Loras : The Valonqar

[Arya-Jon]

A lot of people think Jaime is the Valonqar. I personally believe that  Loras is more likely the Valonqar. My reasons are below

“Be that as it may. Lady Olenna was not about to let Joff harm her precious darling granddaughter, but unlike her son she also realized that under all his flowers and finery, Ser Loras is as hot-tempered as Jaime Lannister. Toss Joffrey, Margaery, and Loras in a pot, and you’ve got the makings for kingslayer stew. The old woman understood something else as well. Her son was determined to make Margaery a queen, and for that he needed a king… but he did not need Joffrey.” 

Why this mention of Kingslayer term by Petyr with Loras.There is another where Sansa is talking about Loras.

 Ser Loras is a Tyrell, Sansa reminded herself. That other knight was only a Toyne. His brothers had no armies, no way to avenge him but with swords. Yet the more she thought about it all, the more she wondered. Joff might restrain himself for a few turns, perhaps as long as a year, but soon or late he will show his claws, and when he does … The realm might have a second Kingslayer, and there would be war inside the city, as the men of the lion and the men of the rose made the gutters run red. 

Sansa was surprised Margaery did not see it too. 

Another one

Even Jaime who was once a Kingslayer himself agrees, “He’s me. I am speaking to myself, as I was, all cocksure arrogance and empty chivalry. This is what it does to you, to be too good too young.” Later Jaime comments that Loras, “Is proud and reckless and full of piss…” 

So here is a guy who is always being compared to a Kingslayer. Not once but thrice. Why is Martin doing that? Why is Martin telling us that Loras has the right attributes for the Kingslayer.

Among all of Margaery’s brothers, he is the youngest. Also in the Kingsguard he is the youngest brother. So he is the littlebrother of the Kingsguard. In the show he is Margaery’s younger brother. There is hardly any one else.

Another reason I think this cannot be Jamie is the use of the term “The Valonquar” . Not “your Valonqar” where valonquar means little brother. To me “the little brother” is a strong indication to a more universal organization like the Kingsguard. Though it doesnt hurt that Loras is the youngest of Marg’s brothers and among brothers is certainly the little brother.

And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wraphis hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

Also as the method of death is strangling as mentioned in the prophesy, it is certainly not the type of death Arya or Jamie like to dish out. And Jaime does not have two hands!

Cersei is very likely to provoke Loras the same way Aerys provoked Jamie. Even Cersei likes wildfire and is turning a bit mad. By any logic it simply cannot be Jamie. It would destroy the whole purpose of his redemption arc where he has finally begun to search for honor and has even named his horse honor. Further his honor involves searching for Arya and Sansa. That was his whole purpose. If GRRM wanted to turn in this direction he could easily have kept Jamie at Kings Landing where Jamie would have killed his sister to save the realm.

Some people argue that as Loras disappeared and is nearing death he is an unlikely candidate. However, the only person who has heard about this “injury” is Cersei from a person (Aurane Waters)  who betrayed her just a short while later and has has taken up piracy at the stepstones.

Further in the last chapter of ADWD , Kevan Lannister notes that, despite his injuries, Loras has been personally searching Dragonstone. This would seem rather difficult to do for someone who had sustained the grave injuries described by Waters.

Due to this and some other reasons people believe that the whole thing about Loras being gravely injured is a ploy.

There are lots of places where you would find these reasons.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Loras_Tyrell/Theories

http://asoiafuniversity.tumblr.com/post/47050250250/loras-tyrell-and-the-case-of-the-mysterious

Lannisters dont have many soldiers at Kings Landing (which is a big advantage in the trial for Tyrells) and I suspect Mace is plotting something. They had basically taken 2000 Lannister soldiers to Dragonstone. And they have not returned.

Summary

How Loras will return ,we do not know. But as most evidence points to him not being gravely injured (as he has searched all of Dragonstone despite being injured and Kevan does not consider him to be seriously injured) ,you would expect him to turn up at Kings Landing soon . And unlike Jaime he has two hands,so he can wrap his hands around Cersei’s pale neck as was prophesised . I do suspect Cersei may get Robert Strong to do some Tyrell murders, which may provide provocation.

And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

Notice his hands. Does Jaime have hands? His second hand is just a stump. And he has no control over his artificial hand. He can barely use it to hold a shield loosely. Plus so many mentions of Kingslayer are there with Loras (at least three or four times) .Sansa and Petyr are mentioning him as a starter of a war that will pit the Tyrells and Lannisters against each other Why would the author put these? I  find the idea of him killing cute and well behaved Tommen or Mycrellla unlikely. The person he will kill has to be Cersei. 

