Quick Theory: There Must Always Be A Stark In Winterfell

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Look at the name of Winterfell.

I think that it is something to do with a ward or something along those lines.

A blizzard also originates from the south (near Winterfell), when it would usually come from the north.

Why is the weather on the Wall clear, but it snowstorms further south? Magic.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

I have had the thought that the phrase, along with 'winter is coming' were words from a soothsayer. Through the millenia the important parts are forgotten leaving only a mantra for the Starks.

[BearQueen87]

Who's to say the white walkers didn't cause the dragon eggs to awaken? If we're arguing one balances out the other, that would seem to cut both ways.

Oh I agree that Others being in the world helps with Dragon-from-Stone hatching. The other part of the equation is Dany herself.

I've seen that said about the birth of Dany's dragons; that they are the other side of some balance-equation, but the timeline doesn't fit for re-emergence of the Others. The birth of Rhaegar, as you suggest, might be better for timeline...

But the Valyrians had dragons for millenia. The Targaryens brought dragons to Westeros (as far as Dragonstone) over 400 years ago. Aegon I et al conquered Westeros with dragons 300 years ago. Queen Alysanne Targaryen flew her dragon Silverwing all the way up to the Wall (hard to believe she didn't take a joy ride farther north) about 200 years ago. The Others slept through all this but woke up when some philanderer was born half a continent away?

See this is the big stumbling block for me....

Like I said above, the dragons existing isn't the thing--it's the way this metaphorical dragon was brought into the world: at the same time tons of blood was being shed in Summerhall.

ETA: also, whatever was happening at Summerhall, it was much more than "Targ party." There was some serious magics going on

1) I think it's somewhere along that, though Bran said Old Nan's tale ended with an intervention with the CotF so I wonder if the children are in league with the others?

2) I think it's possible Ned may have also missed out on the knowledge, cause Rickard and Brandon were killed at the same time and never expected Ned to inherit it. It may be something passed on from Lord to heir. Ned may know that there is something more to it but perhaps he doesn't know the whole truth since he was raised in the Vale. I think Benjen may be a wild card.

1) Well I certainly think so (that'll make for interesting conversation in Bran Re-read :) )

2) Agreed. If Rickard knew, he didn't get a chance to pass it down to Ned

[Shadow Cat 75]

Maybe the Starks have the blood of the others in them and the reason there must always be a Stark in Winterfell is because something or someone is being held in the Crypts of Winterfell. I have heard ideas ranging from ice dragons to the Queen of the Others which where taken when the Starks/Wildlings took down the Night's King.

It may actually make sense that if the Queen of the Others is down in the crypts that the reason why the Others are invading is to get her back.

If it is Ice Dragons maybe the blood of the others in the Starks could control them.

[Blazfemur]

I think it's definetly something along those lines, "A stark must always be in winterfell" almost sounds like a warning.

1) I think it's somewhere along that, though Bran said Old Nan's tale ended with an intervention with the CotF so I wonder if the children are in league with the others?

2) I think it's possible Ned may have also missed out on the knowledge, cause Rickard and Brandon were killed at the same time and never expected Ned to inherit it. It may be something passed on from Lord to heir. Ned may know that there is something more to it but perhaps he doesn't know the whole truth since he was raised in the Vale. I think Benjen may be a wild card.

That's wher ei think we'll have our first disagreement. Old nan was telling bran the tale, and said TLH was overrun by Others, overwhelmed. That they came on him, and the air grew so cold it snapped his blade, before being overwhelmed. Then Robb interrupts.

TWOIAF states he did get to the children. Old nan would suggest he didnt, unless she was going to get to something before being interrupted.

I'm a follower of Fomas' beliefs that Others were nothing more than a brached-off tribe of First Men. But then how did they get their powers? Could COTF enhance first men, and make them Others? If we look at THAT episode of GOT, The Night's King gives that baby The Ice Gift, and makes it an Other. Power can be transferred apparently. Im thinking these First Men either TOOK magic, or it was GIVEN to them.

