Karsa stark Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Apologies if this has been gone over a thousand times, but has it been categorically proven that Elia Martell is dead? I was just reading a septa Lamore theory and thought Elia would be a good fit...If we're willing to accept aegon was swapped out... Why not Elia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Apologies if this has been gone over a thousand times, but has it been categorically proven that Elia Martell is dead?I was just reading a septa Lamore theory and thought Elia would be a good fit...If we're willing to accept aegon was swapped out... Why not Elia?Elia's an easy one to recognize. I don't think it's possible, even though I love her and I'd love to see her alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Boy would Oberyn and Doran’s faces be red if this turned out to be the case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daena the Defiant Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If Elia Martell and her son were alive, why would they be in hiding as itinerant refugees instead of safe with her family in Sunspear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Also , Gregor loudly confessed to it , he had no reason to lie and he was so furious that I don't think that he lied during Oberyn's duel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Also her dead body was seen by dozens of people who knew her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Also her dead body was seen by dozens of people who knew her. But I wander , where is her body? And bodies of her children? What happend to them? Are they in crypts of Sunspear or had funeral at KL ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alayne's Shadow. Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 But I wander , where is her body? And bodies of her children? What happend to them? Are they in crypts of Sunspear or had funeral at KL ? In the show!, their bodies are at King's Landing. I believe in the books, they must have sent at least Elia's back to the Martells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolorous22 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 But I wander , where is her body? And bodies of her children? What happend to them? Are they in crypts of Sunspear or had funeral at KL ? they were wrapped in Lannister colors and presented to King Robert Baratheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 In the show!, their bodies are at King's Landing. I believe in the books, they must have sent at least Elia's back to the Martells. I think they send. If not ,Oberyn would go to KL , kill everybody who tried to stop him and take body back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 they were wrapped in Lannister colors and presented to King Robert Baratheon. But after that? Do we know something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeethGrinder Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Literally impossible to comprehend her being alive. Why would she do that to Doran and Oberyn? Why would The Mountain declare he killed her? How could they not recognize her? Not a chance. The pot has actually broken with the cracks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 My theory: Jon Arryn went to Dorne and negotiated with Martells. He returned her body to ensure peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Muradin the Small Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 But I wander , where is her body? And bodies of her children? What happend to them? Are they in crypts of Sunspear or had funeral at KL ? IIRC Elia's bones were returned to Dorne with Jon Arryn when he went to negotiate peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julia Martell Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I think they send. If not ,Oberyn would go to KL , kill everybody who tried to stop him and take body back. The author kind of goes out of his way to mention that Jon Arryn made a point of return Prince Lewyn’s bones to Sunspear, but no mention is made of Elia or her kids. I’m guessing she was considered a Targ instead of a Martell, because patriarchy, so they dealt with her remains as such. I think we can trust that Jon Arryn at least saw that it was done decently, whatever his other faults. ETA: “Is it true he tried to raise Dorne for Viserys?” “No one speaks of it, but yes. Ravens flew and riders rode, with what secret messages I never knew. Jon Arryn sailed to Sunspear to return Prince Lewyn’s bones, sat down with Prince Doran, and ended all the talk of war. But Robert never went to Dorne thereafter, and Prince Oberyn seldom left it.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 The author kind of goes out of his way to mention that Jon Arryn made a point of return Prince Lewyn’s bones to Sunspear, but no mention is made of Elia or her kids. I’m guessing she was considered a Targ instead of a Martell, because patriarchy, so they dealt with her remains as such. I think we can trust that Jon Arryn at least saw that it was done decently, whatever his other faults. Robert probably wanted to profanate bodies of all Targs he would find. Good that he had Ned and Jon Arryn near. If not his reign wouldn't last long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 What Rob done to bodies of his enemies: Rhaegar and Aerys.... and what Stannis had done with Rhaella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frances Bean Corbray Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 If we're willing to accept aegon was swapped out... Why not Elia? For starters, it's a lot harder to find a body double for a distinct looking adult -- particularly one from such a scarce ethnic minority as a Dornishwoman in King's Landing -- than it is for a baby, which lets be honest all look kinda the same. There's also not a lot of time to pull this off. Aegon is also a lot more valuable to future movements than his mother (Elia is also in fact arguably more valuable as a martyr; note House Martell is pretty much permanently alienated to the new regime). And you need some reals to lend credence to the fake. I mean, at minimum Jaime is going to recognize the body, and if he sees that's not Elia then one naturally wonders if the kids are fakes too. Now admittedly in this hypothetical situation there's a good chance Tywin gets accused of the switch, of just killing whatever stand ins he can find to make it look like he's made his bones in Robert's new regime, and that might have its own value in breaking the new coalition before it even begins, but Elia (and Rhaenys) need to be real so as to lead people to the conclusion that "Aegon" is real too, and not the product of a switch. Which by the way I, for one, don't accept happened. Aegon VI is a pretender [albeit probably of legit Blackfyre blood, which enables him to bear enough resemblance to look the part]. The only reason Varys has fudge room to claim a switch with Aegon is because Gregor smashed his head in beyond all recognition. Brutal as he also was to Elia (and Lorch was to Rhaenys, lets not forget about that douchelord), they were not mutilated beyond facial recognition. The particulars of Gregor's rage could not be anticipated beforehand by a would be switcher barring two equally implausible scenarios: 1] The Switcher (presumably Varys in this case) has greensight. 2] Ser Gregor is actually part of the conspiracy and ultimately loyal to them more than Tywin. But even if Aegon is legit switched, the real Elia and Rhaenys (to say nothing of the poor stand-in for Aegon) have to be sacrifices for the "greater good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreign675 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 No, elia is alive! Varis swapped her and her children with a whore, Gregor never knew the difference 'cause he is a dog.. and the blood on their faces helped hiding their identity.. Elia will come back! Just like Lianna! and Rhaegar! and Ned Stark! None of them is dead! Not even Tywyin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluetiger Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 No, elia is alive! Varis swapped her and her children with a whore, Gregor never knew the difference 'cause he is a dog.. and the blood on their faces helped hiding their identity.. Elia will come back! Just like Lianna! and Rhaegar! and Ned Stark! None of them is dead! Not even Tywyin!Varis, Lianna and Tywyin may be alive ( whoever they are). But Lyanna and Tywin aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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