GRRM is planning a new surprise plot twist - what could it be?

[addicted to snow]

"In one intriguing new wrinkle, Martin says he just came up with a big, revealing twist on a long-time character that he never previously considered. “This is going to drive your readers crazy,” he teases, “but I love it. I’m still weighing whether to go that direction or not. It’s a great twist. It’s easy to do things that are shocking or unexpected, but they have to grow out of characters. They have to grow out of situations. Otherwise, it’s just being shocking for being shocking. But this is something that seems very organic and natural, and I could see how it would happen. And with the various three, four characters involved… it all makes sense. But it’s nothing I’ve ever thought of before. And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions.”"

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/04/03/george-rr-martin-winds-date

Any guesses what the big twist will be? We should be able to narrow it down based on what we know:

1. It's a twist that he has NOT planned since the beginning, so if it looks like the twist was being set up in the books already, that's not it.

2. The twist is "very organic and natural" and GRRM says he can see how it would happen. It has to be something that fits with the path of the characters involved.

3. The new twist involves 3 or 4 characters.

4. The new twist could not happen on the show because the show has made changes to the character involved that preclude it. Therefore we know it involves a character who has been presented differently in the show from the books in a way that makes the theory not work.

So, does anyone have any guesses? I'm drawing a blank, I thought at first he might go with Jon and Meera are twins, but I can't think of any changes to either character in the show that would preclude that and the casting makes that seem MORE likely. What characters are changed the most between the book and the show?

Ass & Fire... There is no big, new, revealing plot twist that GRRM has never considered before...

He is full of shit... Or rather, he is simply using this "New Plot Twist" as a means of marketing his book series...

I think that something big will happen to Jon Snow @ the end of this HBO season (He will probably become an Other). GRRM is speaking to the HBO viewers who are Jon Snow fans & saying "If you don't like Jon Snow becoming an Other, then buy my books!!!"

That is all that is going on here... Because the way that he writes, GRRM is unable to change direction at a moment's notice...

Besides, what plot twist could only change the story for 4 characters??? None...

[Bastard of Nightsong]

I guess my feeling about this is mostly "Jesus Christ, don't you have enough plots to resolve already? Maybe work on those?"

Maybe this is a resolution for 3-4 plots?

Exactly. A twist need not imply complication. Some twists greatly simplify the plot, or move it forward. Like the Red Wedding, I'd argue.

<snip>

My guesses:

Jeyne Westerling is pregnant. It involves Robb, the Blackfish, Jeyne and maybe Stoneheart and the BWB. It changes the whole North-ruler landscape and its has been left as a possibility, but we were left under the idea that Jeyne's mother made her abort. So its a twist. Maybe not very organic.

<snip>

Probably not, as much as I liked this theory after AFFC. After being asked about it repeatedly, GRRM was forced to effectively deny it by publicly stating that the difference in the way Jeyne's hips are described by Jaime and Catelyn was an error. If he went back to this plot at this point, even if it didn't rely on a Jeyne switch, it would seem outright deceptive in a way our author rarely is. Cagey, yes, but a liar? As always, YMMV.

My first instinct was Theon marrying someone since the shows castration seemed a pretty drastic departure from the books.

Possibly even a betrothal between Theon and Shireen so Stannis can get a fleet

While it's handled very differently (heaven forbid the show ever dealt with anything subtly), the books imply very heavily that Theon was castrated as well. Think the scene after fArya's wedding to Ramsay, when the Bastard asks Theon to "prepare" her for him. Also, "that other thing." No, it's not explicit, but it's relatively clear. If Balon's gonna have any grand kids, they're coming from Asha.

As for the OP's question, and to prove I don't just come here to crap all over other people's ideas: I really don't know. :dunce: I've never been nearly as good at coming up with complex theories as some of the great crackpotters of westeros.org. GRRM, however, has given us some useful clues. As WolfgangII stated, we can use the differences between books and show to identify plots and characters who have been sufficiently altered so as to close off opportunities on HBO, but not for the books. I'd posit that any change GRRM would bother talking about in an interview this excitedly must touch on at least on POV character, or it wouldn't be significant enough to matter. Furthermore, this proposed twist involves 3-4 characters, so it can't be something that only alters the arc of one or two. Neither is it something that directly effects everyone in the story. This isn't Kings Landing exploding in wildfire (that might still happen, it's just not what he's talking about here). In the same vein, it can't alter the "main" ending of the series, because that's supposed to be the same between the show and the books (although I sometimes wish GRRM and HBO would discard this in favor of preserving the surprise for book fans. Ah, well.) Finally, it's an idea that grows organically out of ideas, actions, and symbolism already present, but that wasn't specifically developed before. So if we had a chain of evidence, A+B+C= the parentage of Jon Snow (just for example), it can't be that. BUT, if we also have evidence chains, X+Y+Z= the identity of Azor Ahai Reborn and 1+2+3= the identity of the valonquar (again, just e.g.), then it is possible that this twist develops naturally out of A+Y+3. So some crackpot theorist on these boards may have already come up with it. Just because a certain interpretation of disparate elements led obsessed fans to think of something years ago doesn't mean it occurred to GRRM until recently. He's clever, not omniscient. In fact, this twist may have already been presented on the boards and discarded specifically because it was now impossible in the show. Jeyne being pregnant would certainly be an example of a theory like this, except for the objection I raised earlier. Now none of this is enough for me to pare down the possibilities while simultaneously building theory and say, "That's the twist!" But the collective intelligence and creativity of the board is an incredible resource. I look forward to seeing what other people come up with.

