TimJames Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 This may be off topic, but you'd think that Craster would keep at least one of his sons around to make inherit his keep once he croaked.Is he so deranged that he thinks he'll never die, or does he just not care about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Teabags Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Its a show line but "He sleeps with the daughters to make more daughters." On the surface in Craster's twisted logic his male offspring are simply useless mouths he can't bred more girls from for the sole purpose of reproducing his 'harem'. The more I think about the mad world of Craster's keep the more disturbing it becomes - for instance it occurs to me right now that the setup Craster has with his daughter/wives is not that dissimilar with the breeding programme that a livestock farmer in the agricultural world might use to bred his animals. In that you have a sole stud male with a herd of females and any male offspring of these unions are only fit for slaughter. Now consider Craster keeps a herd of pigs, which he is probably breeding under very similar methods to those he employs to breed his wives... There you go the Farmer that farms his own family! Urrgh! The other odd thought I had is that Craster's apparent priority of daughters over sons is a complete inversion of the Westerosi noble house viewpoint where heavy emphasis is given to getting that precious first born son and 'the heir and a spare' to carry on the family line. Whereas just north of the Wall you have Craster who believes that baby boys are only worth being exposed to the elements at birth! I would loved to have seen a meeting between Craster and that other evil old man Walder Frey. Walder - "I have twenty-two sons, heh heh!" Craster - "What is the point of that?!?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buried Treasure Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 This very well could be another example of the unreliable narrator. However when GRRM uses this technique he plants evidence to the contrary. I don't seem to recall anything in the books that suggests otherwise (no pun intended, seriously). So in order for this to not be true that evidence has to be forthcoming in the next books. Isn't the contrary evidence just that he was exposing children into the woods? They were certain to die and never been seen again even if this were a universe without magic or Others. Hasn't child exposure happened at various points in RL history. I believe there are various myths explaining what happened to those children - such as being taken by the fairies - too. I think that was the parallel George may have been going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elm Tree Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 This may be off topic, but you'd think that Craster would keep at least one of his sons around to make inherit his keep once he croaked.Is he so deranged that he thinks he'll never die, or does he just not care about that?I don't think he cares, and beyond the wall the laws for inheritance don't seem to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRANDON GREYSTARK Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Why not ,Craster throwing sons to the others is similar to what Nettles did to tame Sheepstealer . The Others may need blood to work their spells . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monctonvike Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 When Tywin speaks of Tyrion's birth he mentions something about considering leaving the baby in the woods. Many cultures did this I believe the Spartans used to leave children particularly males with birth defects in the wilderness to die. In Crasters case there seems to be two reasons really 1) as eastablished in the show as a randsome or protection if you will from the others. 2) he just does not want to have to feed something that will not service him. The other side of the coin this would suit the other's needs very well as he often has baby's it is said that they bring back dead things. Allowing the girls to live serves their purpose as well, since it makes more of them. I don't know if it will be revealed in the books or not, In the fables and stories of the others there is talk of sacrifices and stories ot them bringing back the dead to serve them. I know there was something in ADwD about baby's being the sweetest meat. I have also read theories of the night king warging into his baby when he died, some believe he is still aliave or doing something with the babies. Last but not least the fact that there does not seem to be female others which seems to suggest that they have a Queen or female dominated society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Last but not least the fact that there does not seem to be female others which seems to suggest that they have a Queen or female dominated society. And you base that upon the ~6 we have seen, without looking between their legs even? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monctonvike Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I peaked it was nasty business LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monctonvike Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 And you base that upon the ~6 we have seen, without looking between their legs even? All kidding aside this is not a new theory (nor mine) it has been around for a long time. Does that make it true??? of course not but I do think that there maybe something to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamPangloss Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Why has no one else mentioned that the books make Craster out to be different in some way; all the other wilding settlements have been abandoned save for his. *Obviously* something dodgy is going on, its not just a show thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Why has no one else mentioned that the books make Craster out to be different in some way; all