Why All The Walder Frey Hate?

[thelittledragonthatcould]

While that is true, I seriously doubt the Boltons gave the Cerwyns bread and salt. That was a backstabbing betrayal of Ramsay Bolton.

Not that it would have counted anyway as it was outside of Wintferfell, just like the 3,500 soldiers were outside of the Twins. That is not to absolve Walder of the many inside who he broke guest rights against.

But it would have counted, as guest rights promise safety under the hosts roof. It is immaterial if it is another guest who makes the attack. If that was the case Walder could have just had Roose and his men murder the guests for his own plausible deniability.

Stevron was an honorable man, much better than his father,

Yeah, I agree with that.

he fought and died for the King he believed in.

If a son dies in war that doesn't mean you should slaughter the man he fought for, soldier or no.

Not really. His father decided that they would go with the Robb and Stevron, the dutiful son, had no choice but to follow Robb. At Riverrun he was one of two people, the other being Cat, who proposed peace.

"My lord father would urge caution," aged Ser Stevron said, with the weaselly smile of a Frey. "Wait, let these two kings play their game of thrones. When they are done fighting, we can bend our knees to the victor, or oppose him, as we choose. With Renly arming, likely Lord Tywin would welcome a truce . . . and the safe return of his son. Noble lords, allow me to go to him at Harrenhal and arrange good terms and ransoms . . . "

That is not to say that Stevron did not follow Robb to the best of his ability and did not like the Young Wolf but he was not there through his own volition.

If you still think the Freys were justified in their betrayal, look at their guilt. They hide the truth and tell lies about what happened, why else would they do that unless they were guilty? You might be thinking 'because the rest of the realm won't understand the circumstances,' but if they truly thought they did nothing wrong by murdering Robb Stark and his lords, then they would tell the truth and argued what you have just argued.

I'm sure many a government do some pretty shitty things that they can justify to themselves but are not willing to make public.

I'm not of the opinion that Walder did nothing wrong. I have previously said that it was morally wrong and the Freys cant complain when the Manderlys or others chose to get their own brand of vengeance against them.

But there is no set of laws in this period. Walder wanted justice and the only way to get vengeance was to strike now as Robb would soon be safe home in the North and Walder would almost certainly not live long enough to get another chance. It is also likely that getting back in the Crowns good graces was dependent on disposing of Robb.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

If he had bent the knee to the Lannisters/ Tyrells and joined their forces and fought Robb in battle then nobody would have a problem with what they did . By doing it the way they did it they made themselves a target of everybody in the North (except the Boltons) and most of the Riverlands .

Why would Tywin need them? He has the Reach, Stormlords and possily other Riverlords were ready to jump over.

Tywin could have chosen to make an example of both the Tullys and the Freys. He has plenty of loyal Westerland and Reach lords to reward.

He needed Roose and Walder to shorten the war. The domino affect of Robb dying means peace that much quicker. Roose has the option of going back home and holding strong for a winter, Walder doesnt as the Riverlands would easily fall.

[Frey Kings]

Robb the dishonorable Stark had what was coming to him. I was sympathetic of course at first, then I put on my critical thinking hat and realized he was a complete tool.

[Eddy of the Godswood]

Why would Tywin need them? He has the Reach, Stormlords and possily other Riverlords were ready to jump over.

He would have not only been glad to have him, he would have been overjoyed. The Freys could have closed the Twins, received Lannister reinforcements, and held the Twins, trapping Robb and his bannermen in the South.

He needed Roose and Walder to shorten the war.

That is true, if Robb truly had their full support he would have been winning the war.

The domino affect of Robb dying means peace that much quicker. Roose has the option of going back home and holding strong for a winter, Walder doesnt as the Riverlands would easily fall.

On the contrary, Walder has two castles and thousands of men. If Tywin's famous declaration that one man in the wall is worth ten below, then Tywin wouldn't have dared attempt to breach the bridge. Albeit he might have laid siege, in which case the other river lords could've just smashed Tywin's Army against the Twins.

[Frey Kings]

That is true, if Robb truly had their full support he would have been winning the war.

I would rather have the Tyrells than 100% devotion from the Freys and Boltons.

[Sullen]

That is true, if Robb truly had their full support he would have been winning the war.

He would have not been winning, he would have stood a chance.

Once the Tyrells jumped in, Robb's chances of winning went to down to good to extremely thin, the Freys deserting him lowered those chances to practically impossible.

[Eddy of the Godswood]

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[thelittledragonthatcould]

He would have not only been glad to have him, he would have been overjoyed. The Freys could have closed the Twins, received Lannister reinforcements, and held the Twins, trapping Robb and his bannermen in the South.

That is more than possible. It is also possible the Tywin and his 70k army might have wanted to make an example of the Riverlord who had caused him more pain in both the Westerlands and Riverlands than any other Riverlord.

Walder would not know, but he's unlikely to want to tempt fate too much.

Walder was motivated on three fronts

• Vengeance for Robbs broken promise
• Preservation from the vastly superior Crown army
• Reward, from his son(really Genna) getting Riverrun

That is true, if Robb truly had their full support he would have been winning the war.

Not quite. He many have hung onto the North but the Riverlands was forefit as soon the Tyrells joined him.

On the contrary, Walder has two castles and thousands of men. If Tywin's famous declaration that one man in the wall is worth ten below, then Tywin wouldn't have dared attempt to breach the bridge. Albeit he might have laid siege, in which case the other river lords could've just smashed Tywin's Army against the Twins.

