Who conceived of the Red Wedding?

[Lady Blackmont]

I'd say Tywin.  There was some obvious collusion between him and the Westerlings to break the Stark-Frey alliance.  Roose was probably Tywin's creature from the start.  Convincing an offended Walder Frey to join them was probably pretty easy.

I disagree, why would Roose and Tywin fight on the Green Fork, and why did Tywin have a master plan to crush the army of an ally? Roose faught nobly with Eddard, something I'd like to read about.

[Eli Stark]

Maybe Tywin, knowing that Bolton would follow him as resident lord of Harrenhall, left Roose a note in the books.  Could explain why Roose burns a book after reading it.  Personally, I think the book burning related to some sort of cypher for coded or otherwise hidden messages going back and forth between Roose and the Frey's.

 

I do agree though that Roose and Lame Lothar Frey would have done most of the planning and would only act on it after receiving some sort of assurances from Tywin.

[The Commentator]

Lame Lothar and Roose Bolton planned the wedding.  Walder and Tywin signed off on it. 

 

Roose was a traitor from the start.  When Jaime fell into his hands at Harrenhal, he saw the opportunity for career advancement.  He knew Walder was bitter about Robb's betrayal.  He served as the go-between for Walder and Tywin.

[spoon89]

I disagree, why would Roose and Tywin fight on the Green Fork, and why did Tywin have a master plan to crush the army of an ally? Roose faught nobly with Eddard, something I'd like to read about.

 

In the beginning of the war in the battles that Roose has solo command, he uses the bannermen and troops that are historically very loyal the Stark family in risky positions, while preserving his own troops in somewhat safer positions. After the news of the loss of the North and Robbs marriage, he sends a force of same type (loyal to Stark) to attack Duskendale in Robs name and then uses more loyal Stark bannermen to rear guard his own troops crossing the ford, against the Mountains ambush.

 

Look at the three major battles that were under his solo command. The names of those captured and killed are indicators of the house that were leading there troops when major losses of men occurred.

 

Greenfork ~5,000 killed including Halys Hornwood and Medger Cerwyn. Harrion Karstark and Ser Wylis Manderly captured.

Dusken Dale ~3,000 killed including Ser Helman Tallhart. Robett Glover and Harrion Karstark captured.

Fords of the Trident ~2000 killed, captured or pushed into the river, mostly of Houses Norrey, Locke, Manderly, and Burley. Wylis Manderly captured again.

[marsyao]

The Red Wedding was clearly a conspiracy between Tywin Lannister, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton -- but whose idea was it? Who approached whom to suggest it?

 

Is it revealed in the text and I just missed it? 

 

It would seem that Roose Bolton approached Walder Frey with the idea after Winterfell was lost, and the Freys and Karstarks left, and then they made a deal with Tywin...

 

Thoughts? :)

 

Because the violation of guest right is such a taboo in the Westero, it only could be Walder Frey. Tywin wanted Robb dead, and he demanded Walder Frey to do that, but he hardly would care how Walder Frey actually accomplish the deed, Roose Bolton had nothing on Walder Frey, he certainly was not strong enough to force Walder Frey to do anything

[marsyao]

Lame Lothar and Roose Bolton planned the wedding.  Walder and Tywin signed off on it. 

 

Roose was a traitor from the start.  When Jaime fell into his hands at Harrenhal, he saw the opportunity for career advancement.  He knew Walder was bitter about Robb's betrayal.  He served as the go-between for Walder and Tywin.

 

I do not believe Roose was a traitor from the start, he only started looking for the "second option" when the tide of the war started against Robb and his cause, Roose was a man who only cared the interest of his own house, whether he remained loyal to anyone, Robb or Tywin, depended on whether this loyalty is in the interest of himself

[Ultima II]

Roose Bolton and Lame Lothar were the architects of the Red Wedding, but the power behind it came from Walder Frey, and ultimately, from Lord Tywin Lannister.  I don't think Tywin had a hand in the planning, but he was certainly kept abreast of such an important operation.  In other words, Roose, all of the Freys, Jaime, and Tywin knew that Robb was about to get killed.  Jaime had to have known when he left Harrenhal.  Roose committed to the Lannisters when he released Jaime.  Robb will find out eventually that he released Jaime, and his head would roll just like Karstark's.  He had to betray Robb after he released Jaime.  Even Jaime knew it.  Hence, the reason why Roose sent his regards to Jaime after the killing blow to Robb.

 

Roose and Lothar do not have the power to order the Frey soldiers to do what they did.  That had to come from Lord Walder.  And Lord Walder would not have done anything like the RW without making sure first that it was legal.  Tywin's approval made it legal.  Joffrey may have signed off on it as well, to make the act legit. 

[The Broke Howard Hughes]

The Red Wedding reeks of Tywin Lannister. Roose and Walder would have never did it otherwise. My guess is Tywin promised them the world but kept his hands off it enough to plead innocence when the shoe drops. He was surely going to throw them under the bus when he had stability in the realm again, which is why he gave them the titles they wanted almost immediately but didn't lift a finger to help them actually gain control. Roose is smart enough to know he's being used but figured he could take hostages to keep control but when nobody brings him hostages when he asks for them and Tywin dies he knows he's in trouble. Even Theon sees the guy is scared. Walder is seemingly too dumb to realize he isn't very useful. He doesn't even get wardenship, just the castle, the guy is a fool. Yep, Tywin planned this perfectly up until the point in which he got himself murdered. Now it's possible his family loses the Rock. Ironic.

[Archmaester Drew]

Thanks everyone!  :cheers:

 

Here is a telling quote:

 

Both parties left Harrenhal the same morning, beneath a cold grey sky that promised rain. Ser Aenys Frey had marched three days before, striking northeast for the kingsroad. Bolton meant to follow him. "The Trident is in flood," he told Jaime. "Even at the ruby ford, the crossing will be difficult. You will give my warm regards to your father?"

"So long as you give mine to Robb Stark."

"That I shall."

 

Jamie VI, ASOS

 

:)

[Light a wight tonight]

If you can believe Tywin, he was negotiating for an assassination of Robb, but had nothing to do with the actual Red Wedding.  

[Victor227]

If you can believe Tywin, he was negotiating for an assassination of Robb, but had nothing to do with the actual Red Wedding.  

 

It's somewhat believable, if only for the reason that the only way to arrange something like the full Red Wedding would have been via letter, and Tywin putting his seal on anything related to the Red Wedding would have been providing Walder Frey or Roose Bolton with unparalleled blackmail material. The safest option would be to operate with codes and vague terms, which we see Walder Frey do in his letter to King's Landing after it goes down ("Roslin caught a trout", wolfskins, etc...). As well, Tyrion seems pretty convinced right off the bat that the Red Wedding was just the sort of thing Walder Frey would think of, when he's already at least internally called out Tywin on actions like Ellia's death.

 

Is Tywin -above- ordering a Red Wedding? No, if he thought he could get away with it, and he really hated the intended victims, you can bet he'd do it. But just like the case of Ellia, he'd never admit that sort of pettiness to anyone. It's one thing to give that kind of order in private to dogs like Lorch and Gregor, but it's entirely another to commit to writing and deliver it to the likes of Walder Frey or Roose Bolton.