Rickon?

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

While Bran's journey doesn't necessarily mean that he'll say in the cave with Bloodraven forever and that this journey is destined for him to be the Stark in Winterfell, that also doesn't necessarily mean the destiny will be completed. Bran might not ever reach the seat of Winterfell again, he might just use his new found powers or whatever to do some good in the realm. Thats when Rickon will most likely come in. I firmly believe Rickon will be THE Stark in Winterfell when this story ends.

The question you have to ask yourself is: Why would Bran stay in the Cave? He doesn't need to be in the Cave to practice magic. When he asks Bloodraven when he will learn to see beyond the trees, he answers "i have not glimpsed" and that it could take years. But for Bran, he slips back into the tree that very night without effort when he's not sitting on the throne. And you only become a physical part of the tree when you are elderly.

To have Bran not reach Winterfell, when there's Gorne's Way, and he's been built up as the Builder's heir, would be waste of his 14 chapters in Winterfell (out of 21 total).

The question was not why the man had to die, but why I must do it.”

He had no answer for that. “King Robert has a headsman,” he said, uncertainly.

"He does," his father admitted. "As did the Targaryen kings before him. Yet our way is the older way. The blood of the First Men still flows in the veins of the Starks, and we hold to the belief that the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.

"One day, Bran, you will be Robb’s bannerman, holding a keep of your own for your brother and your king, and justice will fall to you. When that day comes, you must take no pleasure in the task, but neither must you look away. A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is."

”Most of the morning was given over to talk of grains and greens and salting meat”-Bran, ACOK

”In such cases, her liege lord must find her a suitable match.”-[ser Rodrik, referring to widowed Lady Hornwood]- Bran, ACOK

”… and went from that to speak of how he had strengthened the port’s defenses, detailing the cost of every improvement.” Bran, ACOK.

The maester had taught him all the banners: the mailed fist of the Glovers, silver on scarlet; Lady Mormont’s black bear; the hideous flayed man that went before Roose Bolton of the Dreadfort; a bull moose for the Hornwoods; a battle-axe for the Cerwyns; three sentinel trees for the Tallharts; and the fearsome sigil of House Umber, a roaring giant in shattered chains.

And soon enough he learned the faces too, when the lords and their sons and knights retainer came to Winterfell to feast.

- Bran, AGOT

Bran knew what to say. ‘Thank you for the notion, my lord,’ he blurted out before Ser Rodrik could speak.”-Bran, ACOK

Maester Luwin crouched beside Bran’s seat to whisper counsel in his ear. “You must greet these ones warmly. I had not thought to see them here, but … you know who they are?”

Bran nodded. “Crannogmen. From the Neck.”-Bran, ACOK.

Men crowded shoulder to shoulder on the benches. “Stark!” they called as Bran trotted past, rising to their feet. “Winterfell! Winterfell!”

He was old enough to know that it was not truly him they shouted for—it was the harvest they cheered, it was Robb and his victories, it was his lord father and his grandfather and all the Starks going back eight thousand years. Still, it made him swell with pride. For so long as it took him to ride the length of that hall he forgot that he was broken.

When Bran has been trained been trained to rule Winterfell, and called the "The Stark in Winterfell" why give that immensely symbolic and important role to some who has not even had a POV, let alone references to the Builder and the Fisher King in his story?

“I’m the Prince. I’m the Stark in Winterfell.”

“You are the Stark in Winterfell, and Robb’s heir. You must look princely.” Together they garbed him as befit a lord.

He was the Stark in Winterfell, his father’s son and his brother’s heir, and almost a man grown.

“Your are the Stark in the Winterfell, and Robb’s heir.”

-(Bran, ACOK)

In ASOIAF, "The Stark in Winterfell" acts as a version of the Fisher King, to have a Stark in Winterfell is to have good fortune and for the land to prosper. When the king suffers, the land suffers:

When there was a Stark in Winterfell, a maiden girl could walk the kingsroad in her name-day gown and still go unmolested, and travelers could find fire, bread, and salt at many an inn and holdfast. But the nights are colder now, and doors are closed."-Bran, ASOS.

In fact, GRRM called Bran "a young King Aurthur."

The idea that Bran must stay in the Cave because his arc invokes shamanism ie that Bran is first and foremost a sorcerer. It doesn't. It invokes kingly and lordly imagery, Bran calls himself a lord and heir just as Arya identifies as a wolf. Bran is in fact the true king of ASOIAF, the only king in the narrative that GRRM considers truly legitimate.

