The implications of the Paris attacks

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

What's the point of threatening 'war without mercy' but then carrying on with the surgical air strikes BS? Either we go to war with Islamic extremism with the intention of wiping them from the face of the Earth or we do everything we can to isolate ourselves from that fucked up region including stopping millions of fighting age male adults migrating to our countries. What we're doing at the moment is obviously not working.

Hayyoth,

So, it's genocide of everyone in Syria or GTFO?  Here I thought the point of a "total war" against the Daesh is to destroy the Daesh's capacity to fight.  Taking away the Daesh's source of recruiting seems, to me, to be a big part of that goal.  If we go flattening Muslim majority cities will more or less extremists be encouraged to join the Daesh's cause?

[Hayyoth]

That's impossible ! White Christians live here yet do none of the above ! Something's fishy here.

We've already established on this thread that the real cause of the Jihadi is Jesus and white Christian people.

[Malik Ambar]

 You're killing me now. 

Hey, I ain't a fan of our establishment either... who is? 

Apparently Hafiz Sayid and Dawood Ibrahim were heard saying nice things about the Pakistani Army's iron fist control over things.

But , I've seen enough of the world now to know that the people aren't responsible for anything. And I genuinely believe that over the next decade there will be a substantial change in at least the perceptions about each other due to efforts people themselves are taking to reach out to each other.Not that the powers that be on either side aren't trying to fuck things up. Over here at least there is accountability, but on your side it's like they're a complete separate organism who doesn't care about progress between our relationships at all (for obvious reasons they don't ).

But like I said, we all have our demons *walks away in shame as Prem Ratan Dhan Payo's promo plays in the background*

[Hayyoth]

Hayyoth,

So, it's genocide of everyone in Syria or GTFO?  Here I thought the point of a "total war" against the Daesh is to destry the Daesh's capacity to fight.  Taking away the Daesh's source of recruiting seem, to me, to be a big part of that goal.  If we go flattening Muslim majority cities will more or less extremists be encouraged to join the Daesh's cause?

Was the part of my post where I wrote we couldn't commit total war in Syria because it would mean genocide hard to comprehend? I'm against war in the middle east, because to pursue it effectively would mean swimming up to our necks in the blood of, mostly, innocent people. The question is what's the alternative? What we're doing now isn't working, in fact it's demonstrably making things worse.

[Malik Ambar]

We've already established on this thread that the real cause of the Jihadi is Jesus and white Christian people.

Nobody's done that. You are the one who's spouting some bullshit argument everybody's ignoring because it's basically worse than what those 12 year olds who somehow got connection to the Internet would have produced. Of course there are efforts to be made to be integrated dumb ass, but you are conveniently ignoring that those efforts are already being made, and that said efforts have to be made on both sides.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Hayyoth,

Could you please describe what you mean by "total war" in Syria and how such a campaign in an area with scare water and other resources that is already in ruins will not equate to Genocide?

[Hayyoth]

Nobody's done that. You are the one who's spouting some bullshit argument everybody's ignoring because it's basically worse than what those 12 year olds who somehow got connection to the Internet would have produced. Of course there are efforts to be made to be integrated dumb ass, but you are conveniently ignoring that those efforts are already being made, and that said efforts have to be made on both sides.

Who is this 'other side'? The President of the Republic of France has declared war on the Islamic State, war means you kill your enemy relentlessly until they accept terms and surrender, except we know Daesh will do neither so if he's serious Hollande will have to kill every last one of them. But we all know he isn't serious.

[McCracken]

Reading these threads is so depressing.  I'm sick of the blatant racism.  Yes it is racism to connect refugees or muslims in general with the Paris attacks.

I'm going to use some of the boarders logic here to make a different proposal.

We need to ban all men coming to our countries.  And banish the ones that are already here.  You see I've noticed that 99% of terrorists are men.  So obviously the problem is with men.  In fact most other forms of violence are caused by men too.  If you look at violent crimes such as murder and rape again nearly always men.  So we obviously need to get rid of all men before its too late and they murder and rape us all.  Makes perfect sense.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

 

Who is this 'other side'? The President of the Republic of France has declared war on the Islamic State, war means you kill your enemy relentlessly until they accept terms and surrender, except we know Daesh will do neither so if he's serious Hollande will have to kill every last one of them. But we all know he isn't serious.

Hayyoth,

So, you really are rooting for the French State to attempt Genocide?

[Hayyoth]

Hayyoth,

Could you please describe what you mean by "total war" in Syria and how such a campaign in an area with scare water and other resources that is already in ruins will not equate to Genocide?