[FreeParking]

This is GRRM so I am assuming more secret Targaryens or people who we thought were dead that are actually still alive.

[Cladinator]

I can't really even speculate but I welcome it.

One of the aspects of ASoIaF that I really enjoy is GRRM's ability to build on characters, their lineage, and history.

[Gendry_Goldeneyes]

Sansa? Jaime? Arriane? Jojen? Mance? Stoneheart? Talisa/Jeyne?

[ICRYRAGE]

Sansa and any other characters around her are the most likely. There have a very different path in the show so the twist would not work there. I've always thought Sansa ended back up in Kingslanding with Aegon. Perhaps she betrays Littlefinger there and causes his death or Aegon's death. Whatever the case I think Sansa is the most likely person to be the center of the twist.

[Nerevanin]

My guess is that the main character the plot twist involves is Sansa, as she is portrayed pretty differently in the books and in the show and her story seems to go in a different way.

Or is it something more definitive than just handling the story in a different way. If the show can't possibly use the plot twist, it might also mean that they killed someone who is happily enjoying his / her life in the books. I admit that I haven't seen all the episodes yet but I know that they killed SPOILER!!!!!!! Irri, Jhiqui, Jojen, Talisa/Jeyne Westerling. END OF SPOILER. So I guess it could involve some of these characters. The handmaidens could have have a secret identity (unlikely), the boy can have some kind of role in the future, Jeyne can be really pregnant. As someone mentioned Theon can also marry someone as he is castrated in the show.

It also can be that the show omitted some characters, but I don't know if there is someone who they deleted in such a way that they can't introduce him / her to the story later. The last thing I can think about is that some characters are supposed to meet in such a way that they can't do it in the show because the characters already met there (for example Brienne and Sandor).

[Sambo Shaw]

Something for Jojen Reed? The show can't follow it, since he was killed on-screen. It could be considered to affect Meera, Bran, Hodor (and Bloodraven...3 or 4 characters.)

[The Dames do Moan]

Jeyne Westerling, against all odds, is pregnant with Robb Stark's son and heir. YES!

No she was given moon tea. But I'm thinking the Blackfish attacks the party with her and Edmure and impregnates Jeyne so they can say its Robb's heir. Jamie did say if she got pregnant within the next 2 years whispers would start that it was Robb's.

The BF may have a floppy fish in this scenerio but he will be able to suffer through for his King.

[Sambo Shaw]

No she was given moon tea. But I'm thinking the Blackfish attacks the party with her and Edmure and impregnates Jeyne so they can say its Robb's heir. Jamie did say if she got pregnant within the next 2 years whispers would start that it was Robb's.

The BF may have a floppy fish in this scenerio but he will be able to suffer through for his King.

I think the "floppy fish" was Edmure, not BF.

[ThePromiseThatWasAPrince]

The point I think The George is trying to make is that he is going to make it so the show and the book are 100% no longer alike, meaning that once he reveals this twist, the show and the book will be total opposites. This gives him freedom to end the books differently than the show, and gives him a better market value.

As for the twist, you hve to take into consideration any 3 or 4 characters that are currently tied to the same plot. So let me see if I can do my own sleuthing:

Jon, Mel, Stannis, and Shireen - Jon Snow is resurrected by Mel, becomes Lightbringer, kills Mel (NIssa NIssa) and becomes betrothed to Shireen. Far fetched, but who knows.

Bran, Meera, Bloodraven, Hodor - We find out Hodor is Bloodraven's kin (through Old Nan, who, even though I cant prove it, I believe is Shiera Seastar) and therefore can help Bran reach Jon and turn the tides in the war.

Dany, Barristan, Jeorah(spelling?), Tyrion - Tyrion convinces Dany to invade, and to rendezvous with (f)Aegon. From there the plot takes off.

Catelyn(Stoneheart), Jaime, Brienna, Pod - This one seems the most likely. Jaime will come out the hero (AKA - the LAST hero) and aid the North after Manderly betrays Bolton. Jaime does, after all, feel an obligation to Catelyn in his path to right all his wrongs.

All in all, who the hell knows what he is gonna do. It could involve 4 characters in 4 different locations that link up because of this twist. we will have to wait and see.

[ThePromiseThatWasAPrince]

The point I think The George is trying to make is that he is going to make it so the show and the book are 100% no longer alike, meaning that once he reveals this twist, the show and the book will be total opposites. This gives him freedom to end the books differently than the show, and gives him a better market value.

As for the twist, you hve to take into consideration any 3 or 4 characters that are currently tied to the same plot. So let me see if I can do my own sleuthing:

Jon, Mel, Stannis, and Shireen - Jon Snow is resurrected by Mel, becomes Lightbringer, kills Mel (NIssa NIssa) and becomes betrothed to Shireen. Far fetched, but who knows.