[Harry the Hair]

I think most people assume that Bran will have no issue because of his injuries, that's why they name Rickon as the lord of Winterfell. That being said, lord Manderly knows both Rickon and Bran are alive thanks to Wex, and yet he sends Davos to find Rickon even though Bran is the next in line as Lord of Winterfell... could he be trolling Davos since his condition for joining Stannis is the return of his "liege lord" or is he claiming Rickon for his liege lord and if so will that be the case with other houses.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I think most people assume that Bran will have no issue because of his injuries, that's why they name Rickon as the lord of Winterfell. That being said, lord Manderly knows both Rickon and Bran are alive thanks to Wex, and yet he sends Davos to find Rickon even though Bran is the next in line as Lord of Winterfell... could he be trolling Davos since his condition for joining Stannis is the return of his "liege lord" or is he claiming Rickon for his liege lord and if so will that be the case with other houses.

Kings have nieces or nephews as heirs all the time.

Plus, Bran can speak through the ravens, and through the trees (he's communicated across time and space with Jon, Theon and Arya), and the Mountain clans know about him. Remember the Liddle Clansmen (who seems to have been THE Liddle) that they met in ASOS:

"It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell...but there's squids in the Wolfswood and flayed men asking after strangers on the Kingsroad."

It was Ramsay who knows that Bran is alive. The Liddle has just stumbled upon a crippled boy with a pet direwolf, and he's pointed out that the Boltons are looking for someone, all the while referring to The Stark in Winterfell i.e. Bran. He knows exactly who this boy and his companions are.

When Jojen refers to him as "my lord" he doesn't reject the title.

[BalerionTheCat]

First, I don't think GRRM would have created Rickon if he had no purpose. Now it seems "obvious" Rickon will be the next Lord of Winterfell or King of Winter. Because Bran has another, grander but less visible, purpose. And Rickon is described as "fierce". Which seems fitting for leading these hard Northmen.

For why Manderly is not searching for Bran? I don't know. Maybe he knows Bran is beyond the Wall and not accessible. Or like other lords, he doesn't like the idea of a crippled leading the North.

[Harry the Hair]

Kings have nieces or nephews as heirs all the time.

Plus, Bran can speak through the ravens, and through the trees (he's communicated across time and space with Jon, Theon and Arya), and the Mountain clans know about him. Remember the Liddle Clansmen (who seems to have been THE Liddle) that they met in ASOS:

"It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell...but there's squids in the Wolfswood and flayed men asking after strangers on the Kingsroad."

It was Ramsay who knows that Bran is alive. The Liddle has just stumbled upon a crippled boy with a pet direwolf, and he's pointed out that the Boltons are looking for someone, all the while referring to The Stark in Winterfell i.e. Bran. He knows exactly who this boy and his companions are.

When Jojen refers to him as "my lord" he doesn't reject the title.

And yet no one has tried to get Bran back home... Granted they might think that he will return when the time is right but how could they know? So right now Rickon seems to be the safety net here... which leads to the conclusion that he will rule during Bran's absence, however long or short that may be.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

And yet no one has tried to get Bran back home... Granted they might think that he will return when the time is right but how could they know? So right now Rickon seems to be the safety net here... which leads to the conclusion that he will rule during Bran's absence, however long or short that may be.

I'm betting on Gorne's Way, story related to us in the very same book that Bran passes through the Wall, told by Ygritte to Jon:

"Men should not go wandering in this place," Leaf warned them. "The river you hear is swift and black, and flows down and down to a sunless sea. And there are passages that go even deeper, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Even my people have not explored them all, and we have lived here for a thousand thousand of your man-years."

"There are hundreds o’ caves in these hills and down deep they all connect. There’s even a way under your Wall. Gorne’s Way.”

"Gorne," said Jon, "Gorne was King-beyond-the-Wall."

"Aye," said, Ygritte, “Together with his brother Gendel, three thousand years ago. They led o’ host of free folk through the caves…”

"Gendel did not die. He cut his way free, through the crows and led his people back north with the wolves howling at their heels. Only Gendel not know the Caves, as Gorne had, and took a wrong turn….Deeper and deeper he went, and when he tried t’ turn back the ways that seemed familiar ended in stone rather than sky…Gendel’s folk were never seen again."

Rickon of course, could be a rallying point for the Skagosi as they flee toward Winterfell away from the Others, Winterfell of course being built to resist the invasion. Who better to bow to a greenseer king than the primitive First Men?

[Harry the Hair]

I'm betting on Gorne's Way, story related to us in the very same book that Bran passes through the Wall, told by Ygritte to Jon:

"Men should not go wandering in this place," Leaf warned them. "The river you hear is swift and black, and flows down and down to a sunless sea. And there are passages that go even deeper, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Even my people have not explored them all, and we have lived here for a thousand thousand of your man-years."

"There are hundreds o’ caves in these hills and down deep they all connect. There’s even a way under your Wall. Gorne’s Way.”

"Gorne," said Jon, "Gorne was King-beyond-the-Wall."

