Sansa: "I did what I had to do to survive. I'll always be a stark"

[Daemon the Desired]

1 hour ago, Xarkar said:

So why exactly was it such a big deal for Robb to marry a Frey so they could get across the twins?   Wouldnt it have been easier to just take the kings road all teh way to KL?

 

I am sure i am missing some important fact here... its been so long!

 

When Robb marched south from Winterfell, he needed to cross the Green Fork. The Twins was the only possible crossing for an army that large. He could have marched south on to King's Landing if he wanted to, but he had to cross to end the Siege of Riverrun (which is on the other side of the river) and lead a campaing into the Westerlands.

The second time he had to cross was to go back north to free Winterfell of the Ironborn.

[mattnj81]

I could see a scene similar to Davos' first interaction with the Manderly's, with Sansa standing in for Davos. A northern lord feigns allegiance to the Boltons (perhaps in the presence of Umbers, Karstarks, etc.) and then we get "The North Remembers" speech. Delivered to Sansa instead of Davos.

[Colonel Green]

22 hours ago, RhaeBee said:

Why in the world would anybody proclaim Sansa queen? They proclaimed Robb stark king when they went to war against the Lannisters and the Iron Throne. This time, the fight is about Winterfell and the North itself, the conflict has nothing to do with having to answer to a higher standing ruler such as the king of the seven kingdoms in the south. And if the north remembers they probably remember how well it turned out the last time they proclaimed a stark child monarch of the north.

This is not specific to Sansa, but the Stark family as a whole has been attainted by the Iron Throne.  Any fight to restore the Starks to Winterfell is inherently a revival of the war of independence, because the Iron Throne will not consent to Sansa or Jon or Rickon or Bran ruling Winterfell.

9 hours ago, Karmarni said:

why did she think she was not being adulterous in marrying Ramsay (like nicely ask why she thought she could throw away the marriage to Tyrion - I don't think this would have occurred to show Sansa)

In the show's universe, her marriage being unconsummated makes it invalid and her capable of remarrying without any further proceeding.  Littlefinger said as much in 503, and everyone else in the show has acted in accord with this (for instance, when Littlefinger told Cersei that Sansa is to marry Ramsay in 506, she did not say "but Sansa's married to Tyrion and can't marry again", she immediately accepted that Sansa could do this).  I don't think this makes much sense as worldbuilding, but it's convenient for the plot, so the Lannister marriage is kaput.

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Larger still - Brienne at least told Sansa a tiny bit about Arya. Sansa should be gushing to tell Jon this. 

She did.  Hence why, later in her scene with Jon, she alludes to Arya being out there somewhere.

[A Ghost of Someone]

9 minutes ago, Ruben De Coninck said:

 

When Robb marched south from Winterfell, he needed to cross the Green Fork. The Twins was the only possible crossing for an army that large. He could have marched south on to King's Landing if he wanted to, but he had to cross to end the Siege of Riverrun (which is on the other side of the river) and lead a campaing into the Westerlands.

The second time he had to cross was to go back north to free Winterfell of the Ironborn.

Yep, this was back when Geography mattered and the Littlefinger teleportation device had not been invented yet.

[Snowlover1225]

I think a lot of people are forgetting something regarding Jon and Sansa. IF they are going to happen, the transition will be pretty simple. Growing up, she NEVER thought about him as a brother, only a bastard. She had complete disdain for him, just like her mother. There were never any familial feelings towards him. Or him for her, really because of how she treated him. If they take it in that direction, whether or not they find out they're only cousins before or after they fall in love, it will happen easily. I don't personally ship them myself but whatever floats your boat. 

[Quentyn Kartell]

13 hours ago, Smoke317 said:

Only army Sansa is getting is Littlefinger's...  But at what cost?

she wants as many supporters as possible. she will marry a wildling. she sent Littlefinger to get the support of the Vale, which I think he will not do, and she sent Brienne to the Riverlands for the support of the Tullys. But it's pretty clear that Brienne will be sidetracked by Lady Stonheart. So the only support will be the wildings, and the newly created House Thenn. This is why she said she will always be a Stark.

