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ChillyPolly

Sansa, Her Quirky Perception & Memory, & the new "Hound"

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[Preliminary Note: I have begun to make certain edits, partly in response to comments below; but will try to indicate where this has been done via bold text. . I have also begun to add end-notes below, documenting certain statements from the text. Notes will be numbered in the order I add them, not in the order they appear in the text. Added 3/28/15]

Sansa is often noted to have quirky perceptions. I don't consider her less reliable than other narrators, but she does seem to be unreliable in specific ways. She may miss things that others see, as well as see things that others miss. I suspect this foreshadows an identity-confusion subplot involving Sandor and another character. The indications of this are as follows:

(1) Sansa is skilled at recognizing people by their external emblems, and demonstrates this skill with Renly and Barristan. This may foreshadow her being MISLED by such externalities, which are easily switched and changed

(2) Sandor, is known for certain superficial external signs, such as helm, scars, horse. He has lost the helm, the scars have been altered by new injuries and perhaps partly healed by the Elder Brother, & who knows what will become of the horse.

(3) Sansa spends most of her time trying not to look at Sandor, because he frightens her.1

(4) Sansa has an ability to "look without seeing" at things that frighten her (such as her father's head on a spike). When she is forced to look at it, she is able to protect herself from psychological trauma by convincing herself that it does not really look like her father at all.2

(5) When she is forced to look at Sandor, Sansa's focus is on the things that frighten her, such as the rage in his eyes, and the scars on his face.3 These things may have been partly healed by the Elder Brother, and/or altered by new facial wounds.4

(6) Even so, she does not see his facial injuries accurately. She thinks he has no ear left, only a hole where his ear once was; this is not true.5 This seems to indicate that she is so focused on his wounds that she fails to accurately see what is left of his face.

(7) The subjectivity of her perception of facial features is again demonstrated with Joffrey. She thinks she is in love with him, but what she is in love with is an ideal. When she realizes he is a monster, she perceives for the first time that he has fat wormy lips. 6

(8) Sansa has already briefly mistaken the voice of another man (Lothor Brune) for that of Sandor. 7

(9) The "unkiss"8 is another indication that Sansa's memory may be unreliable where Sandor is concerned.

(10) Sandor's "Hound" identity appears to have moved on, without Sandor, first to Rorge, then to Lem [& then to Whom???].

(11) Bran's dream in AGOT seems to predict Sansa being menaced by 3 "shadows".9 The term "shadow" may refer to revenants like UnCat ("A grimmer shadow leads us now"10). This seems to be confirmed by evidence that one of the 3 shadows may be UnGregor (Robert Strong). That the "shadow with the terrible face of a hound" is not Sandor, is suggested by the fact that "Sandor the Hound" and "Robert Strong" are not contemporary. The Elder Brother's words suggest that Sandor no longer embodies what "the Hound" represents. By that point, the Hound identity has moved on to other people? So (if this is what Brans dream implies) who is this Undead Hound who will menace Sansa?

(12) With her large, masculine build Brienne seems custom-designed as a male-impersonator, though so far she and the author have never tried to take advantage of this for any purpose. She also has, or is developing, a huge number of parallels to Sandor: (a.) is about 6 foot 8 inches with broad shoulders, (b.) has horrible injuries on half her face; (c.) Has a forearm in a cast; (d.) has sword wound to her upper thigh; (e.) blue eyes that may appear grey depending on the light or the changes of undeath; (f.) appears to be Sandor's age -- ie. seems to have aged 10 years; (g.) death by hanging may result in a rough voice and visible injuries around the throat and neck; (h.) knows where to find Sandor's horse Stranger (who likes to bite ears off strawhead blonds); (i.) has served in a kingsguard without ever having actually been a knight, and (j) was recently seen in the vicinity of the Hound helm. Her sex will be a minimal disadvantage to an undead person, who does not even need to use the privy. The most important feature that seems to distinguish her from Sandor is her fat lips; and this oddly seems to recall Sansa's strange experience with noticing Joffrey's fat lips for the first time, after realizing he was a monster (Sansa has never noticed or described Sandor's lips at all, except in the context of remembering a kiss that never happened).

