Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Your current argumentative tactic, because you have lost this conversation, is to manipulate my words. It's a sign that you've lost. Let it go, man. So is Stannis marching to KL to take the IT or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Is Stannis marching to KL or not? "This War of Five Kings means nothing. The true war lies to the North, my King. Death marches on the wall. Only you can stop it. https://youtu.be/6o8BUlj6LEU?t=39s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I came with quotes, analysis and show clips. Try harder next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I came with quotes, analysis and show clips. Try harder next time. You never answered my question. Is Stannis marching south or staying in the north? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You never answered my question. Is Stannis marching south or staying in the north? Do you even read, bro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I mean to be fair to you, I have acknowledged to myself that you are inherently just a troll about 10 pages back, so I don't expect a real conversation here. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojji Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Guys if you're arguing about the show, what Stannis will or will not do, just stop.There is no way of knowing what they will write in to the show. D&D have proven that they don't care about characteristics before, so there is no logic you can apply here. If they want something to happen, they'll make do.Creatively it made sense to us, because we wanted it to happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Do you even read, bro? Now you are being evasive and coy, refusing to answer the question. How am I the troll when it is you that ducks and dodges and hides behind vague quotes? So I'll ask again... Is Stannis heading south to take his seat on the IT, or is he staying the north to battle the WW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Now you are being evasive and coy, refusing to answer the question. How am I the troll when it is you that ducks and dodges and hides behind vague quotes? So I'll ask again... Is Stannis heading south to take his seat on the IT, or is he staying the north to battle the WW? Coy? No, I assumed you were trolling because I addressed this idea SIX SEPARATE TIMES IN MY POSTS, so I wanted to sincerely ask if you even read my posts? These are all either in direct response to your assertion taht Stannis is going south or reiterating my thought, supported my Mel's quote about the True War being in the North, is where Stannis will stay. I have said explicitly in a previous post that I do not expect Stannis to take his rightful place as King at this moment in time. I do not expect him to waste time marching all across the lands to unite Westeros because he knows the WW are coming. What I have said is that he currently has two primary responsibilities his duty will not allow him to ignore: 1) Rightful King of the Iron Thrones 2) AAR and Savior of humanity. So, have you read any of my posts? Where do I say that Stannis should engage in a prolonged military campaign to sit the Iron Throne? Stannis is engaging in a battle against the Boltons that has the potential to unite the North when they are unseated. This battle helps his ultimate goal of winning the war against the WWs. Pretty simple stuff. You said war, so I assume you are talking about the WW's here, because I have explicitly stated several times that Stannis is not and will not be engaged in a war for the iron throne at the present moment with a host of undead working their way to the Wall: ... I must have missed the scene where Davos and Stannis planned their march on the Riverlands. Maybe it's in the extended directors cut? What evidence do you have to support the idea that Stannis plans on continuing his march all around Westeros which flies in the face of everything Melisandre has explained to him about the Greater War against the WW/Others. Where is that in the show? As soon as Stannis learned about what was happening at the Wall, they booked it for the North. Ever since they have been in the North, they have been focusing on this Greater War. This small-scope strategic Battle helps further their abilities to wage the Greater War, and as an ancillary lesser benefit also aligns with Stannis' second great responsibility and duty as the rightful ruler of the Iron Throne, which ultimately only matters insomuch as there are humans to rule. When the Greater War is over I fully expect Stannis to resume his press for his claim. (if he was to survive, which i think we all suspect he will not) Stannis is not marching South. This is just so ridiculous I don't fathom how you got that notion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 I mean honestly dude... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roxWolfox Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 If I recall, showStannis told Jon that he would need his ships back to be able to return to the south. So (to me) that means that Stannis plans to return to the Wall after reclaiming Winterfell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Ok, so let's try to make sense of Stannis staying in the north because he is intent on fighting the WW. Why the hell would he get mired in northern politics and a protracted war against the Boltons? Why wouldn't he head over with Snow with news of the WW and zombies? If he's all about the north, why would he prclaim that his daughter is to take the IT if he is slain in battle? Oops. He killed his daughter on the show, so I guess that confuses things even more. Why does Jon make a point of distinguishing his war against the WW from Stannis' war for the IT? Why is Jon concerned that if the Lannisters defeat Stannis it could affect the Night's Watch? Why would Stannis be fighting the Lannisters if he's in the north? None of this makes any sense. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 If I recall, showStannis told Jon that he would need his ships back to be able to return to the south. So (to me) that means that Stannis plans to return to the Wall after reclaiming Winterfell. Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Melisandre: You must become king before the Long Night begins. Only you could lead the living against the dead. That's Stannis's motivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Melisandre: You must become king before the Long Night begins. Only you could lead the living against the dead. That's Stannis's motivation. That's the TV version of Stannis, yes. Precisely the version that makes no sense. So he is heading down to King's Landing to take back the Iron Throne, then? How else can he become king is not by defeating the southern armies and taking King's Landing, right? But this will take at least a year, if not years since he is presently north of Winterfell and it is winter. The WW and Zombie army are a couple weeks march from the Wall. So there is no time. None of this makes any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 That's the TV version of Stannis, yes. Precisely the version that makes no sense. So he is heading down to King's Landing to take back the Iron Throne, then? How else can he become king is not by defeating the southern armies and taking King's Landing, right? But this will take at least a year, if not years since he is presently north of Winterfell and it is winter. The WW and Zombie army are a couple weeks march from the Wall. So there is no time. None of this makes any sense. The White Walkers have been marching since the start of the series. They are very slow. I doubt they're going to show up at the Wall any time soon. Besides, your argument would carry more weight if you say what you think Stannis should do. What's a better alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idio Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 This is so tedious... Why the hell would he get mired in northern politics and a protracted war against the Boltons? To answer your loaded question: Because the gains of a United North give him his best chance to battle the WWs. Because he believes Melisandre's proclamation that he is AAR enough that he cannot ignore it, because he thinks that if she is right it is his duty to save Westeros. To get to the assumptions built in to your question: Mired: What politics is he currently "mired" in? He is currently involved in one major political / military act, which is unseating the Boltons in hopes of rallying the North. Where is the mire? Protracted war: When the snow lifts he will be at Winterfell. It seems likely this will be Episode 10, or Season 6 could start out with the Battle. For starters, protracted sieges have a way of becoming unprotracted when you have Magic on your side. The Red God saved Stannis from a protacted siege before, perhaps he will again. We do not know. But furthermore, to me it stands to reason Stannis will win or lose the Battle of Ice, but it will not be protracted simply because he doesn't have the resources to lay in wait for a long siege. He will likely take some risky action that will make the battle decisive... or he will starve in a matter of weeks. Either way, "protracted" is not what comes to my mind when I think about the looming assault on Winterfell. And I could be wrong, but I don't see how Stannis surives long enough for it to last a long time if he doesn't win rather quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 The White Walkers have been marching since the start of the series. They are very slow. I doubt they're going to show up at the Wall any time soon. Besides, your argument would carry more weight if you say what you think Stannis should do. What's a better alternative? Perhaps there is no better alternative, but we certainly don't see Stannis struggling with that problem in the show do we? He's just a mish-mash of motivations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon in the North Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Perhaps there is no better alternative, but we certainly don't see Stannis struggling with that problem in the show do we? He's just a mish-mash of motivations. Ok. But why does Stannis marching on Winterfell in the books make more sense than in the show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borodin Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 This is so tedious... Only because you're offering up a fan theory that contradicts so many plot points from the books and even some from the show. Perhaps the conflict between your fan theory and these plot points is an indication that you've got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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