Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 When did Jaehaerys "flip flop" on heirs, all his sons died, is that somehow his fault? He had grandchildren and the inheritance was damn clear, according to Andal law. Jaehaerys => Aemon => Rhaenys => Laenor. He flipped that to Jaehaerys => Baelon for no reason. And later, he flopped around again in the Great Council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 He had grandchildren and the inheritance was damn clear, according to Andal law. Jaehaerys => Aemon => Rhaenys => Laenor. He flipped that to Jaehaerys => Baelon for no reason. And later, he flopped around again in the Great Council. Maybe he didn't want the Targs to be replcaed by the Velaryons. Maybe he saw that Baelon served extremely capably as hand after Barth died and knew he would be a good king. Maybe he saw that his predecesor Maegor inherited his brother's throne and thought Baelon would get away with doing the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Moat Cailin Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 being a badass doesn't make a good king, daeron I was a badass, he was an awful king.How was Daeron an awful king? We don't know anything bad about him, only that he was young and counquered Dorne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Maybe he didn't want the Targs to be replcaed by the Velaryons. Laenor could had took the name Tragaryen. Maybe he saw that Baelon served extremely capably as hand after Barth died and knew he would be a good king. Baelon could also serve as Rhaenys' Hand. Maybe he saw that his predecesor Maegor inherited his brother's throne and thought Baelon would get away with doing the same thing. Maegor took his Throne he didn't inherited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Laenor could had took the name Tragaryen. Baelon could also serve as Rhaenys' Hand. With the seasnake as Laenor's dad both of these seem pretty unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 With the seasnake as Laenor's dad both of these seem pretty unlikely. Not if he wanted his son to become the King x2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Maybe he didn't want the Targs to be replcaed by the Velaryons. Maybe he saw that Baelon served extremely capably as hand after Barth died and knew he would be a good king. Maybe he saw that his predecesor Maegor inherited his brother's throne and thought Baelon would get away with doing the same thing. And maybe these are the reasons he told hmself while fucking up royally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 And maybe these are the reasons he told hmself while fucking up royally. Why was choosing Baelon and then Viserys as heir a fuck up? If he had chosen Rhaenys the Dance would have happend anyway just with different contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bright Blue Eyes Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Why was choosing Baelon and then Viserys as heir a fuck up? If he had chosen Rhaenys the Dance would have happend anyway just with different contenders. If he had simply adhered to the established inheritance laws (the ones putting him on the throne), Rhaenys and later Laenor would have ruled without any problems. They had the legal right and the backing of more than enough powerful people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If he had simply adhered to the established inheritance laws (the ones putting him on the throne), Rhaenys and later Laenor would have ruled without any problems. They had the legal right and the backing of more than enough powerful people Did they have backing? Since Viserys beat Laenor 20 to 1 in supporters in the great council of 101. They only had the Baratheons, the Starks and the Velaryons on their side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 We are kinda getting off topic here, we could open another thread for discusion of the old king and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 If he had chosen Rhaenys the Dance would have happend anyway just with different contenders. How is that possible? Once Rhaenys would be the Queen her son King Laenor would still marry Rhaenyra or his sister. How the Dance could take place then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I don't think so. The society is as sexist as their rulers. The Andal law was clear "The heir's heir is the heir." it never said if the heir's heir is a girl then the line changes. That was only the Targs. So it wasn't Westeros it was Jaehaerys who was the sexist one and caused havoc with that choice. Which is incorrect in the first part. The Andal Law is clear in that people inherit after their age in the lines of sons, daughters, uncles, aunts and so on. But I agree that it don't say that if the heir's heir is female the heir should be passed over. He had grandchildren and the inheritance was damn clear, according to Andal law. Jaehaerys => Aemon => Rhaenys => Laenor. He flipped that to Jaehaerys => Baelon for no reason. And later, he flopped around again in the Great Council. I agree about Andal Law and the line of inheritance. Rhaenys was the heir who was robbed of her throne by the Old King. Did they have backing? Since Viserys beat Laenor 20 to 1 in supporters in the great council of 101. They only had the Baratheons, the Starks and the Velaryons on their side. Well, that's two Great Houses and further more I recall the Manderlys and Dustins having spoken in her favor. And the Velaryons were also powerful at this point. But I also agree that most likely Rhaenys would frankly have been outnumbered by a great degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibzit Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 I started another thread talking about Jaehaerys so we who want to discuss him can continue there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 Which is incorrect in the first part. The Andal Law is clear in that people inherit after their age in the lines of sons, daughters, uncles, aunts and so on. But I agree that it don't say that if the heir's heir is female the heir should be passed over. Sorry but my english died could you explain that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 There is no such thing as 'Andal Law' demanding that Jaehaerys I name Rhaenys his heir after Aemon's death. If this had been the case he would have done it. He would also have done it if he had believed that this was what most his lords wanted him to do. The fact that he chose Baelon is a pretty big hint that the lords wanted a male heir, not a female heir - which means that tradition and custom did not favor a female heir. We see how popular Rhaenys' son Laenor - the male scion of the elder Targaryen line - is on the Great Council. It is 20:1 in favor of Viserys - this would also not have been the case if the consensus at the council was that Laenor was the true heir according to 'law' as the lords voting for Viserys would not have thought of themselves as 'lawbreakers', no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdoTheChoombi Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 umm, i thought this thread was about maegor, not jaehaerys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdoTheChoombi Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 (double post)How was Daeron an awful king? We don't know anything bad about him, only that he was young and counquered Dorneand failed at that, invading dorne is the westeros version of invading russia in the winter, it just doesn't work, his war brought much death misery to dorne, and to westeros, all because he was young and arrogant and thought he could do anything.as far as i'm concerned, any king who willingly drags his realm to war and doesn't win it is an awful king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 There is no such thing as 'Andal Law' demanding that Jaehaerys I name Rhaenys his heir after Aemon's death. If this had been the case he would have done it. He would also have done it if he had believed that this was what most his lords wanted him to do. The fact that he chose Baelon is a pretty big hint that the lords wanted a male heir, not a female heir - which means that tradition and custom did not favor a female heir. We see how popular Rhaenys' son Laenor - the male scion of the elder Targaryen line - is on the Great Council. It is 20:1 in favor of Viserys - this would also not have been the case if the consensus at the council was that Laenor was the true heir according to 'law' as the lords voting for Viserys would not have thought of themselves as 'lawbreakers', no? Wasn't Jon who said daughters before uncles and wasn't Cerelle Lannister who became the Lady of the Rock even if her father's brother was alive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdoTheChoombi Posted May 11, 2015 Share Posted May 11, 2015 yeah, daughters usually go before uncles, Jaehaerys and the great council defied the law there.to be fair, viserys was a pretty good king, things only got screwd up after he died(still on him, of course, it's like robert).....wait, did i just set up robert as an example for a good king? my logic got screwd here, restart. Jaehaerys defied andal law, which was targaryen law as well for all i care, that is his one fault in my eyes.BUT, he did it on some fair arguments for it, for one he didn't want the throne to pass away from the targaryen house.secondly, he didn't want a women on the throne, not going to defend that.thirdly, he thought Viserys would make a better thing, and as far as i'm concerned Viserys's reign was quite prosperous for the most part.mind, other than the inheritance debacle, i tend to see Jaehaerys as the greatest king in the history of the iron throne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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