PS. I had posted this on Tumblr. But think this may be worthy of discussion here.

So what do you think the Tyrells are upto?  Could Loras be the Valonqar?

[Not a kneeler]

I do believe that Loras is a strong contender for the role of valonqar. The one thing your theory lacks is the motive and in the books, so far, no sufficient motive exists. Two things, however, if they come to pass, would be sufficient to push Loras to murder and that would be the death of either Margaery or Olenna orchestrated by Cersei. Not far-fetched at all.

So, yes. I buy the theory that Loras is the valonqar. Nice work on the foreshadowing.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I do believe that Loras is a strong contender for the role of valonqar. The one thing your theory lacks is the motive and in the books, so far, no sufficient motive exists. Two things, however, if they come to pass, would be sufficient to push Loras to murder and that would be the death of either Margaery or Olenna orchestrated by Cersei. Not far-fetched at all.

So, yes. I buy the theory that Loras is the valonqar. Nice work on the foreshadowing.

Cersei set up his sister Margery...

 

OP, I disagree on a simple basis.  I do not believe "the" indicates anyone outside of the aforementioned people in the prophecy.  The people mentioned are Cersei and Robert, as well as both of their sets of children.  So in my mind there are 3 candidates from Cersei's side, Jaime, Tyrion, and Tommen.  From Roberts side we have Stannis, and Edric.  Jaime would obviously be the most dramatic and given that Cersei and Jaime have both stated they would die together multiple times, as well as Jaime's transition to a better person make him an ideal candidate.  That being said, Martin has surprised us all before, but I would still argue for a little brother mentioned in the prophecy.  I would argue that if any little brother qualified the word would have been "A" not "the".

[Arya-Jon]

Cersei set up his sister Margery...

 

I would argue that if any little brother qualified the word would have been "A" not "the".

Well, but Martin used "the". Dont think its that easy  .There must be some reason he did not use . "A"..

the littlebrother among the queens brothers the littlebrother among the night's watch, the littlebrother among the Kingsguard. Seems to fit better.

And why exactly are there so many Kingslayer references in Loras's arc?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Well, but Martin used "the". Dont think its that easy  .There must be some reason he did not use . "A"..

the littlebrother among the queens brothers the littlebrother among the night's watch, the littlebrother among the Kingsguard. Seems to fit better.

And why exactly are there so many Kingslayer references in Loras's arc?

I'm not sure you understood my point, my argument is that he used "the" to indicate that the little brother was a little brother of someone already mentioned.  "A" little brother in my mind would allow for any little brother on earth.

Let me try an example.  James and Nick both died in a car crash, the little brother inherited everything.  This clearly refers to either Nick or James's little brother.  Now this, James and Nick both died in a car crash, a little brother inherited everything.  This is slightly more open, perhaps the little brother is now a nephew or a son.

[Arya-Jon]

I'm not sure you understood my point, my argument is that he used "the" to indicate that the little brother was a little brother of someone already mentioned. 

Yeah. That certainly is a possiblity.  So it may not necessarily be a universal organization. But it could be.  But again that does not rule out Loras. He is certainly the littlebrother among the tyrells for Cersei. he is the littlebrother among the Kingsguard for Cersei. .He is a littlebrother for Willas. Loras is someone who fits with both "A" and "the" very well.

Jamie may be a littebrother techinically, but she has never called him  that. I doubt anyone calls him the littlebrother among the Lannisters or the littlebrother among the Kignsguard. And he only has one hand. And The actor playing Jaime did say that he is on a redemption arc recently and that he would enjoy playin it. Now all the disgrace he got through Aerys killing, would he really repeat it by breaking his vows again? Brienne has supposedly taught him the meaning of honor.

I understand that you disagree here. It depends on how we envision the story to go. But the real question is with so many references to Kingslayer (4-5 right) with Loras, there is a high chance he will kill some ruling Lannister. Whether its King(Tommen) or queen who knows? (I just find the idea of him killing cute and nice Tommen unlikely)

 

[Good Guy Garlan]

Well, I think this is more plausible than Arya being the valonqar, at least.

[Arya-Jon]

Well, I think this is more plausible than Arya being the valonqar, at least.

Yeah. It is " wrap his hands about your pale ..". Unless there is some creepy faceless men ability and Arya suddenly grows a co*k. We did see Waif turning into Jaquen, even increasing in height. (Thankfully it was only in the show!)

