Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Lets say in the books Stannis wins and D&D decided to stay loyal to this and had Stannis won WF in the show. Where do you guys think the story with him would have gone had he won? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys III of his name Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 in the show:if he had won with his remaining army there was always Brienne coming for him...maybe after the battle he could have been tired so he asks her to wait for a personal combat the day after, she's invited to winterfell she meet Sansa and Theon, then during the night she decides if fight or not, then she decides to do because her will of revenge is strong, Stannis cannot refuse a personal combat so they fight and he, not having Mel to protect him in some manner, loses the match and dies, obviously he says his men to leave her go in case of defeat. Sansa stays in winterfell protected by Stannis'men, Brienne and Pod go in search of Rickon There's to say that Roose could have been stayed protected inside the castle so after the battle Stannis should have started a siege, in that case there would have been the personal combat outside and death of Stannis, so Roose practically win losing only his bastard son and most of his army (they have just to stay inside the wall till the remaining army of Stannis starve to death or surrender, Roose obviously accepts and when they're in he flays everyone to avenge his son) IF by huge miracle Stannis win the personal combat, in that case he sends a raven to davos sending him in search of Rickon like in the books, and he prepares a plan how to attack in the south, it will take a while to gather all the men of the north and if in the meanwhile tommen dies..he could even reconvert back to the seven faith to please the high septon and militant faith to open the doors of KL for him Not sure what could have happened in the books i dont remember well all the particulars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 He would have followed Stannis's overarching plan in the book, which is to secure the North. He doesn't have the strength yet, even augmented by the Northern lords he's collected to march on the Iron Throne, and more importantly he's realized that the Wall is where the great battle of his time is about to be fought. He would secure Moat Cailin, root out the rest of Bolton's men, probably turned the Dreadfort over to someone or used it as his personal HQ if Davos returned with Rickon, leaving Winterfell to the Starks. Once he's secured the North, rallied all the lords, he makes sure Moat Cailin is fortified then returns to the Wall. He was adamant in the books that Jon Snow work on manning each and every castle, so much so that he promised he'd make Jon Snow pay dearly if he didn't prepare for the Others. That's my take. It would have been an excellent season and given us a good lead in for the next one. But no, Shireen burns and the Ides of Olly----that was the acceptable endgame for the D's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Lets say in the books Stannis wins and D&D decided to stray loyal to this and had Stannis won WF in the show. Where do you guys think the story with him would have gone had he won? The problem that I see no way around is that Stannis has led his army into the heart of the north with what is widely expected to be the harshest winter in memory coming on. There is NO . . . WAY . . . he could march that army out of there intact in winter. His best hope is to hole up inside of Winterfell until winter is over however many years that might be. Even that hope is not a good one, because he will have had no time to prepare to feed an army during winter and will just have to subsist on whatever the Boltons leave behind. And if it looks like things are going Stannis's way, Roose could always fire his stores, retreat, and leave Stannis with an empty castle and an empty victory. I really couldn't see marching your southron army to Winterfell in the winter as anything but a bonehead move. MAYBE if they had been able to swoop down there instantly and take the castle before winter fell . . . but that didn't happen. Stannis is in a no-win situation at the end of book 5. It really doesn't matter whether he defeats the Boltons or not, he has already lost his army to winter. It's a dead army walking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acosta Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Considering the state his army was already in, even a successful siege leaves him at best a thousand men to hold up in Winterfell with. You figure he'd try to rally some northern support, but the way this thing's going Littlefinger was gonna roll up and annihilate him anyway. He should have just stayed at Castle Black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseka Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Considering the state his army was already in, even a successful siege leaves him at best a thousand men to hold up in Winterfell with. You figure he'd try to rally some northern support, but the way this thing's going Littlefinger was gonna roll up and annihilate him anyway. He should have just stayed at Castle Black. Littlefinger has 0 experience in military leadership. He might be bad enough that Stannis would defeat him while outnumbered 10:1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Littlefinger has 0 experience in military leadership. He might be bad enough that Stannis would defeat him while outnumbered 10:1. Plus if Stannis seizes WF it would be very costly to siege and plus when Stannis names Sansa warden of the North the Vale would have a hard time motivating to fight for a lord they don't like in LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tseka Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Plus if Stannis seizes WF it would be very costly to siege and plus when Stannis names Sansa warden of the North the Vale would have a hard time motivating to fight for a lord they don't like in LF Also the Vale soldiers haven't ventured outside their castle defense positions since Robert's Rebellion. At one point they might have been some of the most formidable soldiers in Westeros but @ this point they're the only army that doesn't have war experience from the War of the 5 Kings besides Dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor's Dragon Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Considering the state his army was already in, even a successful siege leaves him at best a thousand men to hold up in Winterfell with. You figure he'd try to rally some northern support, but the way this thing's going Littlefinger was gonna roll up and annihilate him anyway. He should have just stayed at Castle Black. See my above post (re Stannis can't make it out of there with his army). If Littlefinger ain't at Winterfell yet, he ain't coming. It's too late. Marshal Winter will crush his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion Reek Snow Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 He would have followed Stannis's overarching plan in the book, which is to secure the North. He doesn't have the strength yet, even augmented by the Northern lords he's collected to march on the Iron Throne, and more