - or as we've speculated in the past cry Pax.

So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds-”

There's nothing in there to suggest the heroes were sacrificed before a heart tree.

As to the Nights Watch oath, there really is too much about Fire to suggest becoming a walker.

[Urrax2]

GRRM wrote the episode in which Othor is discovered dead and is brought inside on a sledge. Various members of the Watch gather round and they talk about wights. Sam says they are raised when touched by the white walkers and says he read about it in a book. Given GRRM's involvement I'd take that as slightly dodgy canon, but its clearly the show-runners' inspiration [if no more] for the "Nights King" touching Craster's last son.

Clearly? Hmmmmm ...

[Black Crow]

Clearly? Hmmmmm ...

Well D&D said the incident as depicted was inspired by what was in the books, which gives us "the boys brothers...Craster's sons" and at a stretch the "Nights King", but the touching business is only referenced in that GRRM episode.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

And what Pact would that be? The only one we're told off started thousands of years of peace and amity until it was broken by the Andals; yet notwithstanding the impression given by Maester Luwin that peace and amity counted for nothing in the long night when the three-fingered tree huggers very conspicuously stood aside while the walkers stravaighed about clearing men out of the north.

This is also a problem I have with the "Pact" it doesn't make sense within the context of Old Nan's story, Maester Luwin stated that the Pact endured as long as the First Men held their Kingdoms, however they lost their kingdoms during the Long Night far before the Andals came.

And as you stated the CotF also just watched idly.

[Urrax2]

Well D&D said the incident as depicted was inspired by what was in the books, which gives us "the boys brothers...Craster's sons" and at a stretch the "Nights King", but the touching business is only referenced in that GRRM episode.

I've never seen how the show sequence with the baby confirmed in any way that the popsicles are "the boy's brothers" or "Craster's sons." All it showed was that this creepy fellow, who may or may not himself be a popsicle, poked the baby with his fingernail and the baby's eyes turned blue and it may have frozen up. That could mean many possible things.

But this has been discussed before so I'll lay off.

[Black Crow]

It has, but all I was doing here was piecing together how D&D sourced that scene, whether you agree with their interpretation of those sources is indeed a different matter.

[The Puffin Has Three Heads]

Yes, I can recall you mentioning this or parts of it before. The Stark connection to Winter [and the Others] is pretty deeply rooted in Heresy, but I'd say that the break, marked by the overthrow of the Nights King and the original Watch, goes much further back than the time of the dragons which is far too recent in terms of a cover-up of such a magnitude as you're suggesting.

And therein lies our problem. We've accepted all the legends as "fact" and have been trying to shoehorn current happenings into the framework that the legends suggested, instead of looking for patterns in current happenings, attitudes and prejudices and letting them create our frame of reference.

(I've figured out how to quote and cut & paste - use Firefox instead of IE!) :P

There's a video on Youtube of GRRM at a convention, (I don't know which one) doing a question and answer session with fans. It was before "Dangerous Women" came out. The full video is 29:44 long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCaZWMppfp0

At first he talked about how he had written 90,000 words about the Dance of the Dragons, and how his co-editor Gardner Dozois cut it down to 30,000 words for inclusion in Dangerous Women, as "The Princess and the Queen," and how the full story will appear at some point.

@0:43

It's a little like history, you know? You start reading about history, and maybe you know a certain amount about the Hundred Years War, and then you read books about the Hundred Years War, and you find out more and more, and you find out things are never as simple as they appear, and there are always secondary characters, and tertiary characters who are fascinating, who have their brief moment on the stage. There are events that are recorded in history in contradictory ways and all of that stuff.

I had a lot of fun with that, writing some of the GRRMarillion stuff here. But uh... 'Cause it's all written as fake history, it's all written from the point of view of maesters, so in a lot of..., particularly the Dance of the Dragons stuff that I referred to. You know, my fake maester, Maester Glyndon [sic - Gyldayn] here, is drawing on three primary sources as he recounts the history of the dragons.

One of them is a book by Septon Eustace who was the septon, the Royal Septon at the High Court at the time. One of them is by a maester, a Grand Maester actually, who's drawing from the testimony of the previous Grand Maester who was involved in all of these events, and was actually executed, and he wrote this long confession trying to convince them not to chop his head off. But he failed in that attempt. But he left his rather self-serving and somewhat biased notes of the period. And then there's also a book, a somewhat scurrilous book called The Testimony of Mushroom. Mushroom was the court fool at the time, who everybody thought was a moron, but who was actually sharper than he appeared and he was making mock of everybody.