(13) To add further to the confusion, Brienne has features in common with the last known "Hound", Lem: fat lips and badly-broken nose. Lem in turn may have features in common with Sandor (such as a snarly way of talking and stained faded cloak that used to be green). All 3 are built like large warriors. GRRM may be planning to have The Hound show up, in Sansa or another characters POV, and keep his fans guessing as to who it really is. Hence, any fans who suspect the Hound is not Sandor have Lem as a red herring alternative.

(14) There are other reasons to suspect Brienne is undead. (a.) People don't normally survive hangings, and UnBeric (an undead) is the sole known "exception". (b.) UnCat's execution order (Hang them) was not conditional, and UnCat was not present to countermand the order when Brienne screamed "sword". (c.) Absent a countermand from UnCat, a hardened executioner like Lem is not likely to cut Brienne down just because she screams something desperate in her last moments thats routine for executioners; (d.) Later, she looks awful when seen by Jaime in ADWD. (e.) Before her hanging, she was linked to a number of death-themed dreams involving her and/or Jaime, including a dream where she was menaced by a legendary sorcerer famed for the animation and enslavement of the dead. (f.) Another dream involves her watching helplessly while a "shadow" (striking, it seems, from her direction) cuts down a man who looks like Renly but who is not Renly. (g.) Consistent with other revenants, Briennes POV seems to have ceased with her hanging (she had no POV in aDwD)

(also no Brienne POV chapters have been reliably rumored for the coming volume)

; (h.) We have the following odd sequence: Ser Bonifer warns Jaime that a revenant cannot harm a man who arms himself in his faith. Then Jaime meets Lancel who invites him to repent and serve the Seven, and Jaime refuses. Then Brienne comes to Jaime at midnight, seemingly luring him to his death. Coincidence?

(15) GRRM has said in interviews that revenants (like UnBeric and UnCat) lose humanity but are driven by oaths and mission. This dovetails nicely with Brienne, because she is definitely driven by oaths and missions; and particularly by a mission of vengeance since she swore to take Renly's sword and kill Renly's slayer (Stannis). She swore this 3 times, and later reminds Catelyn of this fact. Catelyn in turn swears to Brienne that she will allow her to pursue Stannis, if she first fulfils other duties to Catelyn. In this context, she swears to serve Catelyn, and hunt Sansa. Her dying scream "sword" represents the oath "take the sword and kill the kingslayer", which echoes her original oath concerning Stannis, but extends it to other people including (but perhaps not limited to) Jaime. Catelyn's oath that she would not not keep Brienne from Stannis (provided she fulfilled other oaths first) may in turn motivate UnCat to order Thoros to give Brienne the kiss of fire (foreshadowed by Hyle Hunt: "Your lips were made for kissing") or give it herself if Thoros refuses, just as UnBeric may have done the same to Catelyn in part to fulfil his oath to Arya and/or loyalty to Ned.

(16). At one point, Sansa remembers that Sandor was Joffrey's sworn shield for years, and wonders how he feels about her being (at least by reputation) King Joffrey's slayer. This fear or expectation dovetails with what is likely to happen with an inhuman, oath-driven UnBrienne: She will come searching for Sansa, wearing the "Hound" helm, to fulfil her oath to Catelyn to find Sansa and/or kill kingslayers, which she is oath-bound to fulfill before she can pursue Stannis.

(17). Brienne's fate is somehow linked to Jaime's, which provides even more foreshadowing of death and undeath: (a.) Jaimes weirwood-stump dream shows Jaime and Brienne trapped together in a sort of underworld; (b.) Jaime may be a third shadow from Bran's dream -- the shadow in armor like the sun; (c.) the valonquar prophesy has the valonqar strangle Cersei with hands (plural); so if Jaime is the valonqar of the prophesy, this suggests the inanimate will be magically animated; (d.) Jaimes Lancel and Kettleback and Moonboy mantra may foreshadow the death-list of an undead monster, and Lancels dream (that Jaime would come to kill him) may be prophetic; (e.) Jaime has been missing for weeks without us learning what became of his encounter with Brienne, suggesting his POV has ceased; meanwhile.

Also no Jaime POV has been reliably rumored for the coming volume

; (f.) one handed, Jaime is no match for Brienne or UnBrienne, and slaying him (not capturing him and bringing him to UnCat as so many fans imagine) is her assigned mission; (g.) Jaime's savior fantasies may dovetail with the AA prophesy; meanwhile, an animated golden hand may be perfect for holding a flaming sword; (h.) Another of Brans dreams shows creatures that once were Lions, but have become twisted and grotesque.