importantly he's realized that the Wall is where the great battle of his time is about to be fought. He would secure Moat Cailin, root out the rest of Bolton's men, probably turned the Dreadfort over to someone or used it as his personal HQ if Davos returned with Rickon, leaving Winterfell to the Starks. Once he's secured the North, rallied all the lords, he makes sure Moat Cailin is fortified then returns to the Wall. He was adamant in the books that Jon Snow work on manning each and every castle, so much so that he promised he'd make Jon Snow pay dearly if he didn't prepare for the Others. That's my take. It would have been an excellent season and given us a good lead in for the next one. But no, Shireen burns and the Ides of Olly----that was the acceptable endgame for the D's. It indeed sounds excellent; a little bit too intelligent and out of the reach of D&D's creative talents (or lack thereof) though. If only you were writing for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cool but I always had this idea that Sansa would help Stannis take WF so he names her Wardeness of the North rallying the remaining houses behind him. Then LF matches with the Vale into the North but instead of fighting he joins Stannis with the deal once Stannis wins he can marry Sansa and unite the Vale and North and Stannis agrees but only because Sansa would tell him beforehand about B&R being alive so he knows once they are found LF scheme goes up in smoke. So Stannis leads a Baratheon-North-Sellsword-Vale army against the Lannisters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It indeed sounds excellent; a little bit too intelligent and out of the reach of D&D's creative talents (or lack thereof) though. If only you were writing for the show. That;s a great compliment, so thank you :) The really sad part is I keep on thinking up ways they could have salvaged the debacle of having Shireen sacrificed that would not have compromised their screwed up version of Stannis but still told a compelling and competent narrative. He was a character----who regardless of what he did (or in the book's case, didn't do)---deserved a grander fate, good or bad, then the one he got. It's almost petty with the level of serial humiliation they forced on him, and quite honestly I never bought into Brienne's whole vengeance angle. While BookBrienne might have said something similar (I can't remember precisely tbh), she really wasn't fixated on it later in her quest. Her goal was keeping the Stark girls alive, and trying to be an honorable warrior in a very dishonorable place and time. She wept for killing a psychotic jester for Christ's sake. The biggest red flag in her case was her fight with Jaime. I loathed that scene as presented in the series. One it basically puts Brienne on a level with Ser Arthur Dayne, which is ridiculous, but it also completely ruined the reputation of Jaime Lannister as a fighter. Their duel in the books was freaking epic, and the whole time---even with Jaime chained and out of shape---she was barely staying alive, using her Westerosi equivalent of the rope-a-dope to wear him down. It was a magnificent send-off to the character Jaime would cease to be when his hand got chopped off. She was a better person in general in the books, gentler and kinder. But the D's can't do gentle or kind. All they can do is tough girl stereotypes. Witness the butchering of Ellaria Sand. God forbid we have a character not frothing at the mouth for vengeance. That's all any character in this show is allowed to be any more. So yeah, of all the failures of this show and season, the triad of Brienne, Ellaria and most importantly Stannis are the most hateful IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eucratides_Megas Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cool but I always had this idea that Sansa would help Stannis take WF so he names her Wardeness of the North rallying the remaining houses behind him. Then LF matches with the Vale into the North but instead of fighting he joins Stannis with the deal once Stannis wins he can marry Sansa and unite the Vale and North and Stannis agrees but only because Sansa would tell him beforehand about B&R being alive so he knows once they are found LF scheme goes up in smoke. So Stannis leads a Baratheon-North-Sellsword-Vale army against the Lannisters That right there would have been a great way to stay somewhat true to the Stannis story in the books. They could even have worked in a plot where Theon tells Stannis of some vital weak-spot in the Bolton defenses of Winterfell, giving him a perfect way to return the "20 good men" bullshit right back at Ramsay, like his soldiers sneak inside, butcher the watchmen and open the castle to his army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robasp2 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Stannis would never win all the battles.Rhllor only wanted him to save the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 They could even have worked in a plot where Theon tells Stannis of some vital weak-spot in the Bolton defenses of Winterfell, giving him a perfect way to return the "20 good men" bullshit right back at Ramsay, like his soldiers sneak inside, butcher the watchmen and open the castle to his army The thing is I feel it would have to be Sansa because it would at least justify in some the crap she got this season so you can say "hey she is no longer on the sidelines and finally taking charge" you can then have Reek kill Ramsey during the battle with a big "NOT REEK THEON!!" moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombies That Were Promised Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 When Stannis lost I thought they had just dropped "the finest military commander in Westeros" part about him from the books, but I was rewatching 5x04 and Littlefinger actually calls him just that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Long Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The show battle was suicidal to say the least. He did not even deploy his archers which could have mauled the enemy's cavalry or broken their impetus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 When Stannis lost I thought they had just dropped "the finest military commander in Westeros" part about him from the books, but I was rewatching 5x04 and Littlefinger actually calls him just that An they did a terrible job showing it I mean they didn't have any military guy to help them with these battle so they wouldn't make dumb mistakes like put Stannis in clear position for a pincer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nyser1 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 An they did a terrible job showing it I mean they didn't have any military guy to help them with these battle so they wouldn't make dumb mistakes like put Stannis in clear position for a pincer? Fortunately we may find out what happens if Stannis won the battle....TWOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Fortunately we may find out what happens if Stannis won the battle....TWOW I say more then may I think the odds are very good he wins and it sucks that the show won't give us that moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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