So, it was very fun writing this 'cause I get to put three versions of all the events, you know: the official event by the maester who's sort of recording it for the court, and the event of the septon which frequently has the gods intervene somehow, 'and a miracle took place' and, you know. Someone prayed and the gods answered that, you know, and Mushroom, who was always talking about who was sleeping with who, and who poisoned who, and you know, this guy was jealous of that guy, and the other guy had a very small penis...

(audience laughter)

You know, so I could get to throw the three different versions of history around, and that was a lot of fun. But you won't get that right away so you'll have to wait for that. I'm sorry. (laughs)

Continuing, later in that same video. A fan asked GRRM his opinion on the War of the Roses, and in reciting his opinions of the various kings he cheerily remarked:

@3:58

Richard the Third, who was framed. He didn't kill those princes. He wasn't a hunchback. He didn't have a withered arm. Don't believe this Tudor shit! (laughter) And they just found his body. It was in a parking lot. All this time. Who knows? In a parking lot. It's ignominious."

(Remember that quote anytime people speak of the Night's King. Don't believe this Tudor shit!)

Most significantly (to me) this was his answer when a fan asked if he would ever write more on the history of the Age of Heroes.

[Note: from my own impression of his voice and body language, he seemed to attach little importance to the question at first, although he did warm to the subject as he continued speaking.]

@12:41

Well, the Age of Heroes is uh, there's some material about it in the book, but it's, it's a long time ago and really, you know, nobody knows much about it, I mean . . . (he sighs) I tried to reflect it in some of these appendices and uh, and certainly in the World of Ice and Fire.

The viewpoint of looking back, maesters, contemporary maesters trying to reconstruct history from hundreds and thousands of years, .of events that took place hundreds and thousands of years earlier where there may be little or no written records. There may be contradictory records, oral traditions and all that. Which is something I don't think a lot of fantasy does, I mean fantasy frequently has these long-lived dynasties or histories and it's just presented to you as fact. This is what happened 23,000 years ago, and here it is.

And the truth is we don't know what happened 23,000 years ago. We hardly know what happened, you know, 200 years ago. I mean, we, even here in America, you know, we have our legends: George Washington and the Cherry Tree, Paul Bunyan and Babe the Big Blue Ox, Pecos Bill, you know.

All of these stories, and our country is like 200 years old, and yet, what's the fact behind them? Well, sometimes there is no fact behind them, it's just history getting embroidered or sometimes there is a nugget of fact, and I wanted to get that sense here.

Now the Age of Heroes, you know, has larger-than-life characters in it like Brandon the Builder, and Lann the Clever, and Durran Godsgrief, and there are these great stories about them, but, you know, who knows whether any of this ever happened or what the true story is. The maesters don't.

They're trying to construct it just like you are and I've had some fun about writing from that viewpoint in the book. You know, like the maester observed, Brandon the Builder evidently, you know, he must have lived for, like 400 years, and he traveled around Westeros, and he built everything of significance, you know, it's like (laughs) and clearly that's ludicrous, but it formulates the 'George Washington slept here' phenomenon that you see where any artifact gets attached to Charlemagne or King Arthur. I mean, travel around England and King Arthur was fucking everywhere. (audience laughter)

There are like, seven round tables and numerous castles and things like that. So, I'm trying to indicate the same thing. But am I ever going to write the real, true History of We– No, no, I'm not, you know. There were probably just a bunch of, like, Westerosi cavemen, uh (laughs) these people, so.

We don't know what happened 23,000 years ago. We hardly know what happened 200 years ago.

When I first watched this video I already had my theory that, well, quite a lot happened just 200 years ago but that it seemed to be missing from the official histories. Adult northmen seemed to leave an awful lot unsaid, as if it was dangerous or unwise to speak of such things aloud, especially around the children.

Then I saw that video. We hardly know what happened 200 years ago! GRRM must have been chuckling on the inside. He threw it in our faces!

Reread Syrio telling Arya about the Sealord's Cat, and look at everything in the books with that in mind. Does the history they tell you match the way the people react and behave? If it doesn't then the so-called history is a lie. A whole different view of the books emerges then.

