Iron from Ice discussion (spoilers)

[Walther von der Vogelweide]

Anyone else kinda disappointed that they didn't go in a more risky direction and try for something historical?

One of the best things about Telltale's Walking Dead series was that it was a completely original story that just happened to take place in the same world as the comic of the same name. Oh, sure, there were a few overlapping characters from the comic, but on the whole the story of Clementine and Lee was entirely disconnected from the story of Rick Grimes and company. It acknowledged that there was room for more interesting stories to tell without the need to reference the source material constantly.

Telltale's GoT series, by contrast, is leaning worryingly towards cameos by Tyrion and Cersei and Ramsay and Dany and so forth. It suggests the creators fear they need to drop big names into the new storyline in order to keep people interested, even if it often feels forced.

Imagine if Telltale had risked separating themselves from the TV storyline and instead portrayed the story taking place during Robert's Rebellion or the like. That could have been awesome.

[tokyochojin]

Any news on when episode 2 is out?

[Walther von der Vogelweide]

Any news on when episode 2 is out?

Nothing. That's how Telltale usually works; you'll hear that it's coming pretty much the weekend before it happens.

[Walther von der Vogelweide]

Episode 2 trailer coming out tomorrow, which judging from past Telltale experience means Episode 2 arrives next Tuesday.

[marsyao]

Now we are confirm that House Forrester was a rather minor noble house, they were the bannermen of House Glover, not House Stark, and House Glover themselve was not particular powerful among Northern noble houses. Thus we have a perfect explaination why Forresters were not invited into wedding feast inside great hall of the Twins.

[tokyochojin]

Second episode was a bit dissapointing as my choices in the first game didn't really seem to have much impact. I thought your Castilin choice would have greater impact.

[Hos the Hostage]

I told Jon about the North Grove [emoji14] Will see how that plays out.

Did anyone not 'win the marriage with Elaena'? What happens if you kiss the ring? Do they bring Ryon to the funeral?

I liked Beskha, and Rodrik returned from dead.

Really thought Damien was Mira's knight in shining armor, only to kill him moments afterwards. Took the knife, forgetting no fingerprint technology was there at KL.

[LordStoneheart]

I was laughing hysterically at how bad the writing was.

Mostly it was Rodrick's miraculous recovery after, what, 900 miles in a maggoty cart with no food or water? There were ways I could have suspended my disbelief about his survival. If the cart guy had found him not far away from the Twins and still helped him. If he had woken up sooner, ditched the cart, and found help. Hell, I would buy f*cking Thoros helping out. But no, what we get is the ridiculous notion that a man can survive being unconscious, no food or water, for weeks, possibly months while traveling in a horse-drawn cart next to his rotting father who is covered in maggots that conveniently enough ignore his own body and even though he is clearly not showing the pale decay that Gregor was, the cart driver or anyone at the Twins did not notice him alive or breathing even the smallest of breaths...

I didn't mind the first episode even if I thought they were over doing all the canon characters into caricatures, but past this Rodrick crap I just can't take this shit seriously anymore. The rest of the game was a blast when I decided it's not a serious game; it's a parody of the bad fanfiction.net writers.

[sj4iy]

<snip>

Martin screws up travel times in the books all the time. There's no way that Ned could go from KL to Storm's End to the ToJ to Starfall to Winterfell in the time he did it. Just like Catelyn couldn't have gotten to KL from Winterfell in the time she did.

I see no reason to rip a game for doing the same thing the books do, which is ignore the realities of travel time in order to get people in the right place at the right time.

[Walther von der Vogelweide]

Second episode was a bit dissapointing as my choices in the first game didn't really seem to have much impact. I thought your Castilin choice would have greater impact.

That's pretty much Telltale's trademark: no matter what you choose, the same thing is going to happen, even if it makes pretty much zero sense. The biggest change you can usually hope for is your relationships with other characters, not how events play out, and TWD Season 2 couldn't even measure up on that count.

[LordStoneheart]

It isn't the travel itself. Ned and Cat were alive and healthy when they were doing it. I don't understand how they thought an unconscious guy with open wounds next to a maggot-infested corpse could survive, even if they were going with Westeros as smaller than usually stated.

[Ramsay's Penguins]

Perhaps he's been waking and falling back uncocious, and the cart driver fed him inbetween. Rodrick. Ight have forgotten ever waking though.

[LordStoneheart]

I'd gladly take a bad explanation than no explanation. I know GRRM gets criticism for his death fake outs but this was just so bad...

[juanml82]

It isn't the travel itself. Ned and Cat were alive and healthy when they were doing it. I don't understand how they thought an unconscious guy with open wounds next to a maggot-infested corpse could survive, even if they were going with Westeros as smaller than usually stated.

The cart driver stumbled into Tywin Lannister's teletransportation device - the same device used to deliver news between King's Landing and Mereen during the show's fourth season.

[sj4iy]

It rained a lot on the way there. He had his mouth open and was able to drink enough to keep from dying. It's about as miraculous as Arya surviving being hit on the back of the head with the blunt edge of an ax (which still should have cracked her skull open but only gave her a headache) and Tyrion surviving drowning (in which he really should have died). The maggots kept his wounds from festering too much.