18. [added 4/2/2015] In the just-released sample chapter

it is revealed that there will be a tournament in the Vale, with intrigue involving some mystery knight who will receive Sansa's favor (as part of Petyr's scheme to make Harrold the Heir jealous), and that hedge knights may participate in the melee. This will provide an opportunity for either Sandor or Brienne to appear in a context where that person may be seen by Sansa under circumstances where she cannot interact with such person closely.



-------------------------------------
End-Notes
1 At the Trident, Sansa turns to look at him only because she thinks her dad is behind her. When Sandor asks "You are shaking, girl, ... Do I frighten you that much?", the narrator says "He did, and had since she first laid eyes on the ruin that fire had made of his face ...". Bk1,Ch15 (Sansa I).
At the Tourney, when Joffrey leaves her alone with Sandor, narrator states "Sansa could FEEL the Hound watching her"; which of course implies she is refusing to look. As she accompanies him, "She kept her eyes lowered, watching where she placed her feet"; this is probably because "Sansa could not bear the sight of him, he frightened her so ....". A page or so later, she looks at his face only because he forces her, and he accuses her of refusing to look at him: "I've watched you turning away all the way down the kingsroad. Piss on that!". After looking, "Sansa began to cry. He let go of ther then ...". Bk1.Ch.29 (Sansa II).
Even after Sandor rescues her from the crowd, this remains an issue between them. When Sansa meets Sandor on Maegor's Holdfast, the night before her "flowering", "She glanced away", when she realized who it was, which prompts Sandor to say "The little bird still can't bear to look at me, can she?" In response, "She made herself look at that face now, really look. It was only courteous ..." She realizes then that the anger in his eyes is the scariest thing about him, worse than the scars of the twitching of his mouth. Bk2,Ch52 (Sansa IV).
And it remains an issue in their final encounter: She says "Let me go, you're scaring me", and he again forces her to look: "Everything scares you. Look at me. Look at me." She obeys: "The blood masked the worse of his scars, but his eyes were white and wide and terrifying." When he yanks her closer, she thinks he means to kiss her and "She closed her yes, wanting it to be over". This enrages Sandor: "Still can't bear to look, can you?". Note that the room is very dark, so she cannot see him well in any event: "The room was too dark for her to see him,..." Bk2,Ch67 (Sansa VI).
[Added 3/28/15]
2"He can make me look at the heads, she told herself, but he can't make me see them." Then, when forced her to look at her father's head: "Sansa looked at it calmly, not seeing it at all. It did not really look like Lord Eddard, she thought; it did not even look real." Bk1,Ch67 (Sansa VI).
[Added 3/28/15]
3 See .e.g. Bk1Ch28 (Sansa II) ("His eyes watched hers. Drunken eyes. Sullen with anger"); Bk2Ch52 (SansaIV) ("The scars are not the worst part, nor even the way his mouth twitches. It's his eyes"); Bk2,Ch67 (Sansa VI) ("his eyes were wide and white and terrifying") [Added 3/29/15]
4 On the Quiet Isle, Narbert tells Brienne: ""The Seven have blessed our Elder Brother with healing hands. He has restored many a man to health that even the maesters could not cure ... ". The Elder Brother hints at a psychological healing as well, saying that "The man you hunt is dead", and that "The Hound died there, in my arms"; but that Sandor Clegane "is at rest", speaking of the Hound's rage and hate only in the past tense, and offering his own example as an analogy for what happened to Sandor. Bk4,Ch31 (Brienne VI).
[Added:3/29/15]
4
5 Compare Bk1,Ch29 (Sansa II) ("His ear had been burned away; there was nothing left but a hole") to the injury he sustains in Bk3,Ch74 *(Arya XIII) ("The burned side of his face ran red from temple to cheek, and the stub of his ear was gone.")
6 See Bk1,Ch67 (Sansa VI) ("She wondered how she could ever have thought him handsome. His lips were as soft and red as the worms hou found after a rain, and his eyes were vain and cruel." and later "smirking at her with those fat wormlips").
[Added 3/29/15]