"Aye," said, Ygritte, “Together with his brother Gendel, three thousand years ago. They led o’ host of free folk through the caves…”

"Gendel did not die. He cut his way free, through the crows and led his people back north with the wolves howling at their heels. Only Gendel not know the Caves, as Gorne had, and took a wrong turn….Deeper and deeper he went, and when he tried t’ turn back the ways that seemed familiar ended in stone rather than sky…Gendel’s folk were never seen again."

I always though that the others will use those tunnels, though it could be that Bran uses them and the Others follow him without his knowledge, that would explain why coldhands helped him.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

First, I don't think GRRM would have created Rickon if he had no purpose. Now it seems "obvious" Rickon will be the next Lord of Winterfell or King of Winter. Because Bran has another, grander but less visible, purpose. And Rickon is described as "fierce". Which seems fitting for leading these hard Northmen.

For why Manderly is not searching for Bran? I don't know. Maybe he knows Bran is beyond the Wall and not accessible. Or like other lords, he doesn't like the idea of a crippled leading the North.

"The black one is full of fear and rage...the grey is strong, stronger than he knows."

The symbols of House Stark of course all marked with the qualities of "dark" and "strong"

"Never fear the darkness, Bran…..The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother’s milk. Darkness will make you strong.”-Bran, ADWD.

The stone is strong. Bran told himself, the roots of the trees go deep, and under the ground the Kings of Winter sit their thrones. So long as those remained, Winterfell remained. It was not dead, just broken. Like me, he thought. I’m not dead either."

The place had grown over the centuries like some monstrous stone tree, Maester Luwin told him once, and its branches were gnarled and thick and twisted, its roots sunk deep into the earth.-Bran, AGOT.

“Their faces were stern and strong, and some of them had done terrible things, but they were Starks every one, and Bran knew all their tales. He had never feared the crypts; they were part of his home and who he was, and he had always known that one day he would lie here too”-Bran ACOK.

Prince of the Wolfswood was “strong and swift and fierce” and now.

The metals of bronze and iron are also prominent in Bran's story, including Bran's oath.

To be the Builder's heir is not to be a savage animal: it is be "strong" and to be rooted to the earth, as Bran's identity is rooted in Winterfell.

[Lord Lyman]

First, I don't think GRRM would have created Rickon if he had no purpose. Now it seems "obvious" Rickon will be the next Lord of Winterfell or King of Winter. Because Bran has another, grander but less visible, purpose. And Rickon is described as "fierce". Which seems fitting for leading these hard Northmen.

For why Manderly is not searching for Bran? I don't know. Maybe he knows Bran is beyond the Wall and not accessible. Or like other lords, he doesn't like the idea of a crippled leading the North.

My guess is that he has no idea where Bran even went. Wex followed Osha and Rickon, who went in a completely different direction. The best he can say is Bran and Co. went into the Wolfswood, from there its anybody's guess. The only people who know for certain that Bran went beyond the wall are Sam and Gilly and so far they haven't told a soul.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I always though that the others will use those tunnels, though it could be that Bran uses them and the Others follow him without his knowledge, that would explain why coldhands helped him.

!!!

I felt suspicious about those caves for the longest time before I learned of the connection. I hypothesis the river underneath may in fact go directly to the bottomless black near the heart tree, or the crypts.

[Harry the Hair]

!!!

I felt suspicious about those caves for the longest time before I learned of the connection. I hypothesis the river underneath may in fact go directly to the bottomless black near the heart tree, or the crypts.

direct access to Winterfell then... scary...

[Monctonvike]

I think his existance is important, although I am not sure he will do much except maybe being the new lord of Winterfell. Then again it is GRRM, the great Skagossi conspiracy might be to wait for people to come looking for him only to eat them

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

direct access to Winterfell then... scary...

Exactly. As fuck.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

something to add from Twoiaf about the caves:

It has long been held that they did this for protection from predators such as direwolves or shadowcats, which their simple stone weapons—and even their vaunted greenseers—were not proof against. But other sources dispute this, stating that their greatest foes were the giants, as hinted at in tales told in the North, and as possibly proved by Maester Kennet in the study of a barrow near the Long Lake—a giant’s burial with obsidian arrowheads found amidst the extant ribs. It brings to mind a transcription of a wildling song in Maester Herryk’s History of the Kings-Beyond-the-Wall, regarding the brothers Gendel and Gorne. They were called upon to mediate a dispute between a clan of children and a family of giants over the possession of a cavern. Gendel and Gorne, it is said, ultimately resolved the matter through trickery, making both sides disavow any desire for the cavern, after the brothers discovered it was a part of a greater chain of caverns that eventually passed beneath the Wall. But considering that the wildlings have no letters, their traditions must be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

i am convinced bran will return to winterfell using those caverns.

