Why do so many people hate Jon Snow?

[TheMaester]

Me six!

I don't even dislike Stannis I just don't get why those who love him LOVE him. "

Because while others want the throne for power, he just wants it because it is his, and his duty to do so. "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother"

[Nictarion]

If you believe Stannis doesn't truly want the throne I have a bridge to sell you. :P

He could have let it pass to his younger brother like Maester Aemon did. Instead he was willing to kill his brother over it.

[Snows Queen]

And what would those plot gifts be?

The eggs? Illyrio is filthy rich and needed Dany, Drogo, and Viserys's loyalties, he could spare the eggs.

The dragons waking up? No difference with the direwolves, except that Dany had to experience serious loss to get them.

Gifts at Qarth? She's an exotic ruler in exile, a curiosity, with literal legends as pets, receiving gifts from wealthy merchants isn't too out of the ordinary, just look at Jalabhar Xho.

The Unsullied? She slaughters the good part of a city to get them, and does so in an extremely underhanded manner.

Nothing near approaching the Old Bear giving away a priceless family heirloom (which could have easily been sold to help improve the Watch's pityful condition) to Jon just because he did his job, or Mance, a normally really astute man, falling into Jon's whole "I'm a bastard, poor me" act and letting him roam around, setting himself up to be betrayed... or the Watch electing a green boy commander, Sam shenanigans or not.

The only thing Ilyyrio needed from Dany and Viserys was to die with Drogon. I do not think he wanted to help them. I think he changed his plans when the eggs hatched and Dany started conquering and he could pair her up with his original plan. They were in his way before that point. (Viserys would not have handed her over to her nephew so THEY could sit the IT) As someone else pointed out she said 1 word and got Astapor burned, not hard. In YUnkai she sent in a couple guys and they got the slaves to fight for their freedom. Similar tale in Meereen. She is handed quite a bit. I could go on... Barristan the Bold and the dragons are 2 examples of gifts she is handed and doesn't use wisely.

Yes, Jon is handed quite a bit, but so is Dany. I don't dislike them for it. Everyone is handed some things and should be judged by how the choose to use (or not use) said gifts. There are things I think each of them should have done differently but then again, it is possible (or even likely) that worse would have happened to them if they had. Maybe they made the right decision and I just have not seen why yet or maybe it was the wrong choice and they will, hopefully, learn and/or grow for it or maybe they will lose their head.

All of that being said, I agree with what another post said aboy Martin using John in the way of showing the little tasks that you have as a leader. Dany does not do as well in that area as John has, imo.

[TheMaester]

If you believe Stannis doesn't truly want the throne I have a bridge to sell you. :P

He could have let it pass to his younger brother like Maester Aemon did. Instead he was willing to kill his brother over it.

Only because it would be the second time his younger brother undermined law and stole what was rightfully his. He finds it his duty to save the realm, and obviously thought Renly Incapable.

If Renly cannot obey the law then surely he could not uphold it.

[Nictarion]

Only because it would be the second time his younger brother undermined law and stole what was rightfully his. He finds it his duty to save the realm, and obviously thought Renly Incapable.

If Renly cannot obey the law then surely he could not uphold it.

Not sure how it was Renly's fault Robert gave him SE. There's no law saying a castle has to go to anyone. Tywin was planning keeping CR from Tyrion. Lords/kings can do what they like with their property.

[TheMaester]

Not sure how it was Renly's fault Robert gave him SE. There's no law saying a castle has to go to anyone. Tywin was planning keeping CR from Tyrion. Lords/kings can do what they like with their property.

Renly could of said no. Either way Renly had no claim to the throne so he was an enemy to the king, a usurper, and death was his sentence.

[Nictarion]

Renly could of said no. Either way Renly had no claim to the throne so he was an enemy to the king, a usurper, and death was his sentence.

Robert was a usurper too. It didn't stop him from taking the throne. Renly's claim was actually probably less dodgy. Brother of a king as opposed to grandson of a kings daughter.

[myhousigilisthehousecat]

Awesome post.

Thank you. I needed to get that off my chest :tantrum:

[TheMaester]

Robert was a usurper too. It didn't stop him from taking the throne. Renly's claim was actually probably less dodgy. Brother of a king as opposed to grandson of a kings daughter.