 

[dornishdame]

Loras as the valonqar is an intriguing theory.  While Cersei has always been convinced it is Tyrion, I am not in agreement with her.  Although I have always tended towards Jaime, Loras is an intriguing candidate.  As has been pointed out, if anything happened to Margaery or another member of his family then it could happen.  We have already seen in his actions after Renly's death how far Loras is prepared to go amidst grief. 

Loras is also an interesting parallel with Jaime, and Jaime himself sees a younger version of himself in Loras in Feast.  I don't believe his injuries are as serious as Cersei has been informed.  And I was intrigued by the mention of Criston Cole by Jaime in a discussion with Loras in Feast.  Could Loras repeat Jaime's actions and become a second Kingslayer? Or repeat Criston's actions and become a second Kingmaker?

[dariopatke]

It could help if we draw a parallel from books and show if we suspect Cersei gets killed by the same person. Now the show hasnt included Valonqar when they were doing Maggy the Frog and it is most interesting part, why? When it happens, we will be like is he younger, he has brothers? And if someone mentions in season 6 how Cersei is older than Jaime, book readers will know that it is foreshadowing and ruins everything. So I came to conclusion that Valoqar is someone who we did not know is younger brother. If Tyrion, Tommen or Stannis were, why shouldnt they include that on the show?? Now I can think only of Loras (he is the only son and heir in show) and Jaime (younger than Cersei). Perhaps there are some more, so tell me if you know any other candidaeptes.

[Arya-Jon]

Loras as the valonqar is an intriguing theory.  While Cersei has always been convinced it is Tyrion, I am not in agreement with her.  Although I have always tended towards Jaime, Loras is an intriguing candidate.  As has been pointed out, if anything happened to Margaery or another member of his family then it could happen.  We have already seen in his actions after Renly's death how far Loras is prepared to go amidst grief.  

Could Loras repeat Jaime's actions and become a second Kingslayer? Or repeat Criston's actions and become a second Kingmaker?

Yeah. After Renly's death he certainly was enraged. Any one dies -be it Margaery/Olenna or even his brothers due to Cersei, it can get explosive.Thanks to you and not a kneeler for pointing it out.

Maybe it could be both. Aegon is still there.

 

[dornishdame]

Yeah. After Renly's death he certainly was enraged. Any one dies -be it Margaery/Olenna or even his brothers due to Cersei, it can get explosive.Thanks to you and not a kneeler for pointing it out.

Maybe it could be both. Aegon is still there.

Of course, we don't know what Renly's thought process was after he offered his assistance to Ned.  When did he decide to declare himself King Renly? When he left King's Landing? When he reached Highgarden? Was Loras a factor? Perhaps Loras was already, in some ways, a Kingmaker.  

Aegon is an interesting prospect.  With Varys trying his best to destroy the Tyrell-Lannister alliance, will the Tyrells ditch the Lannisters in favor of Aegon? And Loras remains on Dragonstone, apparently grievously injured (though I do not believe this to be the case) and therefore would not be in place in King's Landing to protect Tommen to the death. I am also intrigued by what exactly he has been doing on Dragonstone all this time - not having a Tyrell POV means that we are limited sometimes in viewing their actions and sensing some of their motivations. We should also remember that the Tyrells were among the most loyal families to the Targaryens during the last war.  It was only after the death of King Aerys, when Ned went south to lift the siege on Storm's End, that they submitted to King Robert's rule. 

[Arya-Jon]

Of course, we don't know what Renly's thought process was after he offered his assistance to Ned.  When did he decide to declare himself King Renly? When he left King's Landing? When he reached Highgarden? Was Loras a factor? Perhaps Loras was already, in some ways, a Kingmaker.  

 

Nice catch! i would argue that Loras has been a Kingmaker in a more direct way than Jaime has ever been. Yes Jaime killed Aerys and did not prevent Robert from taking the crown. Or he made kings in the context of giving birth to Kings (dont agree with this line of logic). But never has he actually convinced some one to pick up a crown and rule in a way Criston Cole convinced Aegon. The claim made in the princess and the queen is that Aegon was initially unwilling to stake his claim over Rhaenyra . But Criston convinced him by mentioning that "bastards are monstrous by nature and that Rhaenyra's sons were actually bastards by Strong". He further killed the member/s of the small council who supported Rhaenyras claim.

Similarly, Loras convinced Renly to take the crown (or so it seems) by convincing him that he is the only one who has the qualities a king should have and by putting the might of Highgarden behind him.

