BalerionTheCat

Lannisters, Boltons, Freys, Targaryens, slavers ... all are humans. And GRRM spent pages and pages to document and expose their crimes, with excuses or not. But what do we have for the Others? We know nothing of their motives. Apparent systematic assaults against the Night Watch. I guess the Night Watch failed some oath or mission... I doubt it was serving King Joffrey. In comparison, the Free Folk are apparently mostly unharmed. Even if they fear the Others. But none of the big clans, even the worst ones like the Weeper, are seriously threatened... apparently. I would guess killing Night Watch men is not a crime but a worthy deed. I guess the Others have an agenda. Which may be killing all those who failed something forgotten.. so far. I believe GRRM monsters are the humans more than the Others!

I don't ask myself the question whether I would prefer GRRM ending. And not liking it. Or not knowing. And keeping with my own speculations while more or less everyone else is progressively brainwashed in accepting D&D ending. Like king Bran of the Andals. I'm living with the hypothesis I would like GRRM ending. I liked everything he wrote so far for ASoIaF. So I don't see why it would change. I believe Bran will be a greenseer for the Old Gods. With god like powers enough to tip the balance of forces to something of a better world. Not just for Westeros. Not a king unable to control even his own shit. If I'm wrong, I'm still assuming I'll like GRRM way of ending the story.

Agreed! Maybe honor is only for men like them, not for bastards and savages? Didn't say he was smart and enlightened. Agreed! Agreed! A kind of Victarion? I believe Victarion really enjoy it. While I think he believes he is training them for Winter. Worst case scenario: better dying now than later and endangering the Wall. But between Barrisant who flipped side when convenient and him staying to his words... Well maybe it was stupidity as much as honor.

Aliser is painted as an unpleasant man, a prick. Like Jaime or Theon at the start. He had a bitter life. But remained a man of honor. I don't think he would have been in this cabal to assassinate his Lord Commander. Even if he hates him. But luckily (or unfortunately for Jon), he was not there. I say I like him. I hope he is not dead. I hope Coldhand had some spare time in his schedule to rescue and guide him to Bloodraven. One of his Targaryen masters. I wonder what he will do if he learns Jon is Rhaegar's son?

You said it. There would be no justice from men. So either it comes from elsewhere. Or it's the strongest, smartest, wickedest who win. Don't fancy me with Frodo wining against Sauron.

These 2 Davos chapters are my favorites. I love Manderly and Wylla. But they are wrong. Vengeance is wrong. But who did that to the Starks are wrong also. What is needed is justice, not vengeance. But no one with an interest in the conflict can do impartial justice. IMHO, why the Old Gods and the Others come into play. I never said the justice would be lenient. But the Starks misery is just an example of the bigger problem of channeling wars and men's ambitions.

I don't think. He often said he doesn't listen to fan reactions. He made us love characters who do awful things, hate characters who do the right things. I think he expects surprise, shock, anger from us. I think the fan reaction to the show ending is more or less his plan for the books. What the show was lacking however was the elements to think about it. To do the analysis of what went wrong and what must not be repeated. When I see Bran's kingdom, the only question I have is: How long before the next war? What despair me is: they learned nothing!

I don't think the TV show ending is what GRRM planned for the books. If I was, I would not be here. I would be busy forgetting I ever read these books. And I would not care whether George finishes or not. For me the show was not very different from what I expected. But it was also fundamentally wrong, twisted and meaningless. Yes, Dany would go amok. But in a way we would be sad for her. Because she had no escape route from bloodshed. I don't think the fan reaction to Season 8 is what is blocking him.

After the awful show ending, and the "my books are different". I thought George would have worked on showing us how different they are. Come on George, show us! Because so far, the show is all we have and all WILL remain of ASoIaF: Bran king of the Andals, Arya sailing West, Dany "kill them all", Jon exiled, Bronn Master of Coins, and so on. Instead, he is just doing the same error; again and again. Sometimes again with unfinished stories

No. It's worse. With LOTR, at this point, you have no doubt where the books will end. With king Aragorn for example. You just don't know exactly how. And who will be alive. But with ASoIaF... OK I have my ending. But it's just in my head. And each of us have one also. All different.

