Can't Stand Sansa?

[Brandon Stark]

Sansa was a silly little girl whose attempts at playing a very adult game brought her entire life and family falling down on her head. I think she was stupid and incredibly naive in AGoT, but to say her actions are unforgivable, to me, would require that she felt no remorse over the outcomes. Does she take full responsibility? Of course not. Anyone in the world would do everything they could to put off having to take full responisibility for such an event, preferably forever.

I have to say I totally agree with the "type" of person Sansa is portrayed as being instant fodder for the downtrodden geek in many of us. Lots of students I teach "hate" the pretty girls in their classes even though the person in question is one of the nicer, and sometimes smarter, kids I teach. The same effect in reverse is seen as everyone decides Arya is hawt because her personality appeals more to them.

This of course is ironic because the rebellious female assassin of hawtness would not date them either. If you took Aeon Flux to the prom feel free to let me know I've made this assumption in error.

There are plenty of people who are much more worthy of such venom, even if you really did think that in real life Ned would have been your best friend/the man you'd marry and you'd spend countless hours drinking with him at the pub and learning through his admirable example while admiring his impressive jawline.

All in good humor, of course, but I've just never seen the need to hate someone like Sansa if you're placing her actions in any sort of context whatsoever, so either things must be out of context or there's a more subconscious motivation.

[rado907]

i don't like sansa much but generally her chapters have been interesting.

so let her live.

[Errant Bard]

Altho I'm not a Arya hater, I like bastards rivers analysis.

Sansa is being hated for behaving like a passive naive romantic young girl, which she is. And it seems Arya is being loved for behaving like a boy. I don't know what this tells us.

From my point of view, if I had daughters like that, both would irritate me equally, especially when they would be together. However none of them has redeeming flaws:

-Sansa is naive and superficial, but she would just grow up out, life has the faculty to impart some realism upon people.

-Arya is a strong willed tomboy, but likewise, by just growing up in a non-cataclysmic environment she would learn to bend a bit.

Considering what befalls both of them, and the similarity of their reactions during Harrendal for Arya and King's Landing for Sansa, perhaps their main difference is that Sansa is passive when Arya is active. Noone likes a follower/conformist presented as a hero (or at least a PoV character), but everyone likes a character who carves his own destiny, a "winner" or leader of sorts.

[oxmix]

SHE IS A STARK!! Why doesn't she act like one?

The only Stark characteristic I see is her father's stupidity. People that stupid usually don't live long in Westeros high society. Sansa has lived way too long already.

I hate Sansa so much I hope she dies of a mosquito bite and we only find out about it third hand. Or better yet, we never hear from Sansa again and only learn of the manner of her death when those poor misguided Sansa lovers ask GRRM about her at some book signing and he says: "Who? Oh.. ermm.. West Nile. Terrible thing. In other vastly more important news, I saved a bunch of money on my car insurance by switching to Geico."

Wow. That's hate.

Sansa is being hated for behaving like a passive naive romantic young girl, which she is. And it seems Arya is being loved for behaving like a boy. I don't know what this tells us.

[Stonehelm]

The only Stark characteristic I see is her father's stupidity. People that stupid usually don't live long in Westeros high society. Sansa has lived way too long already.

I do hate Sansa and I do think she is stupid...but I would not say the Ned was stupid. He was just an honorable man that refused to play by the rules of honorless men.

But getting back to Sansa...I dont think I want her to die, but I would love to see Ayra come back and be a queen or a head of the dragon or whatever. Just so long as she comes back and puts Sansa in her place. Sansa was always looking down on Ayra and so I think it would be sweet justice for Ayra to come back and slap Sansa around. Make Sansa look up to her.

[Ashara]

Sansa is being hated for behaving like a passive naive romantic young girl, which she is. And it seems Arya is being loved for behaving like a boy. I don't know what this tells us.