7 This occurs at Littlefingers estate on the Fingers when Lothor's "rough voice" rescues Sansa from Marillion. See Bk3,Ch68 (Sansa VI). When Lother speaks a second time, Sansa recognizes him, and thinks: "Not the Hound's, no, how could it be? Of course it had to be Lothor ...".
[Added 3/30/15]

8 Fan term for Sansa's false memory of a kiss that never happened. Sansa and Sandor never in fact kiss during their final encounter - she had thought he was about to kiss her, but he put a knife to her throat instead. See Bk2,Ch64 (SansaVII). Later, however, she recalls him kissing her, and it is unclear if she has suppressed the memory of the knife. See, e.g., Bk3,Ch17 ("He kissed me and threatened to kill me, and made me sing him a song."). In a SO SPAKE MARTIN entry dated Jun 26, 2001, GRRM confirmed that this is a false memory, and not a mistake: http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/SF_Targaryens_Valyria_Sansa_Martells_and_More/ [added 4/3/2015]

9 Bk1,Ch18 (Bran III): http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1791 [added 4/3/2015]

10 So Thoros tells Brienne in her last POV chapter. Bk4,Ch43. He presumably means that Lady Stoneheart is a grimmer "shadow" than Beric was.

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I just thought of something. What if Undead Cat gave Brienne the kiss of life like Beric Dondarrion did for her? Is this not a possibility? Also, its true that most people will not survive a hanging, but if she was still able to scream a word, the noose had not cut off her air yet so she wouldn't be dead.



I have to say though that I find your post most fascinating. Excellent, really.


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The undead hound would be Robert Strong. Gregor Clegane that is. (IMHO)

The sigil of their house is 3 dogs.

This thought seems to be ruled out by the fact that Robert Strong can hardly be 2 of the 3 shadows in the dream at the same time. Robert Strong is apparently the really big figure that looms over the other two shadows. He is (apparently) the giant in armor made of stone whose visor contains only darkness and thick black blood. At least, that's the theory, and not merely my own.

Since Robert Strong cannot loom over himself, he cannot be the shadow Hound.

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It's possible Brienne's time as a POV character is over. I really like the idea of Jaime reappearing in King's Landing without us knowing he is undead, on a mission to pay his debt to Catelyn Stark. As much as I like King Tommen, Cat's dialogue with Walder Frey had repeated mentions of trading a son for a son, and that could extend to Jaime as well.



All sorts of things could happen with Sansa. If she runs away with Shadrich she could pass through the Queit Isles to see the actual Sandor or she could pass through the Riverlands and meet Brienne whom she mistakes for Sandor, especially if Brienne introduces herself by cutting Shadrich's arm off or nearly in half. Even if she doesn't mistake Brienne for Sandor she'd still be likely to go with Brienne if they're already out in the wilderness or some remote part of the king's road.


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All sorts of things could happen with Sansa. If she runs away with Shadrich she could pass through the Queit Isles to see the actual Sandor or she could pass through the Riverlands and meet Brienne whom she mistakes for Sandor, especially if Brienne introduces herself by cutting Shadrich's arm off or nearly in half. Even if she doesn't mistake Brienne for Sandor she'd still be likely to go with Brienne if they're already out in the wilderness or some remote part of the king's road.

While I am not daring enough to venture any details like those above, I fully expect Sansa to meet up with Sandor at some point. I think the implications of what I have posted above is that when she sees him, she will not recognize him (and that conversely, she will think Brienne is Sandor).

The clues we have indicate that (1) Sandor may have taken a vow of silence; (2) the practice of the Brothers is to maintain their vows of silence even when they leave the isle to serve the community; (3) he probably wears wrappings over the lower half of his face to symbolize his vow; and (4)the upper half of his face has been re-injured, and re-healed by the Elder Brother, whose healing powers are reputed to exceed those of the maesters.

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This is a very impressive theory. When I first read Jaime's last chapter my immediate thought was that Brienne had been ressurrected UnCat style, but I really like Brienne and Jaime and don't want them to die. Unfortunately what I want doesn't seem to match what ends up happening... (sigh)

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I don't want Brienne or Sandor dead, so I'm still hopeful (I'm sure GRRM will tromp all over that in Winds). The similarities between Brienne and Sandor are striking, though--good eye! I hadn't noticed most of those. I am curious as to how Sansa will come back into the game after her creepy interlude in the Vale.