Though the way Jaime talked about Criston Cole in that quote, it did seem that at least one of Loras or Jaime would play a future Kingmaker role.

If Jaime survives Lady Stoneheart, he has a good chance of it for these reasons

1) The weirwood dream, where he feels sorrow and regret for being unable to protect Rhaegar's children. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/65116-jaimes-dream-brienne-uncat-and-everything-else/. So it is possible he may take special efforts for either Aegon or Jon

2) Brienne herself is a descendant of Dunk. So if Dunk was the companion and became a member of the Kingsguard of AegonV (egg), then it would make sense if Brienne becomes a member of the final King's kingsguard (who ever sits the iron throne in the very end). So if Jaime lasts long enough, I think he would be more connected with Brienne then Cersei, Brienne's journey seems to be connected to the Starks and especially the Stark sisters. It is possible he may convince a certain someone to make his claim or add his voice to the claim. Unlikely yes, but not impossible as this certain someone will certainly not make a claim on his own and without convincing

3) It seems Jaime has some big connection with the Stark sisters and therby to Jon.

 He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."

I think this was a Bran Greendream and the giant  is Robert Strong who has been animated by Qyburn using dark magic. Jaime is known to have a golden armor (mentioned many times in the text), and I doubt we would have any Martell guy having any big connection to Stark sisters, so the one with the golden armor must be Jamie , as it does seem he is keen to protect the Stark Sisters . Jaime seems to have been grouped with the hound (sandor), who has done more good than bad for the Stark sisters.  So maybe Jaime and Sandor would fight Robert Strong? It does seem to imply that Jaime would join up with the Starks initially to fulfill his pledge to Lady Catelyn, but later attracted by the fight Jon is involved in against the whitewalkers. (Think the inital handshake between Jon and Jaime in the show was a forshadowing of that)

4) The actor himself gave an interview to GQ France recently where he said that from 6th season onwards he would be in a redemption arc and he would enjoy doing that. 

On thing I find interesting about Jaime is that even if he does help the right candidate come to the throne, would he stop being a Kingslayer? Can he ever be redeemed? I hope he can, though I fear the answer is no.

[Trogdor Targaryen]

Cersei set up his sister Margery...

 

OP, I disagree on a simple basis.  I do not believe "the" indicates anyone outside of the aforementioned people in the prophecy.  The people mentioned are Cersei and Robert, as well as both of their sets of children.  So in my mind there are 3 candidates from Cersei's side, Jaime, Tyrion, and Tommen.  From Roberts side we have Stannis, and Edric.  Jaime would obviously be the most dramatic and given that Cersei and Jaime have both stated they would die together multiple times, as well as Jaime's transition to a better person make him an ideal candidate.  That being said, Martin has surprised us all before, but I would still argue for a little brother mentioned in the prophecy.  I would argue that if any little brother qualified the word would have been "A" not "the".

If, suppose, Margaery is the younger more beautiful queen, then she is also mentioned in the prophecy and hers are considerable candidates for valonqar

[dornishdame]

 

Nice catch! i would argue that Loras has been a Kingmaker in a more direct way than Jaime has ever been. Yes Jaime killed Aerys and did not prevent Robert from taking the crown. Or he made kings in the context of giving birth to Kings (dont agree with this line of logic). But never has he actually convinced some one to pick up a crown and rule in a way Criston Cole convinced Aegon. The claim made in the princess and the queen is that Aegon was initially unwilling to stake his claim over Rhaenyra . But Criston convinced him by mentioning that "bastards are monstrous by nature and that Rhaenyra's sons were actually bastards by Strong". He further killed the member/s of the small council who supported Rhaenyras claim.

Similarly, Loras convinced Renly to take the crown (or so it seems) by convincing him that he is the only one who has the qualities a king should have and by putting the might of Highgarden behind him.

Though the way Jaime talked about Criston Cole in that quote, it did seem that at least one of Loras or Jaime would play a future Kingmaker role.

If Jaime survives Lady Stoneheart, he has a good chance of it for these reasons

1) The weirwood dream, where he feels sorrow and regret for being unable to protect Rhaegar's children. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/65116-jaimes-dream-brienne-uncat-and-everything-else/. So it is possible he may take special efforts for either Aegon or Jon

2) Brienne herself is a descendant of Dunk. So if Dunk was the companion and became a member of the Kingsguard of AegonV (egg), then it would make sense if Brienne becomes a member of the final King's kingsguard (who ever sits the iron throne in the very end). So if Jaime lasts long enough, I think he would be more connected with Brienne then Cersei, Brienne's journey seems to be connected to the Starks and especially the Stark sisters. It is possible he may convince a certain someone to make his claim or add his voice to the claim. Unlikely yes, but not impossible as this certain someone will certainly not make a claim on his own and without convincing

3) It seems Jaime has some big connection with the Stark sisters and therby to Jon.