[a black swan]

15 minutes ago, Snowlover1225 said:

I think a lot of people are forgetting something regarding Jon and Sansa. IF they are going to happen, the transition will be pretty simple. Growing up, she NEVER thought about him as a brother, only a bastard. She had complete disdain for him, just like her mother. There were never any familial feelings towards him. Or him for her, really because of how she treated him. If they take it in that direction, whether or not they find out they're only cousins before or after they fall in love, it will happen easily. I don't personally ship them myself but whatever floats your boat. 

Doubt it. I think Sansa will betray Jon in the end. She is turning into a low budget LF. Her pride and overestimation of her own abilities will be her undoing. Jon doesn't need her to secure the North. 

Jon will either end up with Dany or Arya. 

[Colonel Green]

26 minutes ago, Quentyn Kartell said:

she wants as many supporters as possible. she will marry a wildling. she sent Littlefinger to get the support of the Vale, which I think he will not do, and she sent Brienne to the Riverlands for the support of the Tullys. But it's pretty clear that Brienne will be sidetracked by Lady Stonheart. So the only support will be the wildings, and the newly created House Thenn. This is why she said she will always be a Stark.

Sansa can't marry anyone.  She's married to Ramsay.

And in any event, the show!Thenns are a bunch of barbarous cannibals.

[Future Null Infinity]

2 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

The thing we really want her to tell Jon and the other Northern Lords that she needs is how LF ruined her life and gave her to her rapist

I think that sansa can't trust anyone anymore, we know Jon from our perspective as viewers as the good character but from the perspective of sansa it's the unknown, after what happened in her life she got a mistrust problem and I think the writers wanted to keep some secrets for them to keep the show interesting, after all killing my Littlefinger now is like stopping the engine of Game of Thrones, it yet to be seen why Sansa didn't tell Jon about LF, but I have so little hope in them to fully explain the actions of some characters, they are busy converting danny, tyrion and ramsay to gods

[Future Null Infinity]

46 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Doubt it. I think Sansa will betray Jon in the end. She is turning into a low budget LF. Her pride and overestimation of her own abilities will be her undoing. Jon doesn't need her to secure the North. 

You are not explaining what is the thing that will push Sansa to betray Jon?  Jon and Sansa are working as team now, stop putting the starks againt each other, that's not a competition, if you tell me that Jon doesn't need Sansa I can also say that Sansa doesn't need Jon, she could side Littlefinger and make the knights of the vale erase the boltons from the face of the earth and take the north for herself

46 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Jon will either end up with Dany or Arya.

Twilight much?

[LifeRuiner]

58 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I think that sansa can't trust anyone anymore, we know Jon from our perspective as viewers as the good character but from the perspective of sansa it's the unknown, after what happened in her life she got a mistrust problem and I think the writers wanted to keep some secrets for them to keep the show interesting, after all killing my Littlefinger now is like stopping the engine of Game of Thrones, it yet to be seen why Sansa didn't tell Jon about LF, but I have so little hope in them to fully explain the actions of some characters, they are busy converting danny, tyrion and ramsay to gods

Well, I'm sorry the show doesn't spend more time on your one favorite character. That said, I agree with you on Sansa probably not knowing whom to trust anymore or what trust is. We don't need the blow by blow of the conversation between Jon and Sansa, but at the same time, I'd have expected some indication of what has been said in what we've been shown.

So my money is on Sansa not having told Jon absolutely everything, on Jon not having told her he literally came back from the dead, or on the really bad writing choices: like having them chat about their childhood was more important than to discuss what had literally just happened to them as adults. 

[a black swan]

22 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

You are not explaining what is the thing that will push Sansa to betray Jon?  Jon and Sansa are working as team now, stop putting the starks againt each other, that's not a competition, if you tell me that Jon doesn't need Sansa I can also say that Sansa doesn't need Jon, she could side Littlefinger and make the knights of the vale erase the boltons from the face of the earth and take the north for herself

 

Sansa doesn't trust Jon. D&D have confirmed this. Why is this even a question? She has sent Brienne on her own into a dangerous situation. LF is playing her. Only your half-brother. His army you need one of your own. Why would she? 

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Twilight much?

Yeah, this Jon/Sansa fantasy. 

[Colonel Green]

3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Sansa doesn't trust Jon. D&D have confirmed this. Why is this even a question? She has sent Brienne on her own into a dangerous situation. LF is playing her. Only your half-brother. His army you need one of your own. Why would she? 