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I haven't read the books so maybe why this is why I don't really understand the point of this thread, as much as I love Sansa.

Can someone dumb this down for me? I'm going to have to read this at least one more time.

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I haven't read the books so maybe why this is why I don't really understand the point of this thread, as much as I love Sansa.

Can someone dumb this down for me? I'm going to have to read this at least one more time.

dude, if you havent read the books and are surfing threads, youre gonna have a bad time :P

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dude, if you havent read the books and are surfing threads, youre gonna have a bad time [emoji14]

I've had a pretty easy time these past few months. I think its because I'm tired and the OP was really long that I think it was a lot to take in. Its Sansa though, my favorite GoT character of all time, I'll get it soon.

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I've had a pretty easy time these past few months. I think its because I'm tired and the OP was really long that I think it was a lot to take in. Its Sansa though, my favorite GoT character of all time, I'll get it soon.

you want me to break it down? half of this wont be mentioned in the show but would give away story

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you want me to break it down? half of this wont be mentioned in the show but would give away story

If you don't mind, I plan to read the books soon, I don't mind being spoiled along the way.

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basically when bran's crippled from being pushed out the window by jaime, he has a dream with metaphorical symbols. the OP is theorizing these symbols are yet to come, however, i theorize all of them took place already.



-bran dreams of 3 shadows, one of them had the face of a hound (*sandor, ill get to the asterisk in a minute)


-another one was gold, as bright as the sun (i speculated jaime)


-another was huge and loomed over them both, and when he opened his visor it was empty except for black blood (gregor's head is removed after oberyn's poison kills him, and delivered to dorne. later, a huge knight of the kingsguard appears out of nowhere, wont remove his helm, and has taken a vow of silence. qyburn the necromancer introduces him, qyburn also working on gregor's body. its insinuated the headless huge shadow in brans dream is gregor, now called, ser robert strong)



*the shadow with the face of the hound. one would think sandor, although, "The Hound" is said to have been laid to rest by someone brienne meets, this person left the armor and helm on his grave. the helm itself, is taken by the brave companions, so one of them could run amok and everyone would think it's sandor


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basically when bran's crippled from being pushed out the window by jaime, he has a dream with metaphorical symbols. the OP is theorizing these symbols are yet to come, however, i theorize all of them took place already.

-bran dreams of 3 shadows, one of them had the face of a hound (*sandor, ill get to the asterisk in a minute)

-another one was gold, as bright as the sun (i speculated jaime)

-another was huge and loomed over them both, and when he opened his visor it was empty except for black blood (gregor's head is removed after oberyn's poison kills him, and delivered to dorne. later, a huge knight of the kingsguard appears out of nowhere, wont remove his helm, and has taken a vow of silence. qyburn the necromancer introduces him, qyburn also working on gregor's body. its insinuated the headless huge shadow in brans dream is gregor, now called, ser robert strong)

*the shadow with the face of the hound. one would think sandor, although, "The Hound" is said to have been laid to rest by someone brienne meets, this person left the armor and helm on his grave. the helm itself, is taken by the brave companions, so one of them could run amok and everyone would think it's sandor

Ok thanks for dumbing it down, it was easier to grasp.

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Ok thanks for dumbing it down, it was easier to grasp.

no problem bro. pick up the book, the show is like 40% of whats really going on

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If you don't mind, I plan to read the books soon, I don't mind being spoiled along the way.

In a nutshell, the theory holds that (1) Sansa does not know Sandor's face very well; (2) Sandor will become a new (and better) person and adopt a new identity; (3) Another person will adopt Sandor's old "The Hound" identity, and become a monster; (4) Sansa (and perhaps the reader, seeing things through Sansa's eyes) will not know the difference for some time.

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Ok seeing as to do this on the other thread would be too far OT here goes.

Sansa is often noted to have quirky perceptions. I dont consider her less reliable than other narrators, but she does seem to be unreliable in specific ways. She may miss things that others see, as well as see things that others miss. I suspect this foreshadows an identity-confusion subplot involving Sandor and another character. The indications of this are as follows:

No, she does not miss things that others see as well as see things others miss. She has fabricated a sexual fantasy about a man she desires. This does not indicate that she is anything other than a normal teenager, as it is a thing lots of teens do. And a sword name, gee man really? cos of course its totally weird to misremember a thing like that :wacko:
(1) Sansa is skilled at recognizing people by their external emblems, and demonstrates this skill with Renly and Barristan. This may foreshadow her being MISLED by such externalities, which are easily switched and changed

To assume that because Sansa is skilled at recognising small details she has been taught about a person, house sigils ect means she is dozy enough to not realise that someone may not always be the person they present as, ie wearing the wrong sigil etc is just silly. Its so silly I can't believe you even wrote that.