[The Puffin Has Three Heads]

I could go with this, but only up to a point. Old Nan, and everyone else, has got the idea very firmly established that they were evil mean and nasty and came out of the darkness of the Long Night. Where we have a conspicuous big blank hole is in the matter of the deal made by the Last Hero to get them reined in. Here is where I suggest that the original walkers first came in as human changelings in the service of or at the very least allied to the children. As part of the price of peace the Starks were bound with them to guard the Black Gate, or at least that side of it opening on to the realms of men - until the Nights King was overthrown and the new order took over. Whether this was instigated by his brother, the Stark in Winterfell, or whether Winterfell was just the front man might be an interesting question, but while I'm very much inclined to bring this betrayal forward to the wars with the Andals, I really don't see it happening in the Targaryen era.

First of all, with regards to Old Nan. I have no idea who it was who came up with the theory that Old Nan was Lord Butterwell's unnamed Frey bride from Dunk & Egg 3, The Mystery Knight, but I'd like to give that poster a great big wet kiss.

I'd long felt that her stories reflected a southron biased view, but suggesting she was a Frey crystallized it in my head. Remember Jared Frey's account of the Red Wedding told to Manderly's court? The evil northmen had all turned into wolves and attacked the poor helpless innocent Freys. Manderly's son had allegedly sacrificed his own life to protect Old Lord Walder from the demon wolves...

Now re-read Old Nan's stories with that in mind. The attackers and the attackees are reversed, and sometimes a party that was really on one side is described as being on the other side.

No wonder Ned chides people for believing Old Nan's stories! He knows the wights and white walkers (and Others) are real, but he also knows her versions are just (ahem) Tudor shit (to borrow GRRM's phrase).

This Youtube video excerpt shows GRRM on the Canadian talk show "George Stroumboulopoulos Tonight." It was filmed before season two of the HBO show began airing. The full interview is 21:49 long. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHfip4DefG4

@6:40

Strombo – You get to explore really complex morality in these stories and great fantasy should really be about talking about the world in a bigger sense. You're doing that, aren't you, in this stuff?

GRRM – Well, I'm certainly trying to do that, yeah. That's always been one of my goals. I mean, I love fantasy. I grew up reading science fiction; I grew up reading fantasy. I love Tolkien. I read him when I was in junior high school. He had a profound effect on me. He's the father of all modern fantasy. We all are working in the shadow of the great mountain that is "The Lord of the Rings."

But that being said, Tolkien did certain things that are different than what I would do, and in the hands of some of the Tolkien imitators those things have become clichés that I think have ultimately harmed the genre and made people think that it's entertainment for children, or for particularly slow adults. (audience laughs)

@7:35

And all this stuff about the Dark Lord is rising in the north and, you know, the good guys have to get together to fight him, guys in, handsome guys in white cloaks fighting really ugly guys who dress all in black... You know the battle between good and evil, that's fine. The battle between good and evil is a universal theme, not only for fantasy but for any fiction.

But my opinion has always been that the battle between good and evil is fought within the individual human heart. All of us have the capacity for good. All of us have the capacity for evil. The same people have the capacity for doing that on different days.

You read about war heroes, who save their whole platoon, and are incredibly brave, and then they go home and they beat up their wives, or they become an alcoholic, or they become a thief, and things like that. How do you reconcile that? Well, they're human beings, and human beings are endlessly fascinating to me. And the fact that we, we do have good and evil in us that we, we can be angels and we can be monsters, and how do we make these choices? How do we go through life? And that's the stuff I love to wrestle with.

Just a bit further down, in the same interview

@12:30

GRRM - War is so central to fantasy, so much of high fantasy, and yet it's these bloodless wars, where the heroes are killing unending armies of Orcs, and the heroes themselves are not themselves ever being killed.

Strombo – You kill everybody all the time, man! You fall in love with a character and they're dead by the end of the...!

GRRM – That's true. I mean, I'm guilty of killing people. But I think if you're going to write about war and violence then show the cost. Show how ugly it is. Show both sides of it.

I wrote yesterday about how the Children of the Forest could have started the Long Night in an attempt to rid Westeros of the slash-and-burn humans, and accidentally unleashed a Magical Killer Cold that kills the living on contact and raises the dead.

Consider what would come next...

According to this theory, the CotF were in their cozy caves, but the rest of creation was suffering terribly. Whenever powerful entities fight each other, it is the small folk caught in the middle who suffer the most.

In the dark, vegetation was dying. Crops couldn't grow so there was famine. That alone would be bad enough, but the Magical Killer Cold was killing humans and animals alike, and they in turn were rising up as zombie-wights to travel by night and kill still more people and animals. The situation was desperate. As populated areas were turned into literal dead zones, something had to give.