So we're the Targaryens, so where do we draw the line? Does no one have a claim? Of course Robert had little claim but after the bloody Rebellion he was almost unanimously chosen. I would think that most in westeros still believe a Baratheon should be king. Regardless, how can we compare Robert Usurping a mad man to blood usurping blood for no other reason than wanting it for himself.

[myhousigilisthehousecat]

Welcome to Jon Haters Anonymous! :)

Even when his neck is (literally) on the line, he just mopes and refuses to even vote in the election. Jon doesn't deserve Sam.

Glad I'm not alone ^_^ I don't think it's an accident that Sam's name is the same as LotR Sam, who ended up being the real MVP of the story even though he was only cast as the fat sidekick.

[Pod The Rod]

Me six!

I don't even dislike Stannis I just don't get why those who love him LOVE him.

Count me in as seven. Or eight, or nine, whatever.

Like Jon, like Dany, though neither are my favorites.

I'm ambivalent about Stannis, there's lots to both like and dislike about him.

[Pod The Rod]

Because while others want the throne for power, he just wants it because it is his, and his duty to do so. "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother"

bahahahahahahhahah

You actually believe that crap? Son, what that line is is a lie Stannis is telling to himself. He wants to believe it, because it fits with how he wants to see himself- as the great bringer of justice and law- but there is about as much truth in that as there is in the wind coming out of my arse after a visit to Taco Bell.

One does not challenge Renly if one does not truly want the throne.

One does not sail into the teeth of wildfire on the Blackwater if one does not want the throne.

One does not sail north to the Wall, prolonging a vicious war instead of surrendering, if one does not want the throne.

One does not do all the things Stannis has done if one does not truly, deeply, WANT the throne. It is as simple as that, and it's not a bad thing in and of itself. I don't know why Stanstans refuse to admit this.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

So we're the Targaryens, so where do we draw the line? Does no one have a claim? Of course Robert had little claim but after the bloody Rebellion he was almost unanimously chosen. I would think that most in westeros still believe a Baratheon should be king. Regardless, how can we compare Robert Usurping a mad man to blood usurping blood for no other reason than wanting it for himself.

Are you talking about Stannis or Renly?

The people of Westeros would see them both being guilty of that.

[TheMaester]

Are you talking about Stannis or Renly?

The people of Westeros would see them both being guilty of that.

Stannis is the rightful heir, so I was talking about renly.

bahahahahahahhahah

You actually believe that crap? Son, what that line is is a lie Stannis is telling to himself. He wants to believe it, because it fits with how he wants to see himself- as the great bringer of justice and law- but there is about as much truth in that as there is in the wind coming out of my arse after a visit to Taco Bell.

One does not challenge Renly if one does not truly want the throne.

One does not sail into the teeth of wildfire on the Blackwater if one does not want the throne.

One does not sail north to the Wall, prolonging a vicious war instead of surrendering, if one does not want the throne.

One does not do all the things Stannis has done if one does not truly, deeply, WANT the throne. It is as simple as that, and it's not a bad thing in and of itself. I don't know why Stanstans refuse to admit this.

I see no reason he would lie, he was speaking in private. Maybe you could say he is lying to himself, but I doubt that. I feel he honestly believes that he is the rightful Heir and the only king capable of protecting the realm. So he pursues the throne to a fault.

[The Wolves]

Beats me. Another question would be, what type of person would hate the one dude in the story who's trying to do something good for the realm rather than himself?

And this is why Jon is just so awesome is because he's not in it for himself he's doing it for the people.

I don't think Jon is a hero or anybody because I don't think GRRM's story has any heroes but I think he's just a person whoes trying to save thousands of innocent people.

I don't need Jon to be a morally corrupt person that's all these books are filled with morally corrupt people who have done nothing but bring death and destruction to others, I like Jon just how he is.

[Johnny Snowball]

Glad I'm not alone ^_^ I don't think it's an accident that Sam's name is the same as LotR Sam, who ended up being the real MVP of the story even though he was only cast as the fat sidekick.

I'm just kinda looking at it and Jon and Sam are the Frodo/Samwise of this book who are more or less trying to end the magical evil long term threat.

