divine_moose Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Melisandre was able to arrive at Castle Black so quickly because, the plot. And hundreds of horses were able to be smuggled away without anyone noticing because they all had snow booties (hoovies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Well, traveling alone is faster than moving an entire army and its supply wagons, tents, weapons, whatever. As for the sellswords leaving, that was a stupid move to begin with in the plot. If Stannis got the gold from Braavos, it would have surely suffice to pay a large army. So them sellswords leaving without getting paid and taking the horses with them is retard. On the other hand, it struck me as odd when Stan said "siege begins at sunrise". Siege, how? We see the entirety of his army when they charge against the Bolton mounted troops, are footmen and we can´t see any wagons of any kind that would transport tools to at least build some battering rams and ladders. Another thing: a large host of mounted troops surprising a marching army right in the front of the castle only tells me one thing: Stannis didn´t had scouts, and the Bolton did. In short: Stannis was portrayed, in the end, as a fanatic, a clumsy commander and a kinslayer. If they pick him up in th enext season they better redeem him. Stannis arc, in the end, It was pure illogical effectism. It had some top class scenes but everything sorrounding the battle was stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Stannis had just arrived when the boltons attacked and they were seen at once they were outside thegates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Stannis had just arrived when the boltons attacked and they were seen at once they were outside thegates Bolton men were saddling up long before Stannis showed with his army. This can only mean they had some men tracking their march and Stannis was literally just walking towards Winterfell. Thats silly. Unless... The series Stannis was literally walking towards his death and with him all the fanatics that didnt desert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Doesnt it make sense for the boltons to have spies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Of course they did. That may be the only way to explain the "20 good ninjas" that burned everything down in camp. Besides, there is intel gathering going on: we see several examples with Roose and Ramsay around a map table with pieces of military on it. STannis too had a map table (its evident in the Shireen hug scene). Point is, how come no Stan scout was posted outside of Winterfell (it was easy as renting a room in Brienne´s inn, who was looking at the castle the whole season) to check that huge 1500 full mounted soldiers getting into position in a ambush position (Stannis dont see them until they charge). If he gave up tracking the Bolton movements he was truly walking blindly too his death. Ultimate blow on his arc and thats why I think hes not coming back. ITs just over. ANyway im going off topic. Its just a scene that was absurd to me, even tho there are 40 seconds of pure film production gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mafro987daboss Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Does anyone feel like the deserters will play a part in later seasons, or will the show drop them into Gendry territory? I was thinking earlier about their link to Braavos, where Arya is, who coincidentally wants Melisandre killed. Could this tie in two plotlines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennelmaster Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 To be honest though I kind of think the men went over to Winterfell and joined Ramsay. Roose was preparing for a seige. Housing what looked liek 2000 horses over the winter during a seige seems pretty foolish to me. Where did all of Bolton's men come from? The Bolton's aren't very well liked in the North so I wouldn't imagine there was a big rush to sign up to join them. Earlier Roose had expressed concern about the fact that Tywin Lannister was no longer alive to back him up and that he wasn't well liked among the other houses of the North. His strategy was to outlast Stannis by staying behind the walls of Winterfell and waiting for Stannis' troops to freeze or starve. He talked about how secure the castle was against invaders. Now all of a sudden he has plenty of troops and horses and is on the attack? With no explanation as to where the extra forces came from? When did his strategy change? Then there was Ramsey leading the troops instead of Roose. Doesn't Roose have more experience? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturno Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Seems like rushed broken plotline. Are we really supposed to believe that loyal Baratheon bannerman and Calvary deserted their king because he burnt his daughter alive? He has been burning people all along, why would they care now. These are also the men who went north of the wall, fought in the battle of blackwater etc. What is even more funny is that he doesnt know until the next day. Seriously ALL your horses leave your camp and no one notices. hahaha. He only burned Mance Rayder, no one else. To what gain, I don't know, the show is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Citadel of Masyaf Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The whole incident with the collapse and destruction of Stannis's side in the show also makes the Iron Bank look ridiculous and absurdly hyped. The books' version of the Iron Bank is a fearsome entity that cannot be defied lightly. In the show, the mercenaries hired with the gold it provides failed to progress the objective of the Iron Bank receiving its due. The show's earlier scenes describing both Stannis and the Iron Bank do not mesh well with what started happening in this season. The show even originally gave the impression that Stannis would valued Shireen more than victory. Ultimately, D&D's Stannis/North elements were flooded with illogical facets, defy reason, and display lack of concern for quality story crafting. The problem lies with