Greece II or: How I learned to stop worrying and love the euro.

[Iskaral Pust]

Looks like a no vote. Which is at least consistent with electing Syriza in the first place.

[ummester]

Glad they went No, for their sake.

But at the same time it just proves that in this debt fueled global economy, you might as well just rack up the debt and refuse to pay it off. Whole financial system seems a bit of a ridiculous waste of time to me - banks abuse debt, bail em out. Countries abuse debt, let em refuse to pay. And what is all the debt based on anyway? Productivity that may or may not come to pass in a future that seems more uncertain by the minute. Meh, it's demographics effecting the West, not economics - always has been.

[Guest]

Yup. But this will not stop the French, they will buckle and bend as much as is required.

This very much sounds like a line from Stephenson's Baroque Cycle.

[Arakan]

Imagine what happens if there is yet more failed "solidarity" (if the rather illegal and dubious taking on of other countries debts can be called that in the first place). These guys will have the majority in the next elections then. That's part of the high political price the people making these decisions want to avoid, but in most countries it's just that the governments have promised not to shoulder any larger burden vis-a-vis Greece without significant guarantees and/or control. Doing so would cost their parties dearly.

Another debt cut (which will come) is basically stealing from all the other European taxpayers at this stage. Some of the most outrageous voices about what game Greece is playing come from Eastern European countries, countries which 15/20 years ago were much poorer than Greece but which - through committment, hard work and making tough decisions - wanted to build better societies and suceeded.

With the EU membership in 1981, and with the Eurozone membership 1999, Greece got a golden opporturnity. The way Syriza painted the EU as somekind of evil is frankly disgusting and shows how short the memory span of most societies is, let alone individuals.

Anyway, I am prepared to lose my share in the debt cut as European tax payer. But one thing is for sure: the solidarity with Greece from the European people will reach an absolute low point.

[Guest]

That's quite arguable if one subscribes to textbook economics. Austerity in 2010 was a choice, and Greece's economy would almost certainly be larger with more revenues today had the leadership gone a different route.

[Shryke]

That's quite arguable if one subscribes to textbook economics. Austerity in 2010 was a choice, and Greece's economy would almost certainly be larger with more revenues today had the leadership gone a different route.

And of course the rest of the eurozone profited off of Greece as well.

That's why they let them in after all, despite all the signs everyone noticed that everything they were saying was bullshit.

[kuenjato]

Another debt cut (which will come) is basically stealing from all the other European taxpayers at this stage. Some of the most outrageous voices about what game Greece is playing come from Eastern European countries, countries which 15/20 years ago were much poorer than Greece but which - through committment, hard work and making tough decisions - wanted to build better societies and suceeded.

With the EU membership in 1981, and with the Eurozone membership 1999, Greece got a golden opporturnity. The way Syriza painted the EU as somekind of evil is frankly disgusting and shows how short the memory span of most societies is, let alone individuals.

Anyway, I am prepared to lose my share in the debt cut as European tax payer. But one thing is for sure: the solidarity with Greece from the European people will reach an absolute low point.

Yeah, because the economic atmosphere 15/20 years ago--1995/2000-- was exactly the same as it is today, right? Love the Calvinist "bootstraps" argument in full force, hard work and sacrifice will get you through, oops, hows about that 30% unemployment and dismantling of the public sector in order to maintain profits on a frankly stupid, predatory investment scheme in a predictably shaky economy. But wait, risk isn't a legitimate concept for investment anymore, is it? Wasn't it you who stated earlier that profits are privatized and losses are socialized?

Keep going, though. It's interesting and illuminating to see a full-on German nationalist sentiment in this thread.