I still have a glimmer of hope for ASoIaF. Whatever the form, full books, faithful adaptation, or just synopsis. Faith more than logic and rationality I must confess. But even he can't convey how much I don’t care about anything but WINDS OF WINTER. Everything, even D&E and F&B if they are not glimpses on ASoIaF ending. If I don't have the conclusion of ASoIaF in any form, I don't think I will ever reread the 1st 5 books (I read them 3 to 5 times before ~2016), or anything else from GRRM. Yet, I still blame him for making by comparison anything else I read, maybe somewhat entertaining, but of little to no interest, and full of flaws in their telling.

I'm fine with speculation so long as it doesn't contradict facts. No one linking Hardhome destruction with Valyria seems hard fact enough for me. I don't think something so big could have been missed. That is my stand. I agree GRRM is hiding something about the timing of events. And it's likely important. But it led me another way. I know. I'm sorry for derailing that. You are right. I imagine you are that after what you lived in Valyria mines. It must be that killing Valyria ASAP was not the right move. Before your OP, I knew Braavos having a hand in Valyria destruction was a theory. But I didn't have an idea how. The timeline and Hardhome event led me to that. I'm leaving that now.

I feel I'm repeating: a) There is zero evidence Valyria destroyed Hardhome. Maybe it did, but we have nothing to argue for it. And it would be an incredibly withholding of information by GRRM. Because it is very unlikely it got unnoticed. b) Concerning Braavos: Possibly. That could be for safety. But it's not necessarily the case. Hardhome was close to Braavos and had similar volcanic activity that Valyria. Or so it seems. Maybe Braavos decided to investigate there some ideas they had for destroying Valyria. Or at least to have a weapon against them in case of need. But there was an accident, a catastrophe. Or maybe not, Maybe it was intentional. I won't argue one or the other. Maybe because Braavos was not that cold bastard. You don't seem to understand having the atomic bomb and not using it. They didn't use it right away. Why? I don't know. Maybe it needed years of preparation to infiltrate Valyria. Maybe there were risks Valyria survive and retaliate. Anyway, Braavos waited until no other choice was possible. Until one risk overweight the others. More likely until Braavos was finally discovered.

And I am an engineer. Don't tell me of ignoring logic and the facts before me. Not lottery. But you may win in other games ... with time. If you play the numbers no one else uses. Safety engineers rely a lot on statistics and probabilities. But you need to know the physic of things, to determine which mathematical tools you can use.

In no way it hints Braavos was once thought destroyed. AFAIK, no maester ever suggested and provided evidence that Hardhome destruction was the work of Valyria in its attempt of catching Braavos. In fact, I was initially rather neutral to the idea of Valyria confusing Hardome with Braavos. But you just thoroughly convinced me this is impossible and there is absolutely nothing suggesting it. How Valyria destroying Hardome would help the FM destroying the 14? The FM got their knowledge by being slaves in Valyria mines. There are plenty of possibilities why someone possessing the atomic bomb is not using it right away. I would say Braavos didn't want to use it, otherwise than in a last recourse. It would be interesting to know how Braavos location became known. So long as it was a mystery, Braavos was safe. If the finding was accidental, and not the will of Braavos, then Braavos was in absolute danger, and Valyria empire's destruction imperative. Thus the second timing correspondence. I'm not trying to orient my speculations according to personal feelings. Only according to what is logic and without relying on second or n-th meaning of sentences taken out of context. If something is logic but not in line with my understanding of the story, then I have to revise something. Here, you helped me think of things I didn't care or noticed. I disagree 100% with you. But a few things are now quite solid for me here... Missing an argument is not neutral. If often convince of the opposite.