Regardless, i dont want to make this another NK debate, plenty of those right now as it is. Back on topic.

[Lord Stark]

Look at the name of Winterfell.

I think that it is something to do with a ward or something along those lines.

A blizzard also originates from the south (near Winterfell), when it would usually come from the north.

Why is the weather on the Wall clear, but it snowstorms further south? Magic.

So snow and blizzards have to come from the north? If that is the case then there must be magic in the real world because the north east of America just got hammered by snow storms, and yet the east coast of Canada did not. I myself work 8 hours north of where I live, and many years I have more snow and worse weather at home then at work.

Snow storms can hit anywhere, they had hit a town in the south, be warm and sunny in a town an hour north, and snowy again in a town further north. When it snows in the south, it does not mean that everything north of that is snowing, and worse.

After reading the world book, I'm more convinced then every that the sayings of, there must away be a Stark in Winterfell, is a political statement, and such, and by no means has anything magical about it.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

So snow and blizzards have to come from the north? If that is the case then there must be magic in the real world because the north east of America just got hammered by snow storms, and yet the east coast of Canada did not. I myself work 8 hours north of where I live, and many years I have more snow and worse weather at home then at work.

Snow storms can hit anywhere, they had hit a town in the south, be warm and sunny in a town an hour north, and snowy again in a town further north. When it snows in the south, it does not mean that everything north of that is snowing, and worse.

After reading the world book, I'm more convinced then every that the sayings of, there must away be a Stark in Winterfell, is a political statement, and such, and by no means has anything magical about it.

Oh, thank you. I live in a country that doesn't receive snow :P

But following air pressure patterns, areas of high pressures are more subject to volatile weather. And snowstorms occour in areas of high pressure, Canada is an area of lower pressure, but colder, while America is warmer, but high pressure. The Wall and Winterfell are closer (a higher pressure area), and depending on where you are talking about, Canada and America can be far away.

[Blazfemur]

From what we're told, the seasons, are in fact, magical. Further supported by the varying times from which they occur and last. I wasnt implying that there not being a stark presently inadvertantly CAUSED the snowstorm. But it is in fact getting more aggressive up there that theyre technically not complying (if the Ward theory is at all accurate).

I would also like to bring up an interesting point. When someone complies with loss and provides a ward to assure they dont try anything, the ward is sent to the winning power (like Theon lived in Winterfell for Eddard Stark).

Now, IF, IF There Must Always Be A Stark In Winterfell IS in fact some sort of blood ward or act of compliance, who is the dominant authority to which theyre answering to? Following the logic of being a ward, the dominant authority would be IN Winterfell, with a Stark serving as ward. Who would they be a ward for, exactly.

Rumors have been circulating about Winterfell's deeper crypts. Rumors of an ice dragon. Dragons don't have authority to reach contractual obligations. This is more civil, and we've seen this activity in Wildlings, Craster, that these blood tributes will allow the Others to maintain peace (if everyone complies).

Three crackpot ideas id like to consider:

1) What if The Night's Queen is the dominant authority requiring that a Stark remain in Winterfell (buried, or locked, in Winterfell's Crypts). Their wierwood tree, the one Ned prayed to, was noticeably rotting and dying, where those around the rest of the world was thriving. What's draining the tree of it's life? The abnormal warmth in Winterfell, some attribute to hot springs. Could The Night's Queen be absorbing an abnormal amount of cold (thus causing the area around her, warmer) in order to stay alive?

2) Could The Night's King himself, be the dominant authority. If the Night's King himself, is a Stark, he belongs in Winterfell's crypts when he dies. The Wall is an obstacle for him to get to where he belongs. Further, if there is a Night's Queen (i question her existence at all), and she's in Winterfell's crypts, is he trying to get to her? To release her, or join her burial?