the other wilding settlements have been abandoned save for his. *Obviously* something dodgy is going on, its not just a show thing. He's sacrificing his kids to the Others, no doubt about that. The question is do they other transform them like they did in the show, to which I would say there isn't sufficient evidence to determine that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiko Dragonhorn Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Source? For either claim please. The Wall is made of ice. The Nightfort was built AROUND the well that leads to what used to be the only way through the wall. The well was there first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandwipes Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 There is a thread called Incest is Magic that unfortunately never caught on because the OP is very good. He argues that "Otherness" is recessive trait carried within certain bloodlines and the best way to bring out a recessive trait is generational inbreeding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The Wall is made of ice. So? The Nightfort was built AROUND the well that leads to what used to be the only way through the wall. The well was there first. So a well predating the castle means it was a common occurrence for Northeners to throw thier children down it as a sacrifice to the Others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 The Wall is made of ice. The Nightfort was built AROUND the well that leads to what used to be the only way through the wall. The well was there first. So, no evidence at all, just a crackpot theory you pass of as the utter truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eiko Dragonhorn Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 So, no evidence at all, just a crackpot theory you pass of as the utter truth? Actual observations from PoV characters count for more than fairytales passed down for 8000 years in my world. That's kind of how science works, you use observations rather than just trusting the words of someone else. I guess you'd rather we kept believing the catholic church on how the universe works though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallTyrion Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Actual observations from PoV characters count for more than fairytales passed down for 8000 years in my world. That's kind of how science works, you use observations rather than just trusting the words of someone else. I guess you'd rather we kept believing the catholic church on how the universe works though. What? You're making a massive leap with no evidence and you're accusing others of not knowing how science works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Why has no one else mentioned that the books make Craster out to be different in some way; all the other wilding settlements have been abandoned save for his. *Obviously* something dodgy is going on, its not just a show thing. Because the books don't make him out to be particularly 'different'. He's just an ornery old bastard, nothing particualarly 'special' about him except the way he treats his women. The other wildings have abandoned their settlements (largely further north it might be noted) to join Mance. Depredation by Others have not been a significantly noted factor that far south when the watch was heading north He's sacrificing his kids to the Others, no doubt about that. The question is do they other transform them like they did in the show, to which I would say there isn't sufficient evidence to determine that. Plenty of doubt about it. No doubt that Other's have been seen around at the same time he has sacrificed sons, yes, but correlation is not causation and the logic fails. If he was sacrificing sons, sheep would hardly serve the same purpose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 What? You're making a massive leap with no evidence and you're accusing others of not knowing how science works? Its not a massive leap with no evidence, he's just trusting the words of someone else... The word of a one-scene nobody cannot possibly disputed. Even if its not actually a POV character as claimed. It MUST be truth as determined by her own observations, not just a fanatsy she happens to believe in. Examining the veracity of her as a source is definitely not acceptable. For those who are not aware, thats the sarcasm font. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the Teabags Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Because the books don't make him out to be particularly 'different'. He's just an ornery old bastard, nothing particualarly 'special' about him except the way he treats his women. The other wildings have abandoned their settlements (largely further north it might be noted) to join Mance. Depredation by Others have not been a significantly noted factor that far south when the watch was heading north What's special about Craster's keep is that it exists at all. Think about it the Wildlings basically operate on a 'law of the jungle' morality where if you're strong (in might, cunning, numbers, whatever) you're perfectly entitled to use that strength to kill or dominate others and take their stuff with no moral consequences. So in the middle of Wildling territory there is Craster's Keep where a single old man defends a load of valuable livestock and frightened women and girls in a fixed position. What logically should happen to Craster as a consequence of doing what he is doing in Wildling territory? The answer is that other wildlings come, kill him and take his daughter/wives and valuables. What is special about Craster is that THIS hasn't happened. For some reason Craster has been left alone by other wildlings despite the fact he has a load of stuff they likely want to take from him. The reason that comes most swiftly to my mind is that something or someone is protecting Craster from the attentions of his fellow wildlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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