I think this was a Bran Greendream and the giant  is Robert Strong who has been animated by Qyburn using dark magic. Jaime is known to have a golden armor (mentioned many times in the text), and I doubt we would have any Martell guy having any big connection to Stark sisters, so the one with the golden armor must be Jamie , as it does seem he is keen to protect the Stark Sisters . Jaime seems to have been grouped with the hound (sandor), who has done more good than bad for the Stark sisters.  So maybe Jaime and Sandor would fight Robert Strong? It does seem to imply that Jaime would join up with the Starks initially to fulfill his pledge to Lady Catelyn, but later attracted by the fight Jon is involved in against the whitewalkers. (Think the inital handshake between Jon and Jaime in the show was a forshadowing of that)

4) The actor himself gave an interview to GQ France recently where he said that from 6th season onwards he would be in a redemption arc and he would enjoy doing that. 

On thing I find interesting about Jaime is that even if he does help the right candidate come to the throne, would he stop being a Kingslayer? Can he ever be redeemed? I hope he can, though I fear the answer is no.

I think that from Feast (perhaps even Storm) onwards, Jaime is at the beginnings of a redemptive arc - even if he doesn't quite realize it himself. In spite of the Kingslayer image he has lived inside ever since he killed Aerys, it is clear from the dream you mention, which takes place in Storm, that he feels guilt over his unfulfilled promise to Rhaegar to protect his wife and children.  In Jon XI in Dance, Jon takes Val to meet Selyse, and both Shireen and Patchface are present - 

"The crow, the crow" Patchface, cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

The reference to 'crows' (which are black) and the 'white as snow' makes me think of the link between the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard. After all, Visenya Targaryen modeled the Kingsguard vows on those of the Night's Watch. This line can be construed as yet another link between Jon and Kingship - and I think to an extent it is - but it can also be seen as foreshadowing that Jaime could potentially join the Night's Watch and/or protect Jon as a Kingsguard (officially or unofficially).  

Jaime, in Feast, does try and fulfill his vow to Catelyn as well by sending Brienne after Sansa to find and protect her. This and his contemplation on Arthur Dayne and the previous Kingsguard members shows that he does have regrets about how things have turned out.  Of course, Jaime was still very young when he killed Aerys, and I wonder if at the time he decided that if he could not be famous (as Arthur Dayne was) then he could at least be infamous.  And it is not until he has time to sit and think - away from Cersei - in captivity that Jaime truly has a chance to assess where life has taken him. 

Perhaps it is this opportunity for self-reflection Jaime's had that reveals to him just how alike he and Loras are.  And he sees the potential - as Littlefinger does - for Loras to become a second Kingslayer.   

[Butterfreak]

I think the valonqar being anyone but Jaime would lessen the impact of the prophecy and wouldn't fit into the narrative.  The whole point is that Cersei is obsessing over a prophecy that she's fulfilling herself; she's hated and feared one brother while loving the one who will eventually kill her.  I can't see her dying and being like "oh, shit - I should have realised that it could have been ANY little brother. Silly me!".  

I can kind of buy that "the little brother" could be referring to Cersei's children, but I don't see why GRRM would have bothered with it if it could refer to any younger sibling.  Honestly, I think it referring to anything but Cersei's brother's would be a cheap semantic trick, and not something that George would do.  Jaime killing her has much more impact, both as a plot point and as an element of Maggy's prophecy.

[Arya-Jon]

I think that from Feast (perhaps even Storm) onwards, Jaime is at the beginnings of a redemptive arc - even if he doesn't quite realize it himself. In spite of the Kingslayer image he has lived inside ever since he killed Aerys, it is clear from the dream you mention, which takes place in Storm, that he feels guilt over his unfulfilled promise to Rhaegar to protect his wife and children.  In Jon XI in Dance, Jon takes Val to meet Selyse, and both Shireen and Patchface are present - 

"The crow, the crow" Patchface, cried when he saw Jon. "Under the sea the crows are white as snow, I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

This line is interesting. In Jamie's weirwood dream , he sees the Kingsguard armored in snow. There are many references to the snowy cloak of the kingsguard. So yours is an interesting interpretation .  I have seen some interpretations which relate snow to wights in this patchface line, which I always thought was wrong.  Dont know what under the sea means ? Does under the sea mean, in the future?  Or something else? Or just under the sea? 