Enter a First Man now known as the Last Hero (with his twelve friends, his dog, his horse and his sword). They set forth into the dead lands, looking for the CotF. The friends and animals died, one by one, until only the Last Hero remained, but he did find the CotF. All we've been told is that the CotF helped the Last Hero. We don't know the details – and the fact that GRRM omitted the details should make us think "Hmmm, what is he keeping from us?"

So, let's analyze the situation. Who wanted what?

The CotF wanted to be able to live in peace without being attacked and burned out by humans. They wanted respect and protection for themselves and the forests.

The Last Hero's primary concern was the survival of his people – the First Men. They needed protection from the Magical Killer Cold and protection from the deadly zombie-wights. They needed the Long Night to end so they could grow food and survive.

What could they do to help each other meet their objectives?

Perhaps the CotF used magic again - to end the Long Night - but they couldn't undo the side effects their spells had caused. The seasonal wobble remained as a magical echo from the disturbance caused by the Long Night. The Magical Killer Cold also remained, though it doesn't come every winter. It comes during some particularly bad winters, and possibly only when triggered by certain events (to discuss later).

Whenever the Magical Killer Cold does rise, any people and animals that are touched by it die, and rise up again as zombie-wights. Thus, there is an ever-present risk to humanity and other animal life which must be dealt with.

If the Last Hero wanted protection from the Magical Killer Cold and the zombie-wights, and if the CotF couldn't (or wouldn't) stop either of them, then could the CotF help humans to help themselves? Remember, the CotF needed protection too - from any slash-and-burn humans.

I believe the Last Hero pledged himself and his progeny (he gave his seed, so to speak) to take up the duty of protecting the CotF as well as his own people.

Let's pause for a moment to consider the practical implications of this. If you are a human being like the Last Hero, it's doable to pledge yourself to fight other human beings like the Red Lot. With a sufficiently large force you might be able to fight off a horde of zombie-wights, but how do you fight against cold? Magical Killer Cold can quickly freeze you to death and you'd become one of the zombie-wights yourself. You could never destroy all the zombie-wights because the Magical Killer Cold would keep making new ones. The job would require constant vigilance, and is simply beyond the ability of ordinary humans.

In order to perform this function, you'd need to have some sort of resistance or immunity to the Magical Killer Cold. It will kill an ordinary human being, but perhaps the CotF had magic that could give an ordinary human (and his descendents) some resistance to it. Whatever oath the Last Hero swore that bound his descendents to protect the old races and the realms of men also invoked a magical affinity for cold among his descendents. "Magical Icy DNA," added to an ordinary human's genetic make-up, could even make him like the cold, and draw strength from it.

When conditions make it necessary, such humans could even completely transform into a being of ice who could operate in the midst of the Magical Killer Cold and survive. Such beings are popularly known as white walkers. In fact, when the Magical Killer Cold rose and the zombie-wights were afoot in the land you'd need a force of white walkers / white rangers who would dedicate their lives to the protection of the realms of men.

Most of the Last Hero's descendents (basically the Starks, but also other northerners who carry some Magical Icy Stark DNA) will live fairly normal human lives. It comes as no surprise, however, that they don't like the heat. Starks prefer to stand naked at night in front of open bedroom windows while the cold winds blow around them and their southron Tully wives sit in bed with their blankets pulled up to their chins… You know the type.

However, when the Magical Killer Cold winds rise (when "the white winds blow"), then it's time for the white walkers / white rangers to go to work. Remember how Old Nan said they came for the first time during the Long Night. They did – in response to it. A lot of people have assumed they caused the Long Night, but there's no evidence of that, and the mysteries of their behavior are better explained this way.

The zombie-wights seem to be dormant during daylight hours and active at night, so it makes sense that the white walkers / white rangers have to be active during the night, too. Therefore, the white walkers / white rangers are the original Night's Watch.

What is their job description? Essentially, to protect people – to protect the realms of men.

1) When the Magical Killer Cold starts rising, the icy white walkers / white rangers have to travel out with it and try to keep living people clear of the danger.

2) If the Magical Killer Cold does succeed in touching & killing people, or if it comes across people or animals that have already died some other way, it will cause them to rise up as dangerous zombie-wights, so the white walkers / white rangers have to herd those zombie-wights away from populated areas.

Some of you will argue – that's not what happened in the book! Remember the Fist! Hold on, I'll get to that, but I need to lay the groundwork first. Keep calm, follow the logic, and keep reading.