It tells us that Martin has a trouble with writing likable womanly female characters; in all honesty, all the female characters I like are manish, like Brienne, Arya, Meera, Ygritte... But Martin is nowhere as bad as Jordan. I'd say that Caetlyn portrail in earlier books was compelling and moved me to feel for her despite her treatment of Jon (which gave me a nasty shock when I read the first book after coming to like her a lot in the second one).

[redhead_ginny]

In the light of this being humourous, I won't get into too much...

And just so everyone knows, I flipping HATED Sansa during AGOTs. She annoyed the piss out of me. She's one of my favorite characters.

I think she's a naive little girl who got taken advantage of by some very manipulative people. She didn't sell out her family, per se...she made a mistake by trusting Cersei. She just let her know how upset she was that they were leaving. She didn't know why, she didn't really give out the circumstances, and didn't really know anything to reveal, other than that they were leaving. Cersei had so many spies that she would have figured it out anyway. It was a stupid mistake, not a betrayal.

She and Arya fight like sisters with differing personalities. And I don't think it had much to do with it being Sansa and Arya--I think everyone has issues with looking down on younger siblings. I did, a long time ago.

I think the quote that sums up Sansa is something along the lines of this:

"He can make me look at the head. But he can't make me see it."

If Arya had spent more time with the Queen and the nobles, and happened to look like Cat, she would have been caught up in it as well. Cersei, or Littlefinger, or <insert player in the game here> would have found some weakness to use against Arya. Then they'd manipulate that to use it against Ned, because they were afraid of him and the answers he was finding.

Even if she is obnoxious...man, she's had it tough. Most of it isn't really her fault, either. And she's what, thirteen? Fourteen? Give her a break, thats a lot of shit to deal with.

[Hark]

Sansa is to aSoIaF what QVC is to satellite TV.

[Paladin of Ice]

So I take it that no one posting in this thread was ever cruel or a snot to another kid while they were a kid? And that nobody here ever made a mistake while in love?

Because that's what the complaints about Sansa in GOT amount to. That she acted like a snot towards Arya in GOT because that was exactly the attitude her society, teachers, and parents taught her to have.

Secondly, she is a what, eleven, twelve year old who so desperately wants to believe that Joff is the perfect prince from her dreams that she fails to recognize his true nature. She should have learned after Lady's death, but some people need more than one lesson, or a harder one, to learn. Again though, I'm more than twice Sansa's age in GOT and still make some pretty goddamn dumb mistakes when it comes to love. Some 12 year old girl who has never been in love before is suppossed to know better why, exactly? Because being a Stark magically cures that?

Oh, and Sansa didn't kill Ned. Much as I love him, Ned killed Ned. He killed himself with some idiotic decisions. First, he sends away the bulk of his men on the hunt for Gregor. Here he is surrounded by enemies, who are willing to attack him physically, and what does he do? He orders the majority of his guards and fighting force out of the city on a wild goose chase. Just genius.

Second, Ned goes over to Cersie himself long before Sansa ever does and tells her exactly what he plans. Enough has said about this one already, so we'll just label this genius decision number 2.

Third, he turns down not one but two seperate offers that could have saved his life. The first coming from Renly, which did not mention at all anything like putting him on the throne or anything. Basically, all Renly says is "The second Robert dies Cersie will consolidate power and strike. Here's a hundred swords, lets strike first". Ned's response: "Naw, that's ok. Sure I told Cersie exactly what my plans are, and she has a hell of a lot more men than I do thanks to genius decision number 1, but I'm sure that things will turn out just fine somehow".

Ned's gods must have really liked him though, because after he throws that chance away they present him with another one in the form of Littlefinger's suggestion. Now, even if it Ned doesn't like LF's suggestion, wasn't he the one who said earlier in the book that a lie can be honorable if it's for a good cause? Well lie damnit! Get LF on board, then turn around to him afterwards and say "Sorry, I really hated misleading you, but it was for the good of the realm. It's a bitch, but what are you gonna do?" Instead he throws LF's offer back in his face and marches off to his own death.

All Sansa going to Cersie did was let Cersie know exactly when Ned was going to make his move instead of just having to be ready anytime, and give Cersie a hostage to use against Ned later, when he's trapped in a Black Cell and going to die anyway. So let's give this whole Sansa killed Ned thing a rest, ok?