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

something to add from Twoiaf about the caves:

It has long been held that they did this for protection from predators such as direwolves or shadowcats, which their simple stone weapons—and even their vaunted greenseers—were not proof against. But other sources dispute this, stating that their greatest foes were the giants, as hinted at in tales told in the North, and as possibly proved by Maester Kennet in the study of a barrow near the Long Lake—a giant’s burial with obsidian arrowheads found amidst the extant ribs. It brings to mind a transcription of a wildling song in Maester Herryk’s History of the Kings-Beyond-the-Wall, regarding the brothers Gendel and Gorne. They were called upon to mediate a dispute between a clan of children and a family of giants over the possession of a cavern. Gendel and Gorne, it is said, ultimately resolved the matter through trickery, making both sides disavow any desire for the cavern, after the brothers discovered it was a part of a greater chain of caverns that eventually passed beneath the Wall. But considering that the wildlings have no letters, their traditions must be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

i am convinced bran will return to winterfell using those caverns.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[King17]

I do think bran will be lord of winterfell rickon is created to rule after him since bran can't have kids

[SacredOrderOfGreenMen]

I do think bran will be lord of winterfell rickon is created to rule after him since bran can't have kids

That's a really strong possibility.

GRRM hasn't set it in stone one way or the other (he is a gardener after all, so he left his options open), but scientifically, most of the time, in Bran's situation that means no kids.

It also makes sense because Bran strong resembles what is known in literature as a "grafted creatures":

“And the heart tree - as a manifestation of that partnership - is a grafted creature. It is both natural and unnatural - the result of a marriage, or perhaps a forced union,of unlike things: humans (or COTF) and an old power of the earth. Bran, as we know, is to be “wedded” to the trees… and this analogy of a marriage between human and tree may very well prove one embodiment of the Pact sealed by the Singers and the First Men on the Isle of Faces.”

And by the definition of being unnatural fusions of two different creatures, they're infertile and can't reproduce. Think of a chimera.

It is interesting though that one of Cregan Starks kids, whose generation is otherwise similar to this one, had one child named Brandon who was lord of Winterfell when it all shaked out, and had a bastard son by a crannogwoman named Wylla Fenn.

But I would still place my money on the line continuing through one of the other Stark kids.

[King17]

That's a really strong possibility.

GRRM hasn't set it in stone one way or the other (he is a gardener after all, so he left his options open), but scientifically, most of the time, in Bran's situation that means no kids.

It also makes sense because Bran strong resembles what is known in literature as a "grafted creatures":

And the heart tree - as a manifestation of that partnership - is a grafted creature. It is both natural and unnatural - the result of a marriage, or perhaps a forced union,of unlike things: humans (or COTF) and an old power of the earth. Bran, as we know, is to be wedded to the trees and this analogy of a marriage between human and tree may very well prove one embodiment of the Pact sealed by the Singers and the First Men on the Isle of Faces.

And by the definition of being unnatural fusions of two different creatures, they're infertile and can't reproduce. Think of a chimera.

It is interesting though that one of Cregan Starks kids, whose generation is otherwise similar to this one, had one child named Brandon who was lord of Winterfell when it all shaked out, and had a bastard son by a crannogwoman named Wylla Fenn.

But I would still place my money on the line continuing through one of the other Stark kids.

Glad to see somebody thinks what I think is possible nice reasoning with your chimera explanation

[BalerionTheCat]

I would find strange and "forced" if Bran was lord of WF for some time, while Rickon could do as much. Knowing Bran could not stay in WF for long anyway. And he is certainly much more useful and powerful when he is linked to his weirwood. I think Bran has to stay in the cavern with the CotF, at least until then end of the Long Night. Maybe he could leave, but it is his "command post". And after the LN, I think he will be as much linked to the tree as BR is now.

And I don't think we need a lord of WF now, but a King of Winter. Probably meaning battles. Rickon is still very young, but I expect he will mature fast in these difficult conditions. Manderly and other, like Jon, should help him in the beginning.

[The Creeping Knight]

That also raises a good point. If a Stark sits in Winterfell again (most likely Bran or Rickon as debated) are they just going to be Lord Stark or are they going to follow Robb as King In The North? Now Bran is still young, but will no doubtebly be much wiser after his stay with Bloodraven (I would assume wise beyond his years) therefor he might be able to make a clear headed decision on whether or not Winterfell will stay in open revolt or just say "I'm sick of fighting so we'll remain Lords." (Which I doubt, but you never know.) However, Rickon will still bet much be a small child and will certainly have to have advisors such as the Umbers who will advise Rickon to embrace the idea of being the King of Winter.

So what do we think, when/if a Stark finally gets back to Winterfell do they continue on as Kings or Lords Paramount?