3) Consider Bran's weirvisions as well. When he time-watched through the weirwood, saw his father, etc. The last vision (the oldest), was a bearded man leading a captive to Winterfell's weirwood. Then, a white-haired woman appeared, slashed the captive's throat with a bronze (First Men weapon) dagger, spilling the captive's blood in front of the weirwood tree as his blood soaked into the ground. This is a blood tribute depending on the circumstances that were in play. Was this just corruption, a blatant murder, or was it intended to be the tribute for that time. More importantly, the identities of these three individuals remains unknown. Could it be early Night's King (bearded man), Night's Queen (white-haired woman), or whomever? Was this the beginnings of the agreement for blood tribute/sacrifice? Just brainstorming.

Where does all this fit in? Well, supposedly the last King In The North, a Stark, allied with The Watch and pushed The Night's King away and exiled him further North. Depending on timeline, perhaps it was the last King In The North (TNK's brother) who gashed at throat of the captive, OR, perhaps IS the captive.

Obviously im reading more into this than need be. Are there any records, of Stark kinslaying in Winterfell? Does anyone recall? OTHER than King in The North/The Night's King (supposedly he was just pushed north and niether of them were killed in that fashion) The three in Bran's vision may not be Stark's at all, i would think this is an important vision though

We must consider that Eddard went out of his way to hold traditions of the First Men, & the Old Gods. Sacrifices were made to maintain peace. I think this is connected to There Must Always Be A Stark In Winterfell, to serve as their blood tribute, their Ward, just as the First Men made tribute.

Whether or not BEING in Winterfell suffices, or if it's anticipation for the coming of winter Others (theyre one in the same) and presenting a tribute TO them (remember, Others will leave you alone supposedly if you offer a sacrifice to strengthen their numbers) is debateable and I think we cant get the answer right now with what we have. The Starks were always known as the most noble house, known for it. Perhaps the reason is so they would offer themselves up first BEFORE any of their people had to (save the people by sacrificing oneself), it sounds awfully Stark to do.

We're gonna need time, i think. More material. More to be revealed. But I DO think, this is connected, and in this way. There Must Always Be A Stark In Winterfell, is a stipulation, a rule. Perhaps, a ward. Eddard was reiterating the terms to maintain peace, perhaps. But how far does it go?

It may not go at all. It could be Stark-pride perhaps as some have suggest, but I think it goes deeper than that.

[aDanceWithFlagons]

That's wher ei think we'll have our first disagreement. Old nan was telling bran the tale, and said TLH was overrun by Others, overwhelmed. That they came on him, and the air grew so cold it snapped his blade, before being overwhelmed. Then Robb interrupts.

TWOIAF states he did get to the children. Old nan would suggest he didnt, unless she was going to get to something before being interrupted.

I'm a follower of Fomas' beliefs that Others were nothing more than a brached-off tribe of First Men. But then how did they get their powers? Could COTF enhance first men, and make them Others? If we look at THAT episode of GOT, The Night's King gives that baby The Ice Gift, and makes it an Other. Power can be transferred apparently. Im thinking these First Men either TOOK magic, or it was GIVEN to them.

Regardless, i dont want to make this another NK debate, plenty of those right now as it is. Back on topic.

As to Old Nan's story, Bran later states that the Singers helped the Last Hero. Of course we don't hear what form of help he recieved.

Maybe a way to ward off the cold which he passed on and became part of Winterfell. Warding the caves that are now the crypts and became part of the Winterfell complex. Wards that require blood?

[Ramsay's Penguins]

As to Old Nan's story, Bran later states that the Singers helped the Last Hero. Of course we don't hear what form of help he recieved.

Maybe a way to ward off the cold which he passed on and became part of Winterfell. Warding the caves that are now the crypts and became part of the Winterfell complex. Wards that require blood?

Ward of cold? Like hot springs? Winterfell has hot springs!

So a Winterfell Doom (exploding hot springs) to take down the White Walkers actually sounds awesome!

[OmnomnomPomelo]

There is Bran in Winterfell through the weirwood.

[addicted to snow]

The Crypts in Winterfell & the Well in the NightFort both have spiral stairs that continue downward past the point that we have seen POVs exit the stairway... Both places have spiral stairs that continue down... I would say this is the Author's way of foreshadowing or hinting that these stairs are connected in some way. Probably via a natural cavern system.