3) When the Magical Killer Cold surges, and the white walkers / white rangers have a wide area of land they must patrol, they may need new recruits to handle the extra workload, depending on how depleted their own ranks have become in comparison to the scope of the job at hand.

As descendents of the Last Hero who had pledged his seed to the cause, families with Magical Icy DNA had a duty to provide recruits to the Original Icy Night's Watch, - at the weirwood door down the well in the Nightfort. Events of 250-200 years ago caused a cataclysm in the north, and as a result families south of the Wall are no longer providing the necessary recruits. (More on what happened 250 years ago, later).

When the Magical Killer Cold is rising and the white walkers / white rangers own numbers are insufficient, they may go visiting qualified families to solicit desperately-needed new recruits. We see this happening with Craster, whose blood carries a terrible curse – the necessary Magical Icy DNA and the magical duty to honor the Last Hero's pledge. The fact that "Craster's sons" are returning to the old homestead with such frequency indicates their personnel shortage has become desperate.

Side note: Craster's righteous attitude toward the Starks comes from knowing he's doing the duty that they're supposed to be doing, so they have no right to look down on him! Mance Rayder and the other wildlings all know.

In the current Night's Watch, and in the north (south of the Wall) these things are no longer spoken of openly (because of events of 250 years ago). Jeor Mormont and some of the rangers do know about it, or at least have heard whispered stories, which is why they let Craster continue giving his sons to the cold gods, and why they treat Craster with respect and deference even as he treats them with utter contempt.

Given the tremendous importance of having a source of recruits during such troubled times, you can believe the white walkers / white rangers place Craster's Keep at the top of the protection priority list. No wonder Craster was so confident his home was safe. No zombie-wights will be coming to bother his home – his sons will make sure of that.

Returning to the narrative framework –

4) The white walkers / white rangers can travel along with the Magical Killer Cold (if there are enough of them to provide proper coverage), but they probably do not have the ability to redirect its course, or to stop the Magical Killer Cold from seeping into new areas, except by building a barrier to the cold, otherwise known as the Wall. Note this GRRM interview, in which the white walkers / white rangers are being referred to using the (purposefully) confusing term Others:

Shaw: Do you know what substance an Other sword is made from.

Martin: Ice. But not like regular old ice. The Others can do things with ice that we can't imagine and make substances of it.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051103091500/nrctc.edu/fhq/vol1iss3/00103009.htm/

In physics, heat rises and cold sinks, so the Magical Killer Cold would be expected to creep along the ground…and when it hits a big old icy Wall it would be like a mudslide hitting a gigantic K-rail. The Magical Killer Cold would thus be confined to the lands north of the magical ice Wall, which was most likely built by these "Others" – White Walkers - who "can do things with ice that we can't imagine."

The original purpose of the Wall was to protect the populated lands to the south from the Magical Killer Cold and a zombie-wight apocalypse. People who chose to remain living north of the Wall, or who chose to move north of the Wall, were given what protection was possible, but during those winters when the Magical Killer Cold rose, they were taking a real risk by living up there.

5) Once a human is transformed into a being of ice – a white walker / white ranger – there may not be a way to change back again. During periods of time when the Magical Killer Cold is dormant and no zombie-wights are out causing trouble, the white walkers / white rangers live in the Land of Always Winter.

Who leads the Original Icy Night's Watch? The Night's King. (The title "King of Winter" seems likely synonymous, but we're still waiting for GRRM to clarify that point).

6) When the white walkers / white rangers receive an order from their leader the Night's King, they are tasked with obeying the order, trusting that their leader knows what he is doing. In order to protect the CotF and their own people from the Red Lot, from slavers, or from other outside forces the white walkers / white rangers may sometimes be called upon to attack humans, or to herd the zombie-wights into an attack on humans.

Sadly, the current Night's King, Jon Snow, is completely clueless about the white walkers / white rangers, clueless about his own standing as Night's King, and he unintentionally and unknowingly signaled for them to attack the Fist of the First Men – Yes He Did! It's In The Text! The white walkers /white rangers responded to the signal, herded zombie-wights into place, and dutifully carried out the attack, as ordered. It's a sad example of the fog of war. Plus, they truly did have reason to believe that this attack on the current ersatz Night's Watch was deliberate and appropriate.

This part is still just the framework of the theory, there's so much more, but again, I have to get off the net now. (Also, BC, if you feel this is not the proper thread for this, I certainly understand.)

[QueenOfVibe]

Wow.