There's a big difference between being mindful of one's own position (which she obviously is) and stabbing him in the back.

[Future Null Infinity]

12 minutes ago, LifeRuiner said:

Well, I'm sorry the show doesn't spend more time on your one favorite character

Yes my LittleFinger is 404 not found this season

16 minutes ago, LifeRuiner said:

So my money is on Sansa not having told Jon absolutely everything, on Jon not having told her he literally came back from the dead, or on the really bad writing choices

they are pushing the show too fast to its end

[a black swan]

12 minutes ago, Colonel Green said:

There's a big difference between being mindful of one's own position (which she obviously is) and stabbirg him in the back.

Not only did she lie, her coverup story tried to make herself look more clever than she actually was in that situation. Didn't Arya actually do something similar when she was Tywin's cupbearer? Even Davos had to knock her down a peg and correcting her on how Northern men would react to this situation. Then she goes on to compare Jon to Ramsey. Girl bye. 

She wants everyone to be "mindful". Jon's WTF look was not missed. 

Her plot in the books must not amount to anything significant. Otherwise, she wouldn't be borrowing from a secondary character last season and this year, she is taking away from Jon's story in terms of leading a revolt. Tv!Sansa is so OOC and the writing is so forced and unnatural. 

 

 

 

 

[LifeRuiner]

4 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

they are pushing the show too fast to its end

I agree. I like the fast pace, but it feels like we're missing chunks of information. 

[Future Null Infinity]

41 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Sansa doesn't trust Jon. D&D have confirmed this

trust =/= betrayal, me not trusting someone doesn't mean that I will betray him

41 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

She has sent Brienne on her own into a dangerous situation

how riverrun is dangerous? it taken by Sansa's uncle, are you afraid for Brienne?, she is a deus-ex-machina, she killed Stannis in the midst of a battlefiled

41 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Yeah, this Jon/Sansa fantasy

the majority of the users in this forum here are grown men, we don't spend our time making pictures of Jon kissing Sansa, this is not tumblr

[Colonel Green]

13 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

Not only did she lie, her coverup story tried to make herself look more clever than she actually was in that situation.

And?

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Then she goes on to compare Jon to Ramsey.

The point of that comparison being that Northmen would follow him, much as they follow Ramsay.

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Her plot in the books must not amount to anything significant. Otherwise, she wouldn't be borrowing from a secondary character last season and this year, she is taking away from Jon's story in terms of leading a revolt. Tv!Sansa is so OOC and the writing is so forced and unnatural. 

Your evident desire to assert Sansa's unimportance aside, what they appear to be doing is trying to merge Sansa's plot about learning politics in the Vale with an eventual orientation northward (since Littlefinger is bringing the Valemen north, which he also says he will do in the books) with the rest of the Northern story.  How successfully they are doing this, well, that's up for debate.

Also for the record, both Sansa and Jon are at this point hogging Stannis' book story of rallying the Northern lords.

[Future Null Infinity]

5 minutes ago, Drogo_1 said:

With Sansa obviously having trouble convincing the North that she is a Stark & not a Lannister or a Bolten, I think we can only expect one of these Northern houses to have King Rob's decree legitimizing his brother Jon as a Stark and naming him King of the North in the event that he is killed. This will then give Jon the legitimacy that Sansa is having trouble with. The recruitment will go much faster after this happens. Then since Jon will be king she will bring in LF & the knights of the Vale as a way of putting him over the top and proving her loyalty.

I didn't read the books but I suppose that the decree was in the books but not in the show, I think that D&D are making the stories very different from the books

[Stargaryen81]

On ‎5‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 11:31 AM, Xarkar said:

The letter could also be to house Manderlay.  They have been name dropped 2 or 3 times now, and Jon/Sansa are going the opposite direction of White Harbour.  So I assume she is at house Glover, takes a boat to House Mormont, and pens a letter to House MAnderlay, thus giving her a fairly decent sized army to meet at Winterfel.  

 

LF feeling banished may send the Knights of the Vale to Riverrun to eliminate the Frays/Lannister army and hope that in doing so he can win back Sansa by proving his loyalty to her.  

What i dont get is how in the heck LF got the KotV past the twins.  Rob couldnt get this army across.  THen again the Lannisters still think LF is on their side right? so I guess that makes sense.

They don't have to go by the Twins to get to Moat Cailin