Also, Sansa is stupid? She's annoying, naive, and not trained to use her brain, but stupid? I'm guessing none of you read AFFC, when she's following Littlefinger's schemes a lot better than any of the adults caught up in them...

And Sansa is the most loathsome character in the series? More loathsome than torturing sadists? More loathsome than a man who rapes his own daughters and leaves his sons to die of exposure? More loathsome than religious fanatics who burn people alive? Honestly, you guys who write this kind of stuff seriously need a serious reality check.

The irritating thing for me is I don't even like Sansa. Through the first two and a half books she set my teeth on edge the whole time, and only now is some hope for her emerging. Geez, like Syrio says, look with your eyes, rather than closing them and reacting with all this crap.

[Arakano]

Paladin of Ice, I swear you neverending loyalty for this brilliant post. :bow:

No, honestly, could not have said it any better.

I mean, Joffrey for example ORDERS Neds beheading, while Sansa had just the smallest part in delivering him to his enemies - and yet, I do not see a "I hate Joffrey"-Thread (ok, it´s self-explaining, but still, some people using the argument that "Sansa killed Ned"... yes, surely. ).

[Hark]

Sansa is to aSoIaF what Chrissy was to Three's Company.

[Jon Targaryen]

A few people have said Sansa feels regret for her actions. I just haven't seen it with regard to the Mycah incident and betraying her father.

[Kingslayer]

We're sort of pre-conditioned to look down on the popular homecoming Queens types, and hear so much talk about them being "mindless conformists" and "airheads".

I'll kindly ask that in future, you refrain from projecting your own issues onto others.

[oxmix]

Altho I'm not a Arya hater, I like bastards rivers analysis.

Sansa is being hated for behaving like a passive naive romantic young girl, which she is. And it seems Arya is being loved for behaving like a boy.

Why is it that when girls act strong, they are accused of behaving like boys?

[Bad Wolf]

Why is it that when girls act strong, they are accused of behaving like boys?

It's quite possible for a girl to act strong without being a tomboy and wielding weapons.

Likewise, waving a sword doesn't mean one is strong.

[jon tarkaryen]

So Jaime threw a small child out a window. Gregor is a psychopath. Cercie gets more like Henry VIII every day. But there is no one so lothsome as Sansa.

This kid had every advantage. The first opportunity she had to betray her family, she took. She isn't bad because her wolf died. Her wolf died because she is bad. She rejected her pack.

The lone wolf dies in the winter. For all you Sansa haters our there, what is the best way for her to go?

I say she gets the clap from the aptly named Little Finger, which she then gives to her Sweet Robin and half the Vale. The Vale folk throw stones at her, forcing her north, where she is attacked by Others. Jon then toasts her with dragon fire for a crispy end.

I hate sansa sooo much.I think he is more guilty for eddard death then cersei or joffrey or ilyn payne or anyone.

[Hark]

Sansa is to aSoIaF what Geraldo is to journalism.

[Gravity Gun]

I don't think she's a very interesting character so far, but I don't hate her. If her head is a little too full of hot air, that's her parents' fault for pumping it for so long.

My interest in her is this: who's the younger and more beautiful queen that's supposed to replace Cersei? Everything points to Dany. Or perhaps even Margaery. Yet Sansa, if LF's machinations come to fruition, could conceivably still be a wild card.

[Nikodemus]

I don´t hate Sansa. The reason why she seems so boring, weak and irritating is because she´s got a so "cool" sister.

[Cynon]

She was designed to be irritating, naive and arrogant. But she was believable as a character and made us react to her decisions. Also she is growing, showing intelligence, willingness to adapt and survive. Atleast she is learing from her mistakes, which she has paid dearly for. Not to mention that her actions were motivated by human emotion rather than stoic, cold, boring honor.

As a person she annoyed the hell out of me(atleast in AGOT) but at the moment she is one of the more interesting characters, far more so than Arya.