There would have been other Rivrlords, such as the Brackens, who would have jumped ship first.

Once Robb had fled North Riverlords would have jumped ship with the promise of pardons and some of their neighbours lands while that 60k Reach army would welcome some new lands.

[Blackfish Tully]

Why would Tywin need them? He has the Reach, Stormlords and possily other Riverlords were ready to jump over.

Tywin could have chosen to make an example of both the Tullys and the Freys. He has plenty of loyal Westerland and Reach lords to reward.

He needed Roose and Walder to shorten the war. The domino affect of Robb dying means peace that much quicker. Roose has the option of going back home and holding strong for a winter, Walder doesnt as the Riverlands would easily fall.

When the Bracken's bent the knee Tywin had no problem with accepting them with open arms , why would it be any different for the Freys? Tywin would not gone out his way to punish the Freys if they bent the knee . He would have loved having them back in the King's peace .

[Eddy of the Godswood]

The might of the Reach hasn't done anything, and I have no idea where you got those numbers from. Even the Gardener and Lannister combined armies was only fifty five thousand. And that was before their armies had gotten into any battles. The Tyrells lost a bit of their army when Stannis attached after Renly's death. Additionally, multiple Marcher Lord houses have joined Stannis, including the Florents and all their lieges.

With the coming winter, the southern army would have been hard pressed to lay siege against any castles or forts in temperatures way less than what they've experienced. Storm's End Siege was unsuccessful, lasted two years against a reduced garrison, was in the South, and had unbroken supply trains which would be nigh on impossible through rivers and cold.

If the riverlords had any ounce of faith, they would have remained sworn to Robb until nigh upon the bitter end, like the Blackwoods.

[thelittledragonthatcould]

When the Bracken's bent the knee Tywin had no problem with accepting them with open arms , why would it be any different for the Freys? Tywin would not gone out his way to punish the Freys if they bent the knee . He would have loved having them back in the King's peace .

The Brackens or any other Riverlords were not part of Robbs military campaign in the West 'paying the Lannisters back in kind'.

The Freys gave Robb 1,000 cavalry out of his 6,000 army, there was likely more Freys than any single Northern House.

And then there is allowing Robb across, which resulted in Jaime being captured and prolonging the war. Maybe Tywin and the Westerland Lords would want revenge, maybe they wouldn't. Would you really want to take that chance?

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

There is no question that Walder has a legitimate grievance, but that's a far cry from having the right to massacre Robb and many bannerman that didn't have much to do with Robb's indiscretions. And the "Guest Right" is a sacred tradition, the violation of which is incredibly serious.

Did he break it though?

Is it pointed out whether he ever stands in that chapter?

Why? you ask. If i recall he mentions something between his legs that is working. My theory is that he has a sword laid out on his lap, between both legs. Unseen but negating guest right. Akin to when you make a promise but have your fingers crossed behind your back

[The Santa of House Claus]

Did he break it though?

Is it pointed out whether he ever stands in that chapter?

Why? you ask. If i recall he mentions something between his legs that is working. My theory is that he has a sword laid out on his lap, between both legs. Unseen but negating guest right. Akin to when you make a promise but have your fingers crossed behind your back

Really, you're going to claim that Walder "had his fingered" crossed and that negates Guest Right? What, does all this take place on a play ground? And what evidence is there that sitting on a sword or anything for that matter counter acts Guest Right after the guests have eated your bread and salt?

You sir are a very good troll because you actually keep argueing your ludicris idea instead of just posting and letting everyone else go at it.

[Seaworth'sShipmate]

Idk I like Walder.

He loves the finer things in life and gave the Starks what they deserved

[James of the Blackwater]

Walder Frey is a POS and should not have broken guest right......Rob however should of kept it in his pants when he saw Jeyne Westerling...well I guess at 16 that was probably a "hard" thing to do(yes pun intended)...but he should of hit it and quit it like any normal 16 year old would do....oh Robb why did you have to be Ned's son

[Ser Brandon Badwater]

Really, you're going to claim that Walder "had his fingered" crossed and that negates Guest Right? What, does all this take place on a play ground? And what evidence is there that sitting on a sword or anything for that matter counter acts Guest Right after the guests have eated your bread and salt?

You sir are a very good troll because you actually keep argueing your ludicris idea instead of just posting and letting everyone else go at it.

Who is ludicris ? Is that Ludacris`s ludicrous brother?

[The Santa of House Claus]

Who is ludicris ? Is that Ludacris`s ludicrous brother?

Why yes he is, but it is a very tense relationship. They grew apart as teenagers after their parents had a rocky divorce. They don't see each other much now, living on opposite sides of the country. Ludicrous is a mild mannered english teacher living in Maine. While Ludacris has gone on to be a rather successful rapper, though his acting, eh. He now hails from Atlanta, where I am from which may explain my simple typo.

[marsyao]

When the Bracken's bent the knee Tywin had no problem with accepting them with open arms , why would it be any different for the Freys? Tywin would not gone out his way to punish the Freys if they bent the knee . He would have loved having them back in the King's peace .

Because Frey's daughter was promise to Robb as Queen

[Eddy of the Godswood]

The Queen of Thorns wasn't supposed to marry Mace, but he fell in love and chose her. I don't see Mace Tyrell and half of his lords dead.

[The Santa of House Claus]

The Queen of Thorns wasn't supposed to marry Mace, but he fell in love and chose her. I don't see Mace Tyrell and half of his lords dead.

You mean Mace's father. Mace is her son.