- This is how Beal the Bard managed to survive in Winterfell's Crypts for so long - He wasn't in Winterfell's Crypts for the entire duration.

- This why Yigrette says that says that Starks fell upon the wildings who according to legend enters a cave North of the wall & came out South of the wall... The caves lead to Winterfell, where the Starks killed them.

- We have seen six separate Buildings, settlements, and/or locations in the North & Far North that have significant underground structures... Based upon the way that writing works, it is only a matter of time before it is revealed that these structures are all part of the same network...

--

"There must always be a Stark in Winterfell" almost definitely has some ancient, magical, & recently forgotten meaning that is related to the Others... I say recently forgotten because there is a written, but not yet published Dunk & Egg Story Titled "Dangerous Women" That is set in Winterfell & details Stark Women frantically trying to produce an heir in order to maintain a Stark in Winterfell... This novel was supposed to be the last one released, but GRRM came to the conclusion that it it gave away too much of ASOIAF's Plot Intrigues...

I think that these secrets were either lost when Ned died or when Brandon & Richard were killed -or- It is possible that Benjin was filled in on these secrets when Richard went South leaving him to Serve as the Stark in Winterfell... It is also possible that Benjin's disappearance is related to whatever becomes of that Stark when the Others Come... I think it has something to do with the Heart of Winter, which is where Jon will find Benjin in the TWOW...

--

On a side note: In the Books, the whole ice that Craster is sacrificing to the Others is based upon the word of one very unreliable witness - one of Craster's Wives... The exchange where Jon interrogates this woman is written in such a way that GRRM can only be doing one of two things::

1. GRRM wrote the exchange in an effort to make Jon appear incredibly dumb to the audience.
   
2. GRRM wrote the exchange in such a way because he wants the reader to believe something that is really not the case - He is hiding something...
   

I think that GRRM wants the reader to believe that Craster was sacrificing to the Others, when in reality, he was sacrificing to people who worship the weirwoods...

See the Illustrated version of ACoKs, where the scene of Craster's wife observing the sacrifice being picked up is depicted... The figures collecting the child look Nothing like the way GRRM describes the Others in AGoT's Prologue... Image #4 @ the following link:: http://www.richardhescox.com/a-clash-of-kings-gallery.php

Besides why the heck would the Others accept Sheep? And what the heck would the Others do with these Sheep?

[OmnomnomPomelo]

The "Dangerous Women" is an anthology about strong women (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_Women_(anthology)). The next Dunk&Egg story's title will be "She-wolves of Winterfell".

But anyway I like that theory that the crypts of Winterfell and the well of the Nighfort is connected. And if the Others could find a tunnel which runs under the Wall then they could appear at Winterfell. So maybe the "there must always be a Stark in Winterfell" thing implies that the Starks fought against the Others back then and they appeared at Winterfell too, so they are some kind of archenemies.

[Queen‍‍‍‍‍‍ Alysanne‍‍™]

That's wher ei think we'll have our first disagreement. Old nan was telling bran the tale, and said TLH was overrun by Others, overwhelmed. That they came on him, and the air grew so cold it snapped his blade, before being overwhelmed. Then Robb interrupts.

TWOIAF states he did get to the children. Old nan would suggest he didnt, unless she was going to get to something before being interrupted.

I'm a follower of Fomas' beliefs that Others were nothing more than a brached-off tribe of First Men. But then how did they get their powers? Could COTF enhance first men, and make them Others? If we look at THAT episode of GOT, The Night's King gives that baby The Ice Gift, and makes it an Other. Power can be transferred apparently. Im thinking these First Men either TOOK magic, or it was GIVEN to them.

Regardless, i dont want to make this another NK debate, plenty of those right now as it is. Back on topic.

Old Nan's story also ends with the CotF helping, From Bran AGOT

He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds—”

Later in the chapter...

All Bran could think of was Old Nan’s story of the Others and the last hero, hounded through the white woods by dead men and spiders big as hounds. He was afraid for a moment, until he remembered how that story ended. “The children will help him,” he blurted, “the children of the forest!”