(2) Sandor, is known for certain superficial signs, such as helm, scars, horse. He has lost the helm, the scars have been altered by new injuries and perhaps partly healed by the Elder Brother, & who knows what will become of the horse.

Erm, No, Sandors scars are so bad you can see his jaw and teeth as part of his cheek is completely gone! not superficial at all, He got lots of new injuries sure, but I doubt very much extra scars will render him unrecognisable to the one person who thinks about him daily. He still has his horse, the helm is lost to him, sure but I doubt very much someone else popping up wearing it would fool Sansa into thinking they are him.

(3) Sansa spends most of her time trying not to look at Sandor, because he frightens her.

No Sansa starts out unable to look at his face, as its pretty gross, but she looks eventually and at the end when she closes her eyes it is not to avoid seeing his face. She got over that quite some time ago. And again she thinks of him every damn day, she fantasises about him, she knows his face.


(4) Sansa has an ability to "look without seeing" at things that frighten her (such as her father's head on a spike). When she is forced to look at it, she is able to protect herself from psychological trauma by convincing herself that it does not really look like her father at all.

this is not some mystical abillity, Sansa used this tactic when forced to look at her fathers head on a spike, and told herself it does not really look like him at all, as a way to avoid deep and disturbing trauma. She knows full well that head was her daddy. It was an act of self preservation, not some special skill she can pull out of her bag of tricks. It is something most people would try to do, and trying and telling yourself is not some magic wand waving party trick.


(5) When she is forced to look at Sandor, Sansa's focus is on the things that frighten her, such as the rage in his eyes, and the scars on his face. These things may have been partly healed by the Elder Brother, and/or altered by new facial wounds.

She tells us about these things, firstly as she is the person who gives us the in depth description of Sandor. Someone has to and Sansa makes perfect sense if you accept the romantic aspect to their story. The fact she notes them, and the Elder Brother is counselling Sandor and so he won't be as angry is not an indicator that somehow his lack of rage would render him unrecognisable to her.

(6) Even so, she does not see his facial injuries accurately. She thinks he has no ear left, only a hole where his ear once was. This is not true. This seems to indicate that she is so focussed on his wounds that she fails to accurately see what is left of his face.

Well his wiki description says it is true. Now I am not saying this means it is 100% true, but as I don't have my books to check I'm gonna go with it. "It seems to indicate" being the operative phrase. You think is seems to indicate this. i don't To me it seems to indicate that his scaring is pretty darn extensive and she noticed that. And as it says in the Wiki he indeed does only have one ear, then your argument that she is seeing things which are not there is BS.

(7) The subjectivity of her perception of facial features is again demonstrated with Joffrey. She thinks she is in love with him, but what she is in love with is an ideal. When she realizes he is a monster, she perceives for the first time that he has fat wormy lips.

No, it is totally normal to interpret people you hates looks as gross, even if they really aren't. She says his lips are fat and wormy after she begins to hate him, but he is a handsome lad and we know this because other POV's also say so. he is described as pouty lipped. so I'd say he has a full mouth. Now as a person with a full mouth I can assure you that the interpretation of this alters depending upon the person who is describing you's opinion of you. Some lads used to say I had a really sexy mouth, some made fun and called me mick Jagger, others rubber dingy lips. Others whispered I had BJ lips. All depends upon the persons view of you. Not an indicator that she misses things and only realises he has big lips after she starts hating him.

(8) Sansa has already briefly mistaken the voice of another man (Lothor Brune) for that of Sandor.

This only indicates that she is thinking of him constantly, because you know, she is besotted with him.

(9) The "unkiss" is another indication that Sansa's memory may be unreliable where Sandor is concerned.

Yea, it indicates she wishes she had kissed him. It doesn't indicate she will suddenly forget what his face looks like, or anything else about him. :rolleyes:

(10) Sandor's "Hound" identity appears to have moved on, without Sandor, first to Rorge, then to Lem [& then to Whom???].

