The implications of the Paris attacks

[Theda Baratheon]

 @peterbound

someone literally called for making the ME "uninhabitable" earlier in thread. 

And long enough for what? 

[OnionAhaiReborn]

 

 

This hasn't worked.

 

COIN ops and arming the locals is a dangerous game at best (although coin can work if you give it time).

 

I had the opportunity to be at one of the training bases while I was over there, and I'm not going to claim I was knee deep in training them, but from what I saw, I wasn't impressed. Nor is arming future enemies a good strategy (as we've seen in the past)

The Kurds have actually been extremely successful in fighting ISIS, and are perhaps the group we can be most certain will not turn around and become enemies of the US in the future. They already govern autonomous regions of Iraq and Syria, and are largely moderate and secular, in Rojava (Syria) even further left than that.

The problem is that they aren't going to fight far out of Kurdish regions.

[TheRevanchist]

Probably posted before, but anyway... So far, the best article I have found on ISIS. It is very long though, but still it is a great reading:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[Fragile Bird]

 @peterbound

someone literally called for making the ME "uninhabitable" earlier in thread. 

And long enough for what? 

I have a smart, reasonable, thoughtful friend, a champion of civil rights and equality, who thinks the eastern end of the Mediterranean should be extended by removing large parts of the ME off the face of the earth with the use of several nuclear bombs.

He is quite aware of the fact that this is the attitude groups like the IS want to cultivate, he just thinks we should give them what they want.  Since he believes too much harm in the world has been done by people who believe in 'imaginary friends' (ie God), he feels they should be re-united with their God.

And yes, he knows I'm one of those religious persons, but I think he's sceptical about that. 

[Altherion]

The only way to defeat ISIL is to cut it off from their supporters and sympathizers, and there are many actions that need to get done to ensure that occurs. Some of them we are finally doing, like bombing their oil trucks so they no longer have a valuable good to sell off to rich financiers.

Bombing their oil trucks is a good start, although it would be much more efficient to spare the infrastructure and simply agree that nobody is allowed to buy their oil. However, this does not address what is probably a much larger source of support: our so-called allies in the Middle East. NATO member Turkey bombs the Syrian and Iraqi Kurds every time the latter look like they're about to start winning. The Saudis and Qataris at the very least provide private money purportedly for "humanitarian aid" and there have been accusations of more extensive assistance. Even the US itself gives money and materiel to "moderate rebels" who are then quite likely to promptly turn it over to the radicals.

In other words, the principle is correct: ISIS would be nothing without people who are giving them massive amounts of money. I doubt they have the manufacturing capacity to build an automatic weapon, let alone the kinds of vehicles they've demonstrated so far. However, at the moment there is no shortage of well-established groups throwing resources at them.

[Altherion]

The only way to defeat ISIL is to cut it off from their supporters and sympathizers, and there are many actions that need to get done to ensure that occurs. Some of them we are finally doing, like bombing their oil trucks so they no longer have a valuable good to sell off to rich financiers.

Bombing their oil trucks is a good start, although it would be much more efficient to spare the infrastructure and simply agree that nobody is allowed to buy their oil. However, this does not address what is probably a much larger source of support: our so-called allies in the Middle East. NATO member Turkey bombs the Syrian and Iraqi Kurds every time the latter look like they're about to start winning. The Saudis and Qataris at the very least provide private money purportedly for "humanitarian aid" and there have been accusations of more extensive assistance. Even the US itself gives money and materiel to "moderate rebels" who are then quite likely to promptly turn it over to the radicals.

In other words, the principle is correct: ISIS would be nothing without people who are giving them massive amounts of money. I doubt they have the manufacturing capacity to build an automatic weapon, let alone the kinds of vehicles they've demonstrated so far. However, at the moment there is no shortage of well-established groups throwing resources at them.

[peterbound]

Fairly sure calling for the leveling of Raqqa is a call for genocide given last estimates of population there was around 400k.

That number keeps jumping up.

Not sure if you know how war, at least modern warfare, is practiced. They aren't dropping nukes.

There will be collateral, yes. But war has been started by the other side. Unfortunately it's the innocent that suffer.

Saying that. Do you think the French that hated the occupation were pissed when we bombed and liberated? Or the non nazi Germans? From what I've read it's not the best place to be at the moment even without an onslaught.

This will be over soon, and hopefully it will result in a better outcome.

What would you rather have done? Nothing? Let Isis grow. Continue to terrorize the people that live their. The raping the killing? I'm not sure you are taking the right side in this fight.

[Fragile Bird]

I see on CNBC that one of the ways the attack may have been planned was through the use of Playstation.  As gamers know, you can link up with other players and chat to each other as you play.  So a terrorist sets up a game and plans are made.  Nobody's security services seem to monitor gamer conversations.

They may also have used some of the apps now available that destroys you message after 5 or 10 seconds.  The message disappears before any monitoring picks it up.