The cart driver used the same teleportation device that everyone in the books and show (except Dany, of course) seems to have.

There. Head canon. It makes about as much sense as most of the stuff in the books or show.

[LordStoneheart]

Most convenient rain ever, not drowning him. But it's kind of a shame that the writers put less of an effort to explain this contrivance than that.

Its not the only bad example of what I've considered some poor telling of tales, just the worst. But hey, maybe if I throw all notion of realism, I can find it enjoyable.

[sj4iy]

Most convenient rain ever, not drowning him. But it's kind of a shame that the writers put less of an effort to explain this contrivance than that.

Its not the only bad example of what I've considered some poor telling of tales, just the worst. But hey, maybe if I throw all notion of realism, I can find it enjoyable.

LOL. This is a story with ice demons, zombies, fire gods, dragons, people who can see the past in trees and walk as animals.

I threw away the notion of 'realism' in the very first chapter of the books. This is fantasy, not historical fiction.

[Walther von der Vogelweide]

LOL. This is a story with ice demons, zombies, fire gods, dragons, people who can see the past in trees and walk as animals.

I threw away the notion of 'realism' in the very first chapter of the books. This is fantasy, not historical fiction.

That isn't the way it works. Even in a fantasy series, the writer still establishes the rules it plays by and abides by them as much as possible in order to maintain suspension of disbelief. In this case, the series is mostly low fantasy, with the rules outside of some exceptions corresponding pretty well with the rules of our own world. So no, Melisandre being able to use magic and Tyrion suddenly shapeshifting into Godzilla are not equally true to the spirit of the series. Nor is it acceptable to pretend that someone could survive weeks or months on the back of a wagon without food or water without dying.

It is absurd that Rodrik would survive a trip from the Twins to the Wolfswood on the back of a cart without food or water, but the TV show is notorious for playing very fast and loose with Westerosi geography, like the rocket-powered turnip cart that takes Ros to King's Landing in season 1, or Littlefinger zipping between King's Landing, Renly's camp and Harrenhal as if it were just a stroll down the street. Since the game is based on the show and not the books, it's hardly surprising Telltale's writers would be equally disinterested in figuring out distance.

[sj4iy]

That isn't the way it works. Even in a fantasy series, the writer still establishes the rules it plays by and abides by them as much as possible in order to maintain suspension of disbelief. In this case, the series is mostly low fantasy, with the rules outside of some exceptions corresponding pretty well with the rules of our own world. So no, Melisandre being able to use magic and Tyrion suddenly shapeshifting into Godzilla are not equally true to the spirit of the series. Nor is it acceptable to pretend that someone could survive weeks or months on the back of a wagon without food or water without dying.

It is absurd that Rodrik would survive a trip from the Twins to the Wolfswood on the back of a cart without food or water, but the TV show is notorious for playing very fast and loose with Westerosi geography, like the rocket-powered turnip cart that takes Ros to King's Landing in season 1, or Littlefinger zipping between King's Landing, Renly's camp and Harrenhal as if it were just a stroll down the street. Since the game is based on the show and not the books, it's hardly surprising Telltale's writers would be equally disinterested in figuring out distance.

Oh, please. There are no rules and never have been any. Martin has always gone with 'plot convenience' over realism. Always. The rules are bent and broken so often that there's really none to speak of. So I don't bother even trying to define them. Trying to work out the timeline is pointless, because nothing will line up. Trying to explain why someone survived something is useless- the only rule there is "They die when the author needs them to and live when the author needs them to". Arya should have died from the blow to the back of the head, but she didn't. Tyrion should have died from drowning, but he didn't. Dany should have died from the pyre, but she didn't. Bran should have died from the fall, but he didn't.

I'm not saying people can't dislike it. It is absurd. But so is the series it's based on. Blasting the game for doing it while saying that the books don't do it is nonsense. I don't expect realism and never did. Rodrik survives because the plot calls for it- just like everyone else in the series. Ethan died for the same reason. This series has the 'illusion' of realism more than it really has it.

[LordStoneheart]

LOL. This is a story with ice demons, zombies, fire gods, dragons, people who can see the past in trees and walk as animals.

I threw away the notion of 'realism' in the very first chapter of the books. This is fantasy, not historical fiction.

That's your mistake. Not everything is excused because of the fantasy elements. If Daenerys storms KL with an army of robodragons and wields a gun from terminator, that cannot simply be excused because "it's fantasy! There's ice demons!" If you'll notice, I didn't defend the Arya/ax survival either. I didn't defend many things that may surpass realism. I criticized this one instance in the game as a standout blunder because that's what it is. The fact that ridiculous excuses like conveniently timed rain and good guy maggots need to be made to have it make sense is ridiculous enough, but again, they didn't bother to explain it even a little. Without that, its just plain bad story telling for the sake of shock value. And I'm also not discounting the possibility that it was a move to keep men relevant in the games since him not showing up after Ethan's death would have made Lady Elissa and Talia more powerful in their own rights, but that's a conversation for another time.

(Also, there are no fire gods, there are just fire lunatics who believe in fire gods.)