Yea, so what. How does the fact other people are wearing the helm effect her abillity to recognise him. Even Jaime says he doesn't see the Hound doing the things he hears of.

(11) Bran's dream in AGOT seems to predict Sansa being menaced by 3 "shadows". The term "shadow" may refer to revenants like UnCat ("A grimmer shadow leads us now"). This seems to be confirmed by evidence that one of the 3 shadows may be UnGregor (Robert Strong). That the "shadow with the terrible face of a hound" is not Sandor, is suggested by the fact that "Sandor the Hound" and "Robert Strong" are not contemporary. The Elder Brother's words suggesting that Sandor no longer embodies what "the Hound" represents. By that point, the Hound identity has moved on to other people? So (if this is what Brans dream implies) who is this Undead Hound who will menace Sansa?

This entire paragraph rests upon the word May

(12) With her large, masculine build Brienne seems custom-designed as a male-impersonator, though so far she and the author have never tried to take advantage of this for any purpose. She also has, or is developing, a huge number of parallels to Sandor: (a.) is about 6 foot 8 inches with broad shoulders, (b.) has horrible injuries on half her face; (c.) Has a forearm in a cast; (d.) has sword wound to her upper thigh; (e.) blue eyes that may appear grey depending on the light or the changes of undeath; (f.) appears to be Sandor's age -- ie. seems to have aged 10 years; (g.) death by hanging may result in a rough voice and visible injuries around the throat and neck; (h.) knows where to find Sandor's horse Stranger (who likes to bite ears off strawhead blonds); (i.) has served in a kingsguard without ever having actually been a knight, and (j) was recently seen in the vicinity of the Hound helm. Her sex will be a minimal disadvantage to an undead person, who does not even need to use the privy. The most important feature that seems to distinguish her from Sandor is her fat lips; and this oddly seems to recall Sansa's strange experience with noticing Joffrey's fat lips for the first time, after realizing he was a monster (Sansa has never noticed or described Sandor's lips at all, except in the context of remembering a kiss that never happened).

The only thing I agree with you about at all, is that Brienne seems to be being set up to be mistaken for the Hound. But I really do notthink there is a hope in all seven hells thats Sansa would be fooled. Not for a second.

(13) To add further to the confusion, Brienne has features in common with the last known "Hound", Lem: fat lips and badly-broken nose. Lem in turn may have features in common with Sandor (such as a snarly way of talking and stained faded cloak that used to be green). All 3 are built like large warriors. GRRM may be planning to have The Hound show up, in Sansa or another characters POV, and keep his fans guessing as to who it really is. Hence, any fans who suspect the Hound is not Sandor have Lem as a red herring alternative.

Do you even know what you are trying to infer here?

(14) There are other reasons to suspect Brienne is undead. (a.) People don't normally survive hangings, and UnBeric (an undead) is the sole known "exception". (b.) UnCat's execution order (Hang them) was not conditional, and UnCat was not present to countermand the order when Brienne screamed "sword". (c.) Absent a countermand from UnCat, a hardened executioner like Lem is not likely to cut Brienne down just because she screams something desperate in her last moments thats routine for executioners; (d.) Later, she looks awful when seen by Jaime in ADWD. (e.) Before her hanging, she was linked to a number of death-themed dreams involving her and/or Jaime, including a dream where she was menaced by a legendary sorcerer famed for the animation and enslavement of the dead. (f.) Another dream involves her watching helplessly while a "shadow" (striking, it seems, from her direction) cuts down a man who looks like Renly but who is not Renly. (g.) Consistent with other revenants, Briennes POV seems to have ceased with her hanging (she had no POV in aDwD)

(also no Brienne POV chapters have been reliably rumored for the coming volume)

; (h.) We have the following odd sequence: Ser Bonifer warns Jaime that a revenant cannot harm a man who arms himself in his faith. Then Jaime meets Lancel who invites him to repent and serve the Seven, and Jaime refuses. Then Brienne comes to Jaime at midnight, seemingly luring him to his death. Coincidence?

