The Astronomy Behind the Legends of Planetos

[barristan-b]

This theory is a fantastic analysis of the AA story. Seriously, you caught many interesting things that really make me think GRRM is playing off how in reality, we have tons of myths and such that are rooted in ancient happenings of astronomical proportions and they place people and creatures in place of planets, moons, and stars. Myths describing a lost history and science through fable.

I've had this suspicion that his placing of prophecy and myths in the universe was for a different purpose than simply being fulfilled through the characters and it's made sense to me there was a meteor shower of epic proportions way back in the day.

Dragons falling - meteor shower/falling moon fragments

Nissa Nissa - Moon Moon

It also makes me think if there was in fact two moons, the day-night and seasonal cycle prior was much different and probably gave way to certain conditions on the planet. After the shower, I wonder if it allowed the planet to become warmer and made Westeros more fit for man to check out. The race was subjected to the far east and southern Essos (Great Empire of the Dawn). When this event happened, it was a Tower of Babel situation where the population of man all scattered.

[Mother of Dragons]

The plug worked. I'll read about the elf first, I'm sick of AA, but I like comet discussions.

[LmL]

The plug worked. I'll read about the elf first, I'm sick of AA, but I like comet discussions.

Haha thanks much and let me know what you think. I'm not so much talking about Azor Ahai at first as I am the associated symbolism linking dragons, comets, and flaming swords. :) but yeah the Nissa Nissa Stuff was really awesome, and I plan to build on that further.

[LmL]

This theory is a fantastic analysis of the AA story. Seriously, you caught many interesting things that really make me think GRRM is playing off how in reality, we have tons of myths and such that are rooted in ancient happenings of astronomical proportions and they place people and creatures in place of planets, moons, and stars. Myths describing a lost history and science through fable.

I've had this suspicion that his placing of prophecy and myths in the universe was for a different purpose than simply being fulfilled through the characters and it's made sense to me there was a meteor shower of epic proportions way back in the day.

Dragons falling - meteor shower/falling moon fragments

Nissa Nissa - Moon Moon

It also makes me think if there was in fact two moons, the day-night and seasonal cycle prior was much different and probably gave way to certain conditions on the planet. After the shower, I wonder if it allowed the planet to become warmer and made Westeros more fit for man to check out. The race was subjected to the far east and southern Essos (Great Empire of the Dawn). When this event happened, it was a Tower of Babel situation where the population of man all scattered.

Thanks for reading and glad you enjoyed it Barristan B! Yes, the Tower of Babel analogy is apt. It was a cultural dispersion event - the Worldbook confirms this when it tells us that the Great Empire of the Dawn did not reform, and the tribes of men were suspicious of each other an scattered. This is also a clue that the current golden empire of Yi Ti is not a direct descendent of the Great Empire of the Dawn, but only a later-arriving people who have taken on some of the trappings of their empire.

There's several signs of cultural dispersion from the Far East to the west, with the Dothraki, the Andals and First Men, the massive amounts of bones left behind in the bone mountains... And more, but that's going to be its own essay - the GEotD and the resulting dispersal patterns. Looking forward to that one - less magic and mythology and more historical detective work. I enjoy both but am looking forward to tracing the dispersion post-LN.

Your idea that the environmental conditions changed post LN to favor human expansions seems corroborated by the disappearance of the older races as man has ascended. It seems like around this time, some of the older races began interbreeding with mankind, perhaps as a survival mechanism.

[Mother of Dragons]

Haha thanks much and let me know what you think. I'm not so much talking about Azor Ahai at first as I am the associated symbolism linking dragons, comets, and flaming swords. :) but yeah the Nissa Nissa Stuff was really awesome, and I plan to build on that further.

You're welcome, but maybe you can still make a wiki page to accompany it! Just kidding... :)

[Mother of Dragons]

I ended up reading the part before the elf and haven't gotten through your replies yet. Has anyone posited that the Doom may have been a falling moon or comet? I'm sure it's not an original idea, but was one of the first things that came to mind.

[LmL]

I mean the idea is out there, but I didn't get into it because I was only dealing with the LN / Dawn Age stuff. But I've read basically every theory I've come across about the doom. Comet / meteor impacts can set off volcanoes. There's also a bit about the red priests claiming to have "called down the fire of their gods," which could allude to a comet impact.

[LmL]

You're welcome, but maybe you can still make a wiki page to accompany it! Just kidding... :)

Eventually I hope to re-release them after everyone's helped improve them, hopefully with a good organization system. So it's not actually a joke at all. :)

[Mother of Dragons]

I mean the idea is out there, but I didn't get into it because I was only dealing with the LN / Dawn Age stuff. But I've read basically every theory I've come across about the doom. Comet / meteor impacts can set off volcanoes. There's also a bit about the red priests claiming to have "called down the fire of their gods," which could allude to a comet impact.

LMAO @ reading every theory about the Doom. If you are ever in DC maybe you can tell me like an audio tape. All joking aside, I do read a lot, just haven't been in the mood lately to undertake any big projects. Sticking to 300 page or so thrillers that keep me up at night. Happy Belated bday, we're a few months apart in age.

