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Ned's Bastard

Why on earth did Ramsey burn down Winterfell?

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Was it on Roose's orders? Or was he completely acting on his own?


As far as I recall Tywin started writing these secret letters in aSoS as pointed out in Tyrion chapters. Roose then makes contact with Tywin during Jaime's transaction.


So, what then? Had Roose already turned on Robb in CoK or was this just Ramsey being the bastard psycopath he is.



Also, I wanted to point out how good his plan was. winning Theon's trust then getting his army inside Winterfell without any hassle was just badass.



P.S. I'm on my first read through so correct me if I'm wrong.


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I'm pretty sure Roose was already planning on betraying robb, but I don't think Ramsay did it on his orders. I think Ramsay saw an oppertunity to make his daddy proud and took it. :) I don't think we can know for sure though....


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I assume it's because he's a spiteful jerk and likes destruction, rather than any instruction from Roose. I do agree with INCBlackbird that Roose had already decided to turn on Robb by CoK, though.


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We can never be sure then. But one thing I'm sure about is all the Boltons are cunts.

Domeric Bolton just turned over in his grave, poor guy

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Roose probably decided to turn on Robb the moment he married Jeyne Westerling



As for Ramsay, probably has as much to do with being angry about being arrested as he doesen't like limits imposed on him and is an opportunistic revenge thing to create a power vacuum so they can continue their fight with the Manderly's for lands. Of course Roose turned it into something much bigger which was patronage over the North



Ramsay has an excellent tactical cunning, but he is too deprived to think about the long term strategic implications of his actions, as will be clearer in ADWD


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Domeric Bolton just turned over in his grave, poor guy

Wait who is Domeric Bolton? Roose's son? Is he in the later books. Haven't read anything beyond aSoS yet. I don't think he has been mentioned yet.

Actually I haven't even completed aSoS yet. Just finished reading the RW chapters.

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Was it on Roose's orders? Or was he completely acting on his own?

As far as I recall Tywin started writing these secret letters in aSoS as pointed out in Tyrion chapters. Roose then makes contact with Tywin during Jaime's transaction.

So, what then? Had Roose already turned on Robb in CoK or was this just Ramsey being the bastard psycopath he is.

Also, I wanted to point out how good his plan was. winning Theon's trust then getting his army inside Winterfell without any hassle was just badass.

P.S. I'm on my first read through so correct me if I'm wrong.

Roose started to betray Robb on ACOK when Robb gave Roose a large army for him to command. Roose send certain lords with their soilders to particular locations so he hopes they either be killed or captured like Wylis Manderley. Robb should have known better not to trust Roose with all men that he gave him.

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This only makes sense if Roose was already planning on betraying Robb, and Ramsey was aware of this. Ramsey's goal is to get on Roose's good books - he'll do anything to become the Bolton heir. He may be a psycho, but he's not stupid - burning Winterfell without this would make no strategic sense whatsoever, and would draw Roose's ire if the intention had been to continue supporting Robb. If Ramsey had thought Roose wanted to continue supporting Robb, he would have held Winterfell on his behalf with the support of local northerners.



Theon's disastrous attempt at holding Winterfell showed how difficult it was to defend it without the support of local northerners. So, rather than defend it or let it fall into enemy hands, Ramsey decided to burn it.


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Yes Ramsay is not a nice guy.



Remember he forced a marriage with Donella Hornwood for her lands...and after consummating the marriage, he locked her up and she starved to death.



Ramsay also is a northman. While is probably not a fan of Starks, he definitely is not a fan of invaders, i.e. Ironborn.



So with one swoop, he rid the central North of Ironborn and paved the way for the Boltons to rid themselves of their rivals.



Spoiler Heavy (TWoIaF, ADwD)



Since the Long Night the Red Kings were bitter rivals of the Kings of Winter, the Starks of Winterfell. The Boltons achieved some successes against the Starks, with Kings Royce II and Royce IV burning Winterfell. The Boltons are said to have flayed the skins of several Stark lords and hung them in the Dreadfort. According to rumor, some Bolton lords wore the flayed skins of their enemies—including Starks, such as the son of Bael—as cloaks. This practice has given the Boltons a sinister reputation. The last Red King, Rogar the Huntsman, submitted to Winterfell when the Andal invasion of Westeros was also beginning. KingTheon Stark, the Hungry Wolf, and the Boltons defeated Argos Sevenstar and his Andals in the Battle of the Weeping Water.



Thousands of years ago, the Dreadfort rose in an unsuccessful rebellion with the Greystarks of the Wolf's Den against the Starks. The Boltons survived the rebellion, although the Greystarks did not.



The Chronicles of Longsister state that during the Rape of the Three Sisters by the Kings of Winter, which occurred two thousand years ago, Belthasar Bolton had a Pink Pavilion made from the the flayed skins of a hundred Sistermen.



The Boltons threatened Winterfell during the reign of King Edrick Snowbeard. At some point unspecified centuries ago, the Boltons rebelled against the Starks. The Stark armies besieged the Dreadfort for two years before the Boltons capitulated to King Harlon Stark and dipped their banners once more.



Approximately a thousand years ago, the Boltons bent their knees to Winterfell and agreed to abandon their practice of flaying their enemies. Also a thousand years ago, Karlon Stark built a castle on land taken from a rebel lord; it is possible this land of House Karstark was taken from the Boltons. For many centuries the Boltons have remained loyal to the Starks, although rumors persist that they continue to flay their prisoners in secret and maintain a hidden chamber in the Dreadfort to display the skins of their enemies.



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I believe that there are several reasons why he burnt Winterfell. Remember that he was presumed dead at that time at the hands of Ser Rodrick Cassel.

1) Revenge: he had to pretend to be Reek first for the Northmen and then for the Ironborn. Kill them all, burn them all seems like a very "Ramsay" thing to do;

2) Prove himself to Roose and to King Robb: he saves the female smallfolk, the Frey wards and captures an Ironborn prince. Makes up a bit for the Hornwood fiasco;

3) no witnesses: by burning Winterfell to the ground he achieves the other two points while leaving no witnesses. (so he thinks). As well by blaming it on Theon he villifies the Ironborn making himself look all the better

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Ramsey burned Winterfell because he wanted to make it look like the ironmen did it before the castle was recaptured by the northmen. He does all kinds of things for shits and giggles, but there is also a method to his madness. It might have been at Roose's direction, but it's difficult to say for sure.



And I think Roose started a conversation with the Freys about abandoning Robb right after his marriage, and then the clincher was Karstark's beheading and the subsequent loss of about a quarter of northern army.


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It's possible that Ramsay was not just trying to make Roose proud, but was trying to prove to him that he was a true Bolton. We see through Jon's POVs how crippling the name Snow is amongst highborn.



The Bolton-Stark rivalry goes back thousands of years to when they ruled as the Red Kings and Kings of Winter respectively. Even after Bolton kneeled to Stark, they raised a rebellion. Burning Winterfell was Ramsay's way to show Roose that as a Bolton, he will bring their House the glory and power they had been denied for thousands of years.


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When Bran and co left the crypts, they figured out that it wasn't The on who burned down Winterfell, but that was the story that was spread around making Ramsay sound like the hero of the situation, pretty much having killed or made captive those who knew the truth.

He almost definitely did it to place the blame on Theon, creating more anger and hatred towards him, giving him more leave to turn Theon into his little play thing to degrade and torture. Considering the secret plans made between Roose and Tywin, it is hard to say whether those were given orders or if Ramsay acted solely to gain favor from his father and even the north. One of Rob's last orders were to keep Theon alive in wait of potential ransom for his execution.

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