The missing piece of the puzzle is, what role the CotF play in helping him, personally I don't believe it's the happy ending of the CotF siding with men to defeat considering the CotF watched all events unfold and waited for men to have losses and travel a suicidal journey before intervening.

Also Old Nan is telling this story to Bran as a horror story so the ending is likely something gruesome.

[Fire Eater]

Questions.

1. Do you think this part of the bargain struck between LH (BtB) and the Others during LN 1.0?

2. When Ned says this, do you think that he is aware of this blood ward idea, or is he repeating something his father said, and his grandfather and his great grandfather...and so on and so forth.

3. If keeping a Stark in WF is what keeps the Walkers at bay, then why are the Others up and walking (pun intended) in the prologue of GOT--all the Starks were there (Ned, Robb, Bran, Rickon, and even the women folk--do they count in your theory or not?)

1. I actually have thought about that. A possible peace treaty with the Wall as the border between their two realms.

I think Stark in WF may be part of a prophecy that said the Others would never come to threaten the realm so long as there was a Stark in WF, and the men of the NW remained true.

[Blazfemur]

As to Old Nan's story, Bran later states that the Singers helped the Last Hero. Of course we don't hear what form of help he recieved.

Maybe a way to ward off the cold which he passed on and became part of Winterfell. Warding the caves that are now the crypts and became part of the Winterfell complex. Wards that require blood?

Unless they helped him, by granting the Last Hero, the powers of Other. The ice gift, making him The Night's King. Admittedly im biased and WANT to see the last hero become the night's king. Inherit the powers of ice, and than backstabbed and exiled because he BECAME what they were fighting off. Logistically there's too little information to map it out, i just know i WANT the hero to become the king.

Ward of cold? Like hot springs? Winterfell has hot springs!

So a Winterfell Doom (exploding hot springs) to take down the White Walkers actually sounds awesome!

I always had the inkling the hot springs was a cop out for the seemingly "abnormal" warmth. I think it goes deeper than that. I had an entombed Night's Queen absorbing the cold around her to keep herself alive idea, but of course it's admittedly crackpot.

1. I actually have thought about that. A possible peace treaty with the Wall as the border between their two realms.

I think Stark in WF may be part of a prophecy that said the Others would never come to threaten the realm so long as there was a Stark in WF, and the men of the NW remained true.

Love it too. The underlined part? If there was funny business between the night's king and the watch as i suspect, reinforced by old nan's "all crows are liars," their faith is dwindling. And IF all the present-day night's watch are following rules set in play by the corrupt commander, technically, theyre following false advice, whether aware or more likely unaware, then theyd all technically be considered liars to the original oath.

Always remember. ALWAYS. In the night's watch library, those records of The King and before were PURPOSELY destroyed. Remember? Anything forward is word of mouth from the very people that destroyed those original records, they could tell you anything

[BearQueen87]

1. I actually have thought about that. A possible peace treaty with the Wall as the border between their two realms.

I think Stark in WF may be part of a prophecy that said the Others would never come to threaten the realm so long as there was a Stark in WF, and the men of the NW remained true.

1. Yeah, I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility at all.

I like the second half of that thought as well.

[Blazfemur]

another thought. All these sacrifices, blood tributes. Ned prays to the Old Gods, craster and the wildlings pay by giving their own to man the Others.

Either Eddard's tributes have NOTHING to do with Others, OR, there's a hidden connection between the Old Gods & Others. You know what i mean?

[Blazfemur]

it's almost as if The Others are harbingers TO the Old Gods. Enforcing tribute. (With other purposes, as well)

[Fire Eater]

1. Yeah, I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility at all.

I like the second half of that thought as well.

If that is the case, then maybe the NK was trying to keep the treaty in effect when other people were sneaking into the lands beyond the Wall (ancestors to the wildlings), but the King-beyond-the-Wall opposed him along with the Stark king.

The NK's records were erased, and all we have is legend, with usually the winners writing history, and history being propaganda much of the time.