Bran, Meera, Bloodraven, Hodor - We find out Hodor is Bloodraven's kin (through Old Nan, who, even though I cant prove it, I believe is Shiera Seastar) and therefore can help Bran reach Jon and turn the tides in the war.

Dany, Barristan, Jeorah(spelling?), Tyrion - Tyrion convinces Dany to invade, and to rendezvous with (f)Aegon. From there the plot takes off.

Catelyn(Stoneheart), Jaime, Brienna, Pod - This one seems the most likely. Jaime will come out the hero (AKA - the LAST hero) and aid the North after Manderly betrays Bolton. Jaime does, after all, feel an obligation to Catelyn in his path to right all his wrongs.

All in all, who the hell knows what he is gonna do. It could involve 4 characters in 4 different locations that link up because of this twist. we will have to wait and see.

[ThePromiseThatWasAPrince]

My apologies for the double post.

[A Man Has Said]

I know.

Jon Snow says 'To hell with the Wall,' becomes a dissolute self-indulgent jerk, abandons his task, and spends all his time attending ComicCons.

The Others invade and conquer Westeros, occupy the Iron Throne, wipe out all the Lords Paramount and their families, and write a whole new history of Westeros that has less and less to do with the original each season.

The first rule of writing is, "go with what you know."

[A Man Has Said]

Double post. Sorry.

[Hrulj]

"They have to grow out of situations."

And it’s nothing they can do in the show, because the show has already—on this particular character—made a couple decisions that will preclude it, where in my case I have not made those decisions

Sansa. Definitely something up with Sansa. Probably turning on Littlefinger and taking Vale for herself.

Being that she is in North marrying Ramsay, thats not going to happen in the show.

[Wise Fool]

Jojen Paste. 100% organic, natural and gluten free!

[Sambo Shaw]

The point I think The George is trying to make is that he is going to make it so the show and the book are 100% no longer alike, meaning that once he reveals this twist, the show and the book will be total opposites. This gives him freedom to end the books differently than the show, and gives him a better market value.

As for the twist, you hve to take into consideration any 3 or 4 characters that are currently tied to the same plot. So let me see if I can do my own sleuthing:

Jon, Mel, Stannis, and Shireen - Jon Snow is resurrected by Mel, becomes Lightbringer, kills Mel (NIssa NIssa) and becomes betrothed to Shireen. Far fetched, but who knows.

Bran, Meera, Bloodraven, Hodor - We find out Hodor is Bloodraven's kin (through Old Nan, who, even though I cant prove it, I believe is Shiera Seastar) and therefore can help Bran reach Jon and turn the tides in the war.

Dany, Barristan, Jeorah(spelling?), Tyrion - Tyrion convinces Dany to invade, and to rendezvous with (f)Aegon. From there the plot takes off.

Catelyn(Stoneheart), Jaime, Brienna, Pod - This one seems the most likely. Jaime will come out the hero (AKA - the LAST hero) and aid the North after Manderly betrays Bolton. Jaime does, after all, feel an obligation to Catelyn in his path to right all his wrongs.

All in all, who the hell knows what he is gonna do. It could involve 4 characters in 4 different locations that link up because of this twist. we will have to wait and see.

I've long thought this is a possibility. Not probable, but still.

[The Dames do Moan]

I think the "floppy fish" was Edmure, not BF.

The song was about Edmure but in the scenario I think BF might have it too. Don't think Jeyne is his cup of tea.

[The Dames do Moan]

The point I think The George is trying to make is that he is going to make it so the show and the book are 100% no longer alike, meaning that once he reveals this twist, the show and the book will be total opposites. This gives him freedom to end the books differently than the show, and gives him a better market value.

As for the twist, you hve to take into consideration any 3 or 4 characters that are currently tied to the same plot. So let me see if I can do my own sleuthing:

Jon, Mel, Stannis, and Shireen - Jon Snow is resurrected by Mel, becomes Lightbringer, kills Mel (NIssa NIssa) and becomes betrothed to Shireen. Far fetched, but who knows.

Bran, Meera, Bloodraven, Hodor - We find out Hodor is Bloodraven's kin (through Old Nan, who, even though I cant prove it, I believe is Shiera Seastar) and therefore can help Bran reach Jon and turn the tides in the war.

Dany, Barristan, Jeorah(spelling?), Tyrion - Tyrion convinces Dany to invade, and to rendezvous with (f)Aegon. From there the plot takes off.

Catelyn(Stoneheart), Jaime, Brienna, Pod - This one seems the most likely. Jaime will come out the hero (AKA - the LAST hero) and aid the North after Manderly betrays Bolton. Jaime does, after all, feel an obligation to Catelyn in his path to right all his wrongs.

All in all, who the hell knows what he is gonna do. It could involve 4 characters in 4 different locations that link up because of this twist. we will have to wait and see.

Yeah but I think for the majority of those things the show could easily do the same thing. Just involve someone else instead for Barry and have Jamie become the last hero in another way.