My Child is a Deformed Embarrassment, and my Beloved Wife Died Birthing Him....I'll Name Him After Me!

[The Blue Knight]

if ty is a lannister tradition, having ty in your name would make you more of a lannister. a more traditional lannister, and what is the name lannister - or any house name - if not the very personification of traditionalism?

coincidence? as in random unconnected events? i think that the chance of none of the fathers knew, at the time of choosing their sons name, that it would contain the culturally significant first letters and syllable of their own; and later of their fathers, and fathers father.

Names with ty- are simply some possible names for Lannisters. As another poster mentioned, ty- is one of many cultural names.

For example, in Russia, many people have the last name suffix -ov. If you see someone whose name is Alexander Larov you would think he was Russian because of his last name. However, there are many Russian's without last names ending in -ov. For example, Volodin is also a very Russian last name, however it does not have the -ov ending. Larov is not a more Russian last name than Volodin.

Similarly, even though many Lannisters have ty- in their names, this doesn't mean Jaime, without ty-, is less of a Lannister. Both names are possible Lannister names.

[DSB]

Names with ty- are simply some possible names for Lannisters. As another poster mentioned, ty- is one of many cultural names.

For example, in Russia, many people have the last name suffix -ov. If you see someone whose name is Alexander Larov you would think he was Russian because of his last name. However, there are many Russian's without last names ending in -ov. For example, Volodin is also a very Russian last name, however it does not have the -ov ending. Larov is not a more Russian last name than Volodin.

Similarly, even though many Lannisters have ty- in their names, this doesn't mean Jaime, without ty-, is less of a Lannister. Both names are possible Lannister names.

i am certain in my previous statements it is made clear that the ty prefix is neither lannister-exclusive, nor lannister-obligatory.

the referencing of planetosi nor earthen comparisons is unnecessary, for me at least.

[The Blue Knight]

i am certain in my previous statements it is made clear that the ty prefix is neither lannister-exclusive, nor lannister-obligatory.

the referencing of planetosi nor earthen comparisons is unnecessary, for me at least.

Uhhhh...ok?

So, you are saying that ty- is not Lannister obligatory, while still claiming that Tyrion got a more Lannister name than Jaime? I don't really understand where you're going.

[DSB]

Uhhhh...ok?

So, you are saying that ty- is not Lannister obligatory, while still claiming that Tyrion got a more Lannister name than Jaime? I don't really understand where you're going.

non-obligatory and non-exclusive do not mean irrelevant, meaningless or insignificant.

if you name a child, then your motivation could be explained by your influences and opinions of their value.

tywin was responsible for choosing tyrions name, so we can only surmise as to his motivations and influences. due to his at-best fictional status, his imaginary existence began years after tyrion was born, so 'out-of-character' becomes rather unsteady ground to tread.

but with the little we know of tywin, and the comparatively only slightly more we know of westeros and its history, names matter to many, and tywin understands such subtleties, and so names matter to tywin.

tywin has named his first-born as he saw fit, though it is inferred he may have been happy to be influenced by his wife, so maybe it was her choice.

she certainly had no input on tyrion, so the point remains; with sole discretion, the lineage and legacy devotee, the considered and informed tywin used a familial name-type for a child he at the very least resented and was ashamed, apparently despised, denied and destined for the chopping block by interpretation.

if you dont think tywin attached any significance to names, house or personal, or on tradition, or the power of history no matter how small the increment, or all of that, then i think you are mistaken.

[The Blue Knight]

non-obligatory and non-exclusive do not mean irrelevant, meaningless or insignificant.

if you name a child, then your motivation could be explained by your influences and opinions of their value.

tywin was responsible for choosing tyrions name, so we can only surmise as to his motivations and influences. due to his at-best fictional status, his imaginary existence began years after tyrion was born, so 'out-of-character' becomes rather unsteady ground to tread.

but with the little we know of tywin, and the comparatively only slightly more we know of westeros and its history, names matter to many, and tywin understands such subtleties, and so names matter to tywin.

tywin has named his first-born as he saw fit, though it is inferred he may have been happy to be influenced by his wife, so maybe it was her choice.

she certainly had no input on tyrion, so the point remains; with sole discretion, the lineage and legacy devotee, the considered and informed tywin used a familial name-type for a child he at the very least resented and was ashamed, apparently despised, denied and destined for the chopping block by interpretation.

if you dont think tywin attached any significance to names, house or personal, or on tradition, or the power of history no matter how small the increment, or all of that, then i think you are mistaken.

I feel like we are not on the same page.

What I have been saying all along is that Tywin named his son Tyrion because Tyrion is a Lannister name. Tywin wants a Lannister name for his own Lannister son. Tyrion is not a particularly glorious or honored name, just one of many other Lannister names.

[DSB]

I feel like we are not on the same page.

What I have been saying all along is that Tywin named his son Tyrion because Tyrion is a Lannister name. Tywin wants a Lannister name for his own Lannister son. Tyrion is not a particularly glorious or honored name, just one of many other Lannister names.

the desire to use a lannister name, at least one seemingly so in the last few generations was not so strong he acted upon it when naming his first son and heir, that would be hoped to continue the main branch of the lannisters of the rock.

to choose to give a much less than loved son such an intrinsically lannister name seems odd. i think you see my opinion as something to be changed, rather than disagree with.

i understand you have no issue with the name that is chosen, while i find the choice, given the circumstances, to be odd at the very least.