[Mother of Dragons]

Eventually I hope to re-release them after everyone's helped improve them, hopefully with a good organization system. So it's not actually a joke at all. :)

:rofl: I love this forum! Like the guy who has a blog composed about how AGOT will end like WoT? I looked at it, and I was wondering how many man hours were involved. I admire people who can do that, I just have no patience.

[Voice]

:rofl: I love this forum! Like the guy who has a blog composed about how AGOT will end like WoT? I looked at it, and I was wondering how many man hours were involved. I admire people who can do that, I just have no patience.

Ever read the corn code? Lol

[LmL]

No but I'd like to see the Patchface code

[Voice]

No but I'd like to see the Patchface code

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/96129-corn-code-revision-8-the-game-of-thrones-exposed/

It gained much momentum, and hundreds of man hours of development and analysis, before GRRM squashed it.

[MooseHB]

The number three is all over Dany's arc and has been from the beginning. That's got to be important.

It is:

I really tried hard to find the pattern of the comet's recurrence... Not seeing anything regular happening every 16 or 17 years (the time since Aegon's birth and the last comet sighting), I tried combinations of numbers to add to 17, like 17 and 25, in case it was an irregular comet. I tried to see if anything lined up with Summerhall, the birth of "dragon" Targs, or other similar big events. I was not able to find a pattern. If the comet does trigger something each time it passes - most likely war, or something magical - then there should be a pattern. I just couldn't find it.

I think the important thing to understand is that the comet we see now is the other half of the one which destroyed the elf moon 10,000 years ago.

Anyone like my explanation for the irregular seasons? That's a pretty big mystery, and I think this celestial scenario explains it nicely.

The comet of 299 AC is not half of the original.

It is one third.

One minor tweak to the theory; the comet split into three pieces. Two remain. As they were thrown into slightly different orbit than the moonkiller, one takes a little longer than the other to complete one orbit. Over 10,000 years (maybe 300 to 1200 orbits), that has translated into a difference of sixteen to eighteen years. Since the time between the two has such a small increase each time they come back, most people don't notice, or put it together that they were once in the sky together (but the Citadel might be aware of this). It could also be that the two remaining chunks now orbit each other, while they orbit the sun, and are drifting further apart, which is causing the reappearances to seem irregular.

Remember, The Dragon Has Three Heads.

[LmL]

BOOM. Part three is out, and it’s positively GeoDawnian.

------======o))) FINGERPRINTS OF THE DAWN (((o======------

[Voice]

You lie. There is no part 3. Lol

[LmL]

You lie. There is no part 3. Lol

Haha sharp eye there, you're right I didn't actually name it part 3, because this GEotD one was originally going to be part five and it got moved up. Parts 3 & 4 are intended to cover the two moons, the magic swords, no the three surface impacts of moon rock.

[thewalliswheretheheartis]

Three Attempts to Forge Lightbringer

Although we have been focusing on the successful forging of Lightbringer, the legend of Azor Ahai actually has a bit more to it, of course. Azor Ahai fails twice before achieving success, as a grape-chewing Saladhor Saan tells Davos in ACOK:

This is followed by Nissa Nissa's sacrifice and the forging of Lightbringer. To fit the Azor Ahai myth fully, our celestial scenario should account for these three attempts to forge Lightbringer, and I believe it does. The last one is easy - the successful tempering of Lightbringer the sword in Nissa Nissa's heart is the comet half which struck the heart of the moon and created the fiery explosion. What about the other two, the water and the lion's heart? Well, first we're going to need a bit of information about the nature of meteor showers, which I have paraphrased and condensed from a couple different Wikipedia

Saladhor Saan tells Davo that a darkness covered the world before the forging. I thought the theory was that the forging caused the long night? Idk, very interesting theory regardless. I'm headed to part two now. Thanks LmL!

[grufolo]

LIL and Dx2, very nicely done here. Very impressive work, clearly a lot of thought went into it.

I've just skimmed it, will need a few more reads to fully get it all. But my initial thought it you've touched upon a significant number of major themes.

The best part of the comparison of the AA legend and the Qartheen Dragon Legend is that the symbolism works on multiple levels. The moon being a classically feminine icon. NN breaks the moon with her ecstasy. And when the moon breaks from getting too close to the sun, dragons hatch.

For this reason one way I like to view the NN/AA tale is not of the making of a sword, but a person. The cries of anguish and ecstasy would refer to the creating of life and the pain of delivery. If the tale is taken literally enough, NN died giving birth to light bringer.

If we transpose that on the Qarth myth, do we get Light bringer = dragon?

And of course, does dragon mean the beast... or a Targaryen.

Note Dany is a Targ, whose mother died birthing her.

If R+L=J, then he too is the child of a mother who died birthing him.

So the implications on the story for light bringer as a person really opens us to some fun options.

Now, interestingly, Dany is called "moon of my life" by Drogo. Val also has a very strong association with moons as well. Pure crackpot... could Jon end up with two wives, like a sun w/ 2 moons?

Although i don't like this theory that Tyrion is the third head of the dragon I can't stop thinking that another notable character's mother died giving borth to him... interestingly that's a Lion!

One of them was linked to ice (the northern Lyanna), one to a Lion's heart (Tywin's heart shattered at the death of Joanna), the third the very wife of AA .

[Young Ls]

This is a really interesting theory! Are you on tumblr? On twitter? Consider me a fan.