As has already been explained, Brienne was not hung by the break your neck method, but the slow suffocation method. Plenty of time to cut her down after she says sword. It was conditional, she gave her an ultimatum, and she chose sword. Lem is no hardened executioner, he is just a fella. She says the word that LSH gave her as an option to save herself and Hyle & Pod. Why would he just keep on hanging them? This assumption is based on nothing but your opinion. Yea so would you under the circumstances. jeez! The "death" themed dream she appears in of Jaime's shows her with her sword still alight and his dream tells him when the swords go out you will die. meaning she is still alive at the end of his dream and he is dead. Her dream regarding renly, is her remembering Stannis's shadow killing him. So A shadow which looked like Renly but was not him is dun dun dun.....his BROTHER!! She has no POV in ADWD, well nor does Sam, or Sansa, or Damp Hair. So are you assuming them dead too? You can't just decide anyone who isn't in ADWD is an undead zombie. your basing it on Sweet FA! What rumours about TWOW again you are making this up. Just because no one has confirmed there will be a Brienne chapter does not mean there will not. That is false logic. I have no clue what you are even attempting to imply with your Jaime nonsense.

(15) GRRM has said in interviews that revenants (like UnBeric and UnCat) lose humanity but are driven by oaths and mission. This dovetails nicely with Brienne, because she is definitely driven by oaths and missions; and particularly by a mission of vengeance since she swore to take Renly's sword and kill Renly's slayer (Stannis). She swore this 3 times, and later reminds Catelyn of this fact. Catelyn in turn swears to Brienne that she will allow her to pursue Stannis, if she first fulfils other duties to Catelyn. In this context, she swears to serve Catelyn, and hunt Sansa. Her dying scream "sword" represents the oath "take the sword and kill the kingslayer", which echoes her original oath concerning Stannis, but extends it to other people including (but perhaps not limited to) Jaime. Catelyn's oath that she would not not keep Brienne from Stannis (provided she fulfilled other oaths first) may in turn motivate UnCat to order Thoros to give Brienne the kiss of fire (foreshadowed by Hyle Hunt: "Your lips were made for kissing") or give it herself if Thoros refuses, just as UnBeric may have done the same to Catelyn in part to fulfil his oath to Arya and/or loyalty to Ned.

Well this entire paragraph is based upon your unsubstantiated assumption that she is a zombie. So no.

(16). At one point, Sansa remembers that Sandor was Joffrey's sworn shield for years, and wonders how he feels about her being (at least by reputation) King Joffrey's slayer. This fear or expectation dovetails with what is likely to happen with an inhuman, oath-driven UnBrienne: She will come searching for Sansa, wearing the "Hound" helm, to fulfil her oath to Catelyn to find Sansa and/or kill kingslayers, which she is oath-bound to fulfill before she can pursue Stannis.

No, it shows a person in love worrying that their beloved may hear things about them which would incline them to not reciprocate those feelings. And how is this fear in anyway connected to what an Unbrienne Hound ' a like might do???? and why would Sansa faced with a Brienne dressed as the Hound dressed as a Zombie for a second not realise it is not Sandor? Because like this is the girl who lays in bed dreaming of the dude?

(17). Briennes fate is somehow linked to Jaimes, which provides even more foreshadowing of death and undeath: (a.) Jaimes weirwood-stump dream shows Jaime and Brienne trapped together in a sort of underworld; (b.) Jaime may be a third shadow from Brans dream -- the shadow in armor like the sun; (c.) the valonquar prophesy has the valonqar strangle Cersei with hands (plural); so if Jaime is the valonqar of the prophesy, this suggests the inanimate will be magically animated; (d.) Jaimes Lancel and Kettleback and Moonboy mantra may foreshadow the death-list of an undead monster, and Lancels dream (that Jaime would come to kill him) may be prophetic; (e.) Jaime has been missing for weeks without us learning what became of his encounter with Brienne, suggesting his POV has ceased; meanwhile.

Also no Jaime POV has been reliably rumored for the coming volume

; (f.) one handed, Jaime is no match for Brienne or UnBrienne, and slaying him (not capturing him and bringing him to UnCat as so many fans imagine) is her assigned mission; (g.) Jaimes savior fantasies may dovetail with the AA prophesy; meanwhile, an animated golden hand may be perfect for holding a flaming sword; (h.) Another of Brans dreams shows creatures that once were Lions, but have become twisted and grotesque.

Well that's a lot of maybe's and supposition.

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