The reference to 'crows' (which are black) and the 'white as snow' makes me think of the link between the Night's Watch and the Kingsguard. After all, Visenya Targaryen modeled the Kingsguard vows on those of the Night's Watch. This line can be construed as yet another link between Jon and Kingship - and I think to an extent it is - but it can also be seen as foreshadowing that Jaime could potentially join the Night's Watch and/or protect Jon as a Kingsguard (officially or unofficially).  

Jaime, in Feast, does try and fulfill his vow to Catelyn as well by sending Brienne after Sansa to find and protect her. This and his contemplation on Arthur Dayne and the previous Kingsguard members shows that he does have regrets about how things have turned out.  Of course, Jaime was still very young when he killed Aerys, and I wonder if at the time he decided that if he could not be famous (as Arthur Dayne was) then he could at least be infamous.  And it is not until he has time to sit and think - away from Cersei - in captivity that Jaime truly has a chance to assess where life has taken him. 

Perhaps it is this opportunity for self-reflection Jaime's had that reveals to him just how alike he and Loras are.  And he sees the potential - as Littlefinger does - for Loras to become a second Kingslayer.   

Agree!

[Arya-Jon]

 I can't see her dying and being like "oh, shit - I should have realised that it could have been ANY little brother. Silly me!".  

 

Why, that would be the most fun part  and would agree so much with the author has been trying to say . Every time we trust a prophesy it would bite you every single time. Especially when she realizes that she should never have suspected Tyrion.

Of course it should not be any little brother. It must be someone strongly connected to Cersei, or Margaery (if Marg is the more beautiful queen who would cast her down. Which is likely as Marg has officialy taken the title of Queen from Cersei, and it was indirectly due to Marg that she lost Joffrey, as Olenna killed him) ,or both, or a more universal organization like the Kingsguard which can compell Maggy to refer to him as the little .brother 

I know why people suspect Jaime, but it would ruin his redemptive arc. Killing one king  and then another queen. Is Jaime some professional ruler slayer? I actually find it cliche that we are using the same character for the same deeds. 

If Jamie is the valonqar, why are there so many Kingslayer references in Loras's narrrative? Why is everyone from Petyr Baelish to Sansa to Olenna Tyrell to Jaime hismself suspecting Loras of being capable of Kingslaying?

I personally wont discount Jaime as a possible Valonqar. But I do not want it and dont believe it would happen.

[Ferocious Veldt Roarer]

Why, that would be the most fun part  and would agree so much with the author has been trying to say . Every time we trust a prophesy it would bite you every single time. Especially when she realizes that she should never have suspected Tyrion.

 

Yes, it would bite you despite you having complete information, that's the fun part. The prophecy biting you in the arse because you have no information, however - where's the fun in that? And "the valonqar" meaning "seriously, any-fucking-body except the oldest slash only children" would be precisely that: no information or the closest thing to it.

The elegant solution to Cersei having all data now, yet be surprised as fuck at the actual solution? Tommen.

[Arya-Jon]

 

And "the valonqar" meaning "seriously, any-fucking-body except the oldest slash only children"

Nope I did not say that valonqar can be anybody.

This is what i said.

Why, that would be the most fun part  and would agree so much with the author has been trying to say . Every time we trust a prophesy it would bite you every single time. Especially when she realizes that she should never have suspected Tyrion.

Of course it should not be any little brother. It must be someone strongly connected to Cersei, or Margaery (if Marg is the more beautiful queen who would cast her down. Which is likely as Marg has officialy taken the title of Queen from Cersei, and it was indirectly due to Marg that she lost Joffrey, as Olenna killed him) ,or both, or a more universal organization like the Kingsguard which can compell Maggy to refer to him as the little .brother 

I know why people suspect Jaime, but it would ruin his redemptive arc. Killing one king  and then another queen. Is Jaime some professional ruler slayer? I actually find it cliche that we are using the same character for the same deeds. 

If Jamie is the valonqar, why are there so many Kingslayer references in Loras's narrrative? Why is everyone from Petyr Baelish to Sansa to Olenna Tyrell to Jaime hismself suspecting Loras of being capable of Kingslaying?

I personally wont discount Jaime as a possible Valonqar. But I do not want it and dont believe it would happen.

Check out the bolded part!