TheMaester Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Me six! I don't even dislike Stannis I just don't get why those who love him LOVE him. " Because while others want the throne for power, he just wants it because it is his, and his duty to do so. "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you believe Stannis doesn't truly want the throne I have a bridge to sell you. :PHe could have let it pass to his younger brother like Maester Aemon did. Instead he was willing to kill his brother over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snows Queen Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 And what would those plot gifts be? The eggs? Illyrio is filthy rich and needed Dany, Drogo, and Viserys's loyalties, he could spare the eggs. The dragons waking up? No difference with the direwolves, except that Dany had to experience serious loss to get them. Gifts at Qarth? She's an exotic ruler in exile, a curiosity, with literal legends as pets, receiving gifts from wealthy merchants isn't too out of the ordinary, just look at Jalabhar Xho. The Unsullied? She slaughters the good part of a city to get them, and does so in an extremely underhanded manner. Nothing near approaching the Old Bear giving away a priceless family heirloom (which could have easily been sold to help improve the Watch's pityful condition) to Jon just because he did his job, or Mance, a normally really astute man, falling into Jon's whole "I'm a bastard, poor me" act and letting him roam around, setting himself up to be betrayed... or the Watch electing a green boy commander, Sam shenanigans or not. The only thing Ilyyrio needed from Dany and Viserys was to die with Drogon. I do not think he wanted to help them. I think he changed his plans when the eggs hatched and Dany started conquering and he could pair her up with his original plan. They were in his way before that point. (Viserys would not have handed her over to her nephew so THEY could sit the IT) As someone else pointed out she said 1 word and got Astapor burned, not hard. In YUnkai she sent in a couple guys and they got the slaves to fight for their freedom. Similar tale in Meereen. She is handed quite a bit. I could go on... Barristan the Bold and the dragons are 2 examples of gifts she is handed and doesn't use wisely. Yes, Jon is handed quite a bit, but so is Dany. I don't dislike them for it. Everyone is handed some things and should be judged by how the choose to use (or not use) said gifts. There are things I think each of them should have done differently but then again, it is possible (or even likely) that worse would have happened to them if they had. Maybe they made the right decision and I just have not seen why yet or maybe it was the wrong choice and they will, hopefully, learn and/or grow for it or maybe they will lose their head. All of that being said, I agree with what another post said aboy Martin using John in the way of showing the little tasks that you have as a leader. Dany does not do as well in that area as John has, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaester Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you believe Stannis doesn't truly want the throne I have a bridge to sell you. :PHe could have let it pass to his younger brother like Maester Aemon did. Instead he was willing to kill his brother over it.Only because it would be the second time his younger brother undermined law and stole what was rightfully his. He finds it his duty to save the realm, and obviously thought Renly Incapable. If Renly cannot obey the law then surely he could not uphold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Only because it would be the second time his younger brother undermined law and stole what was rightfully his. He finds it his duty to save the realm, and obviously thought Renly Incapable. If Renly cannot obey the law then surely he could not uphold it. Not sure how it was Renly's fault Robert gave him SE. There's no law saying a castle has to go to anyone. Tywin was planning keeping CR from Tyrion. Lords/kings can do what they like with their property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaester Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Not sure how it was Renly's fault Robert gave him SE. There's no law saying a castle has to go to anyone. Tywin was planning keeping CR from Tyrion. Lords/kings can do what they like with their property. Renly could of said no. Either way Renly had no claim to the throne so he was an enemy to the king, a usurper, and death was his sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Renly could of said no. Either way Renly had no claim to the throne so he was an enemy to the king, a usurper, and death was his sentence. Robert was a usurper too. It didn't stop him from taking the throne. Renly's claim was actually probably less dodgy. Brother of a king as opposed to grandson of a kings daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousigilisthehousecat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Awesome post. Thank you. I needed to get that off my chest :tantrum: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaester Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Robert was a usurper too. It didn't stop him from taking the throne. Renly's claim was actually probably less dodgy. Brother of a king as opposed to grandson of a kings daughter. So we're the Targaryens, so where do we draw the line? Does no one have a claim? Of course Robert had little claim but after the bloody Rebellion he was almost unanimously chosen. I would think that most in westeros still believe a Baratheon should be king. Regardless, how can we compare Robert Usurping a mad man