D&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarkofWinterfell Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 .No, he didn't. Reily was killed by a sword. Wielded by a shadowbaby. And almost nobody in the realm believes Stannis was behind it, since most people in Westeros don't believe in magic and shadowbabies.And even if they thought he was responsible, killing your adult traitor brother you were at war with =/= burning your innocent little daughter and only child and heir.I support every "Fuck you D&D" message, but you chose the wrong argument and the wrong thing to complain about. Come on. Of course Stannis would lose support if he did that (though probably not of mercenaries, they don't care as long as they get paid). The problem is that it makes no sense to do that in the first place. You might want to reread his post. He wasn't talking about Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettes Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 He only burned Mance Rayder, no one else. To what gain, I don't know, the show is stupid. He burnt Axell Florent lord of brightwater keep and his uncle by law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Klausewitz Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Bolton men were saddling up long before Stannis showed with his army. This can only mean they had some men tracking their march and Stannis was literally just walking towards Winterfell. Thats silly. Unless... The series Stannis was literally walking towards his death and with him all the fanatics that didnt desert. This is what i think.After all that happens to him in ep9/10 i guess he kind of welcomes death.What is there to live for him anyways,he remains stubborn even on the brink of defeat. OT:By now i dont even think the sellswords left because of the burning...these people know worse.I believe they left because sellswords are loyal only to gold,and there is no gold in defeat only death.The men that stayed by Stannis side were either fanatics or loyal Baratheon men (probably a mix of both) And even when it comes to battle you can see men fleeing from aerial view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Long Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 He basically committed suicide by battle. A smart commander would have used his archers behind stakes, with the forest perhaps anchoring his flanks. He did none of this and did not display a will to live in this battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChromeWeasel Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Where did all of Bolton's men come from? The Bolton's aren't very well liked in the North so I wouldn't imagine there was a big rush to sign up to join them. Earlier Roose had expressed concern about the fact that Tywin Lannister was no longer alive to back him up and that he wasn't well liked among the other houses of the North. His strategy was to outlast Stannis by staying behind the walls of Winterfell and waiting for Stannis' troops to freeze or starve. He talked about how secure the castle was against invaders. Now all of a sudden he has plenty of troops and horses and is on the attack? With no explanation as to where the extra forces came from? When did his strategy change? Then there was Ramsey leading the troops instead of Roose. Doesn't Roose have more experience? The sellswords that defected from Stannis ended up fighting for the Boltons. They were probably bribed by Ramsey when he sneaked into camp. That's why there was so much cavalry against Stannis. It explains how lopsided the battle was and why everyone was so surprised. If I was directing I would have had Stannis mutter something under his breath like 'fucking sellswords...' to make it more clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The other prince Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Seems like rushed broken plotline. Are we really supposed to believe that loyal Baratheon bannerman and Calvary deserted their king because he burnt his daughter alive? He has been burning people all along, why would they care now. These are also the men who went north of the wall, fought in the battle of blackwater etc. What is even more funny is that he doesnt know until the next day. Seriously ALL your horses leave your camp and no one notices. hahaha. They have cared all along. This is the straw that broke the Camels back. It wasn't rushed really, it just demonstrated that they had finally had enough. What kind of man burns his own daughter? What do they mean to a person like that? besides Ser Klausewitz is probably right the sell swords were likely bought off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Klausewitz Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The sellswords that defected from Stannis ended up fighting for the Boltons. They were probably bribed by Ramsey when he sneaked into camp. That's why there was so much cavalry against Stannis. It explains how lopsided the battle was and why everyone was so surprised. If I was directing I would have had Stannis mutter something under his breath like 'fucking sellswords...' to make it more clear. Damn that makes so much sense...didn't see it that way but it answers two questions at once...good thought,Ser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 In the scene where Sansa walks around Winterfell between the soldiers gettin ready we dont get to see any sellsword banners save but Boltons. But I do hope they explain where the duck did they get a full host of mounted solds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebookless Man Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I' ll eat my shorts if they explain it. Those people couldn't write their way out of a paper bag, and those who bend over backwards to make sense of the story are actually making this even more clear. It's not up to the audience to find some convoluted way for the story to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saturno Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 He burnt Axell Florent lord of brightwater keep and his uncle by law Oh yeah, that's true! I forgot about him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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