MNb Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 1. Stannis kills four rivals by means of magic. He should continue to do so iso starting a risky campaign in the North. 2. Winter is coming, so knows every man from the North. Roose Bolton is a seasoned one. He knows that military campaigns during winter are impossible (winter campaigns are quite recent, made possible by technology). Still he stays in the ruins of Winterfell, risking death by starvation and frostbite. Stannis and Manderlyprobably should realize it too. Everyone should have gone home at the first snowfall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Only we don't know that Stannis really had two four characters die through magic. I don't buy it for a second, and I know there are several people who don't either. So, there. Four? hmm I'm confused now. Because it could be argued, by those who believe Mel's trick with the leeches, that five characters have died through R'hllor's magic/power. So, who are the four you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Stannis can't shadowbaby assassinate all of his enemies. And I lean toward Mel only forseeing the deaths of Robb, Joffrey, and Balon in the fires, and manipulating Stannis to believe magic caused them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Arryn Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Not really holes, but more weak points IMO.1) we're given to understand that each SB cost Stannis and he had (for now) no more to give. Does make the earlier ones seem D.E.M.ish, but not unaccounted for by the author.2) going home doesn't really stop winter. He wanted to solidify his power. Time wasn't entirely of his choosing. Additionally, winter isn't monolithic. It builds, and while it builds people fix roofs, granaries, etc. IMO that's essentially what he was doing; getting his house in order before winter really arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilrob6 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 He can't make infinite shadowbabies. It would physically kill him. The effect of Melisandre's sorcery on Stannis is significant. He appears to have aged years after siring a shadow assassin on her. Davos notices that his eyes are like dark blue bruises in the hollows of his face. Perhaps this is why no shadow assassin is used during the Battle of the Blackwaterhttp://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Shadow_assassin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 Not really holes, but more weak points IMO.1) we're given to understand that each SB cost Stannis and he had (for now) no more to give. Does make the earlier ones seem D.E.M.ish, but not unaccounted for by the author.2) going home doesn't really stop winter. He wanted to solidify his power. Time wasn't entirely of his choosing. Additionally, winter isn't monolithic. It builds, and while it builds people fix roofs, granaries, etc. IMO that's essentially what he was doing; getting his house in order before winter really arrived. Exactly, I forgot to address that part. And adding to what you said, Roose would be better off in Winterfell than the Dreadfort anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 1) the leeches most likely killed nobody. Mel probably saw the deaths in her flames and used the leeches as a ruse to make herself seem more powerful and convince Stannis to give her Edric to wake the dragon from stone.2) Staying in Winterfell vs staying in the Dreadfort. It's six and two threes, although Winterfell has the added bonus of being the symbolic seat of the Lord of the North and the hot springs too, which are obviously a great asset during Winter. He also isn't risking death from starvation and frostbite. That's what he would be doing if he had, for example, marched on the Wall to confront Stannis. He is just letting Stannis come to him and take those risks instead. (Well, until he decides to ease some tensions and send out the Manderlys and Freys to an all too likely death) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilrob6 Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 He can't make infinite shadowbabies. It would physically kill him. And he only killed one rival, Renly, with magic (when presuming he knew about the first shadow baby). The leeches sacrifice was just a farce by Melisandre. She probably saw the death of the kings in her fires, just like she saw Renly's death. Then made it seem like the leeches caused it, to convince Stannis about the power of King's blood. GRRM gives us all the real reasons why Robb, Joffrey and Balon really died. The effect of Melisandre's sorcery on Stannis is significant. He appears to have aged years after siring a shadow assassin on her. Davos notices that his eyes are like dark blue bruises in the hollows of his face. Perhaps this is why no shadow assassin is used during the Battle of the Blackwaterhttp://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Shadow_assassin Roose decision to stay at Winterfell is not a plot hole. It just a strategic decision that will either work for him, or doesn't. Scattering the troops all over the North is probably not a good idea. Especially with Stannis already on the march. They probably brought a lot of food and Roose is already sending out troops (Freys and Manderly's) towards Stannis to make the place less crowded. Even in ruins, Winterfell is too important in the North to just give up. (sorry for the partly double post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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