to blood usurping blood for no other reason than wanting it for himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhousigilisthehousecat Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Welcome to Jon Haters Anonymous! :) Even when his neck is (literally) on the line, he just mopes and refuses to even vote in the election. Jon doesn't deserve Sam. Glad I'm not alone ^_^ I don't think it's an accident that Sam's name is the same as LotR Sam, who ended up being the real MVP of the story even though he was only cast as the fat sidekick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Rod Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Me six! I don't even dislike Stannis I just don't get why those who love him LOVE him. Count me in as seven. Or eight, or nine, whatever. Like Jon, like Dany, though neither are my favorites. I'm ambivalent about Stannis, there's lots to both like and dislike about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pod The Rod Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Because while others want the throne for power, he just wants it because it is his, and his duty to do so. "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother" bahahahahahahhahah You actually believe that crap? Son, what that line is is a lie Stannis is telling to himself. He wants to believe it, because it fits with how he wants to see himself- as the great bringer of justice and law- but there is about as much truth in that as there is in the wind coming out of my arse after a visit to Taco Bell. One does not challenge Renly if one does not truly want the throne. One does not sail into the teeth of wildfire on the Blackwater if one does not want the throne. One does not sail north to the Wall, prolonging a vicious war instead of surrendering, if one does not want the throne. One does not do all the things Stannis has done if one does not truly, deeply, WANT the throne. It is as simple as that, and it's not a bad thing in and of itself. I don't know why Stanstans refuse to admit this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thelittledragonthatcould Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 So we're the Targaryens, so where do we draw the line? Does no one have a claim? Of course Robert had little claim but after the bloody Rebellion he was almost unanimously chosen. I would think that most in westeros still believe a Baratheon should be king. Regardless, how can we compare Robert Usurping a mad man to blood usurping blood for no other reason than wanting it for himself. Are you talking about Stannis or Renly? The people of Westeros would see them both being guilty of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaester Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Are you talking about Stannis or Renly? The people of Westeros would see them both being guilty of that. Stannis is the rightful heir, so I was talking about renly. bahahahahahahhahah You actually believe that crap? Son, what that line is is a lie Stannis is telling to himself. He wants to believe it, because it fits with how he wants to see himself- as the great bringer of justice and law- but there is about as much truth in that as there is in the wind coming out of my arse after a visit to Taco Bell. One does not challenge Renly if one does not truly want the throne. One does not sail into the teeth of wildfire on the Blackwater if one does not want the throne. One does not sail north to the Wall, prolonging a vicious war instead of surrendering, if one does not want the throne. One does not do all the things Stannis has done if one does not truly, deeply, WANT the throne. It is as simple as that, and it's not a bad thing in and of itself. I don't know why Stanstans refuse to admit this. I see no reason he would lie, he was speaking in private. Maybe you could say he is lying to himself, but I doubt that. I feel he honestly believes that he is the rightful Heir and the only king capable of protecting the realm. So he pursues the throne to a fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolves Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Beats me. Another question would be, what type of person would hate the one dude in the story who's trying to do something good for the realm rather than himself? And this is why Jon is just so awesome is because he's not in it for himself he's doing it for the people. I don't think Jon is a hero or anybody because I don't think GRRM's story has any heroes but I think he's just a person whoes trying to save thousands of innocent people. I don't need Jon to be a morally corrupt person that's all these books are filled with morally corrupt people who have done nothing but bring death and destruction to others, I like Jon just how he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Snowball Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Glad I'm not alone ^_^ I don't think it's an accident that Sam's name is the same as LotR Sam, who ended up being the real MVP of the story even though he was only cast as the fat sidekick.I'm just kinda looking at it and Jon and Sam are the Frodo/Samwise of this book who are more or less trying to end the magical evil long term threat.Where as Danny and Tyrion are kinda like Aragorn and the Boyz trying to fix the short term real world problem like uniting the kingdoms and whatnot.I'm not at all saying they are the same so don't jump on my back people all I'm saying is that they do have some similarities.And as to the OP the answer is simple, They hate him because they ain't him. They are peanut better and jealous. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites
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