Could you please explain how the status quo will stop attacks on westerners by Islamic extremists? If you're advocating military action to destroy Daesh then do so, and explain the inevitable consequence of an effective military campaign.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Hayyoth,

Could you please explain how the status quo will stop attacks on westerners by Islamic extremists? If you're advocating military action to destroy Daesh then do so, and explain the inevitable consequence of an effective military campaign.

So, in your opinion its Genocide or GTFO?

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

Hayyoth

I think the position is that the attacks must be countered with tolerance and inclusivity. And if that doesn't stop the attacks, just try harder, and longer. So in other words, the deaths of innocents in Europe are an unfortunate but unavoidable part of the transition to eventual Utopia.

In short, if you can't stop the attacks, so be it. As long as you don't endanger the cause of tolerance and multiculturalism.

 

 

[Hayyoth]

Yes it is racism to connect refugees or muslims in general with the Paris attacks.

No it's a fact that one of the mass murderers was a Syrian refugee, you can read all about it in the link to the New York Times I provided in a previous post.

So, you really are rooting for the French State to attempt Genocide?

I'm against military adventures in the middle east, I'm in favor of politicians not lying to the public and pretending to do something they have absolutely no intention of doing. Are you in favor of military attacks on Daesh Scott?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Hayyoth,

I'm in favor of carefully considered and carefully executed attacks that take every effort to avoid killing people who aren't targets to show... we aren't worse than the Daesh.

[McCracken]

Hayyoth please explain how the status quoe will stop the murder of civilians by men?

 

I think the position is that the murders must be countered with tolerance and inclusivity. And if that doesn't stop the murders, just try harder, and longer. So in other words, the deaths of innocents are an unfortunate but unavoidable part of the transition to the eventual Utopia where men can live peacefully with women.

In short, if you can't stop the murders, so be it. As long as you don't endanger the cause of tolerance towards men.

[Free Northman Reborn]

There are competing visions of the future at play here. Some see a kind of peaceful, seamlessly integrated multicultural future Europe.

I see Western Europe eventually descending into a Balkanized state of affairs, as increasingly hostile communities within each country descend into greater and greater conflict with one another. And this is what the policymakers should prevent today, before it becomes inevitable tomorrow.

I guess only time will tell which vision is more realistic. I guess we are talking about opposing visions of human nature. One drawing lessons from history. The other dreaming idealistic dreams about the future.

[Hayyoth]

Hayyoth

I think the position is that the attacks must be countered with tolerance and inclusivity. And if that doesn't stop the attacks, just try harder, and longer. So in other words, the deaths of innocents in Europe are an unfortunate but unavoidable part of the transition to eventual Utopia.

In short, if you can't stop the attacks, so be it. As long as you don't endanger the cause of tolerance and multiculturalism.

 

 

Don't forget the hashtag campaign and wearing a shirt with the Eiffel Tower peace sign on it. Those Islamic State guys won't know what's hit em.

[CBeck113]

Reading these threads is so depressing.  I'm sick of the blatant racism.  Yes it is racism to connect refugees or muslims in general with the Paris attacks.

I'm going to use some of the boarders logic here to make a different proposal.

We need to ban all men coming to our countries.  And banish the ones that are already here.  You see I've noticed that 99% of terrorists are men.  So obviously the problem is with men.  In fact most other forms of violence are caused by men too.  If you look at violent crimes such as murder and rape again nearly always men.  So we obviously need to get rid of all men before its too late and they murder and rape us all.  Makes perfect sense.

Nope, that's racist against women, so we need to ban them as well.

It's scary in a world with such amazing tools for communication and information so many people rely on their FB feed to read the truth...although the big news sites are completely biased and can't be trusted either.  Too many people just fail to critically analyze the information they're being fed (actually looking is too much work).  I told my wife as the story unfolded (we were watching France - Germany on TV) that there would be cries to block the boarders because the refugees would be blamed.  Sometimes it sucks being right.  One person used the situation to get into Europe, and yet we need to do more against this danger trying to get into Europe?!?  Thousands are fleeing this violence, and that's the answer of the common folk.  Humans are so flawed, and when you want to use money for the desparately needed improvement in the education systems, the answer is "we need to protect ourselves".  The only thing these people need to protect themselves from is their own ignorance, along with the rest of us.

Money and religion suck in the wrong hands, just like guns.  /rant off

[Hayyoth]

Hayyoth,

I'm in favor of carefully considered and carefully executed attacks that take every effort to avoid killing people who aren't targets to show... we aren't worse than the Daesh.

So you want war but with all the nasty problematic bits removed? We'll call this war lite, the low fat low carb version. So in your opinion what we've been doing up to now, which is what you advocate we continue doing, has been a resounding success?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Hayyoth, FNR,

So, is Genocide just a sad consequence of having to take the fight to the Daesh?