[Fae Boleyn]

Tywin values Lannister blood, even Tyrion's. Tyrion may be the least of the Lannisters, but he still is one - paraphrasing a show quote because for once I think they hit the nail on the head. Giving Tyrion a more blatantly Lannister name is a good way to underline that he's still one of them, unfortunate but true. The connotations we now know of mean it's also something of a stealth insult.

Cersei's noble name bit fits because the vicious King Tyrion wasn't the only one, but really, we know Cersei's not the most interested in history, it wouldn't surprise me if she only recalls he was a king.

[DSB]

Tywin values Lannister blood, even Tyrion's. Tyrion may be the least of the Lannisters, but he still is one - paraphrasing a show quote because for once I think they hit the nail on the head. Giving Tyrion a more blatantly Lannister name is a good way to underline that he's still one of them, unfortunate but true. The connotations we now know of mean it's also something of a stealth insult.

Cersei's noble name bit fits because the vicious King Tyrion wasn't the only one, but really, we know Cersei's not the most interested in history, it wouldn't surprise me if she only recalls he was a king.

a good suggestion, but i feel the granting of the lannister name itself is sufficient to acknowledge his familial membership. (as opposed to just disposing of the abomination)

whatever cersei thinks, tywin would be well versed on both the alleged behaviour of an historical lannister king, and the possible wider implications of its attachment to another.

personally, i ascribe the name as a mistake by the author/s, as of course in reality 'tywin' did not name 'tyrion', it was retrospective.

the tywin we get to know would not choose the name tyrion, but once published, the die is cast.

[Annarkie]

It also could be possible that Joanna named him before she died. Likely when she was still pregnant. "If it's a girl, I want Calipso (making a pun on Cersei's name bearing resemblance to the witch in The Odyssey) and if it's a boy, Tyrion."

It has been stated multiple times in the text that Twin loved his wife, so I could see him going with the name she chose because of that.

[The Blue Knight]

the desire to use a lannister name, at least one seemingly so in the last few generations was not so strong he acted upon it when naming his first son and heir, that would be hoped to continue the main branch of the lannisters of the rock.

Jaime is a Lannister name as well, and Joanna's (and possible Tywin's) first choice name. The fact that Tyrion was not a common name in the last few generations means nothing.

I don't think I can saying anything more to prove my point. Your original question was why Tywin named the son he hated after himself, and I responded saying that Tyrion was one of many Lannister names. I think that now we just have two different opinions.

[Sword of the Morgan]

Tyrion isn't a version of Tywin tho. It's a traditional Lannister name that hasn't been used for a long time, and has a bad association.

This.

[DSB]

It also could be possible that Joanna named him before she died. Likely when she was still pregnant. "If it's a girl, I want Calipso (making a pun on Cersei's name bearing resemblance to the witch in The Odyssey) and if it's a boy, Tyrion."

It has been stated multiple times in the text that Twin loved his wife, so I could see him going with the name she chose because of that.

true, as i mused earlier, tywin was said to be truly in love with joanne, but honouring her memory and wishes does not seem to top tywins list of priorities.

unless shun and shame our son were among her deathbed bequeaths.

indeed, even while alive tywin behaved in ways that would hardly please a typical westerosi ladylike lady.

[Maester Mando]

There wee some kings of the rock with the name tyrion lannister

[Kienn]

Or Joanna named him... You think Tywin would have gone against her last wish?

[DSB]

Jaime is a Lannister name as well, and Joanna's (and possible Tywin's) first choice name. The fact that Tyrion was not a common name in the last few generations means nothing.

I don't think I can saying anything more to prove my point. Your original question was why Tywin named the son he hated after himself, and I responded saying that Tyrion was one of many Lannister names. I think that now we just have two different opinions.

indeed, differing opinions we do have, and i do not seek to convince others of mine, no need to prove ones opinion, only to hold it.

as i say above, my real world opinion is that it is among many inevitable mistakes in such a voluminous text, but in-universe i remain of the opinion that the naming is inexplicable.

[DSB]

Or Joanna named him... You think Tywin would have gone against her last wish?

yes, and many previous ones, if he considered them unsound.

just as he cared nothing for his fathers affections for his mistress, nor his sons wishes to be kg, nor his daughters to ......... well most of them.

he is stated as doting upon her alive, but not only does he appear a very literal man, insofar as once dead immediately forgotten; but even when alive there would have been balance between sating his wifes happiness and ensuring the lannister legacy thrives.

[DSB]

There wee some kings of the rock with the name tyrion lannister

and naming tyrion in line with such would serve no purpose tywin has.

[DSB]

This.

that.

tyrion is a version of tywin in the context that tywin is a version of tytos.

the thread title may lack clarity, obviously tyrion was not named after, as in identically to, tywin, but was given the lannister-evo nomenclature.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Tywin was likely grieving when he named him. I'm sure he didn't think that through, simply chose the first name he could remember that didn't bring happy memories. Also, remember that they thought Tyrion wouldn't live long.

Not every name is meant to have a meaning. Look at "Rhaegar". No King had been named Rhaegar before. Does that mean that he was not a rightful heir to Aerys' eyes? They probably simply liked the name. Rhaegar, otoh, gave his son a "kingly" name.

[GallowsKnight]

no, what we know is it defies them

Jaime. Gerion. Janei. Joanna. Genna. Joy.

Theres clearly a tradition of j and soft g names.