Where as Danny and Tyrion are kinda like Aragorn and the Boyz trying to fix the short term real world problem like uniting the kingdoms and whatnot.

I'm not at all saying they are the same so don't jump on my back people all I'm saying is that they do have some similarities.

And as to the OP the answer is simple, They hate him because they ain't him. They are peanut better and jealous. 😎

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Because while others want the throne for power, he just wants it because it is his, and his duty to do so. "It is not a question of wanting. The throne is mine, as Robert's heir. That is law. After me, it must pass to my daughter, unless Selyse should finally give me a son. I am king. Wants do not enter into it. I have a duty to my daughter. To the realm. Even to Robert. He loved me but little, I know, yet he was my brother"

OK, this is a genuine puzzle. Why on Earth do so many people take Stannis' blatant self-praise at the face value? Seriously, your argument sounds like "Stannis is awesome. See? Here's a quote where Stannis declares 'I'm awesome'. He is, if he says so". It requires a Herculean effort to reconcile his actual actions (not just, you know, talking about himself) with the concept of someone who allegedly doesn't want the throne.

They, however, make perfect sense if you just accept that he does want it. Actually, "craves" seems more fitting a verb. He might not exactly be on par with Gollum and his Precious (who, too, believed that Precious was "his by rights" and "stolen from him"), but let's be serious. His story is not a story of someone who doesn't want the throne.

[TheMaester]

OK, this is a genuine puzzle. Why on Earth do so many people take Stannis' blatant self-praise at the face value? Seriously, your argument sounds like "Stannis is awesome. See? Here's a quote where Stannis declares 'I'm awesome'. He is, if he says so". It requires a Herculean effort to reconcile his actual actions (not just, you know, talking about himself) with the concept of someone who allegedly doesn't want the throne.

They, however, make perfect sense if you just accept that he does want it. Actually, "craves" seems more fitting a verb. He might not exactly be on par with Gollum and his Precious (who, too, believed that Precious was "his by rights" and "stolen from him"), but let's be serious. His story is not a story of someone who doesn't want the throne.

How is anyone to judge a non POV character off anything but what they say or is said of them? Sure he does WANT the throne, but he wants it not for himself but for the entirety of Westeros. He is the only one who see's the real dual threat of the others and Dany, therefore he is the only king at all capable of saving Westeros from darkness. And... It is his thrown to begin with. Why should anyone judge him for being a little pissed off it was stolen from him.

[The Drunkard]

Only because it would be the second time his younger brother undermined law and stole what was rightfully his. He finds it his duty to save the realm, and obviously thought Renly Incapable.

If Renly cannot obey the law then surely he could not uphold it.

In ACOK he's unaware of the Others and hasn't been convinced of the save the world stuff, duty to the realm couldn't have driven him to confront Renly. There is a part of him that wants the throne; he's felt shafted and denied recognition all his life and now here is his chance to take it but yet again it's being stolen. That he feels this way doesn't diminish his other qualities (after all, he's dutifully lived in Robert's shadow for decades and only acted when it became lawful) but to say that he isn't emotionally driven at least a little is ignoring a lot of what he says. The levels of anger he expresses during their parley, for instance, isn't the mark of a detached man, but someone with a big personal stake in what's going on.

[Pod The Rod]

How is anyone to judge a non POV character off anything but what they say or is said of them? Sure he does WANT the throne, but he wants it not for himself but for the entirety of Westeros. He is the only one who see's the real dual threat of the others and Dany, therefore he is the only king at all capable of saving Westeros from darkness. And... It is his thrown to begin with. Why should anyone judge him for being a little pissed off it was stolen from him.

WTF

Your question is easily answered by reading the post you quoted. As Veldt pointed out, you look at his actions. And his background. In other words, what makes him a person instead of a projection of your ideal badass hero. Both of these show how much of what he says is hollow.

"The real dual threat of the Others and Dany" what is this I dont even...

Did you just say that Daenerys is a threat to Westeros compared to the omnicidal ice demons that want to exterminate all life? And that Stannis is going to stop her? Both of these are patently ludicrous. Stannis isn't even aware of Dany's existence as a power, she isn't a threat to all life as we know it, and she is likely going to be one of the two or three key figures stopping the Others in the end.