U.S. Election: My Female Heritage Biases Me From Making This Thread

[Myshkin]

38 minutes ago, Maester Drew said:

Could that not be extended to include at any time? And he discouraged his supporters from engaging in any form of violence, wouldn't you consider harassment a form of violence?

I would, yes. Die hard Berners I'm not so sure about. All you have to do is look at the aftermath of Nevada, and the excuses made, to see that this particular sub-group does not in fact consider harassment to be a form of violence.

[Kalbear]

Just now, Swordfish said:

He did do it.

Not in response to the harassment this time, no, he did not. 

Just now, Swordfish said:

So you're complaint here isn't that he has not done it, it's that he hasn't done it in the exact way that you want him to have done it.

My complaint is that he hasn't done it.

Just now, Swordfish said:

Your bias is really twisting you into a knot here I'm afraid, and i really don't fully understand why you seem to want to denigrate the guy at every conceivable turn, often going to great logical lengths to do so.

As I said, I'm not really caring about Sanders. I care about the harassment stopping. It's a hugely important thing to me that social media is not used as a weapon, especially against women. I've been against it with GamerGate and with Vox Day and with 4chan and now with the BernieBros. I want Sanders to do more because it matters to me. And because he's one of the only people that can, at the end of the day, actually tell these people to stop and have them listen. I can't do it. Clinton can't do it. Trump can't do it. The media can't do it. 

But Sanders actually has some power here to affect real, decent change, because these people are doing it in his name. 

I don't think that Sanders wants it. I don't think that Sanders approves at all. I think that like most movements that inspire people heavily people take their fandom way too far and become way too emotionally invested - and when that happens one way to make them less invested is to have the source of their investment speak against it. 

[Swordfish]

Just now, Kalbear said:

Not in response to the harassment this time, no, he did not. 

My complaint is that he hasn't done it.

As I said, I'm not really caring about Sanders. I care about the harassment stopping. It's a hugely important thing to me that social media is not used as a weapon, especially against women. I've been against it with GamerGate and with Vox Day and with 4chan and now with the BernieBros. I want Sanders to do more because it matters to me. And because he's one of the only people that can, at the end of the day, actually tell these people to stop and have them listen. I can't do it. Clinton can't do it. Trump can't do it. The media can't do it. 

But Sanders actually has some power here to affect real, decent change, because these people are doing it in his name. 

I don't think that Sanders wants it. I don't think that Sanders approves at all. I think that like most movements that inspire people heavily people take their fandom way too far and become way too emotionally invested - and when that happens one way to make them less invested is to have the source of their investment speak against it. 

All very admirable goals.  i share most of them.

I'm not just talking about this issue though.  You're consistently going out of you're way to paint him in the least favorable light, and I legitimately don't understand why it's so important to you that he be portrayed as the villain whenever possible.

And...  He has done it.  Repeatedly, and in no uncertain terms.

Your complaint is that he isn't doing it in exactly the way you ant him to.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-bernie-sanders-supporters-20160605-story.html

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SANDERS: I condemn it, absolutely. And let's be very clear: We have millions and millions of people who are supporting us, and I want to make it clear that any person who is a Bernie Sanders supporter, please, do not in any way, shape or form engage in violence. That is absolutely not what this campaign is about.

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Sanders issued a statement at the time saying his campaign "of course believes in non-violent change, and it goes without saying that I condemn any and all forms of violence, including the personal harassment of individuals.

 

And just for fun, let's not forget this qualifier put forth about the violence:

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“He created an environment in which it seemed to be acceptable for someone running for president to be inciting violence, to be encouraging his supporters, Now, we’re seeing people who are against him responding in kind.”

 

 

[Kalbear]

1 minute ago, Swordfish said:

All very admirable goals.  i share most of them.

I'm not just talking about this issue though.  You're consistently going out of you're way to paint him in the least favorable light, and I legitimately don't understand why it's so important to you that he be portrayed as the villain whenever possible.

But...I'm not. I could be hammering him on a great many things. I'm not remotely going out of my way. These are national leading articles that I'm mentioning. As an example, I don't think he needs to have conceded last night. I think he can take his time. However, I do think given the historic value of last night that he could have done more to congratulate Clinton, and I really, truly believe that he should have shushed his supporters that booed. This isn't hard. 

1 minute ago, Swordfish said:

And...  He has done it.  Repeatedly, and in no uncertain terms.

Your complaint is that he isn't doing it in exactly the way you ant him to.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-bernie-sanders-supporters-20160605-story.html

I'm saying he should do it again, then. And keep doing it every time it happens. Master Drew seemed to think that him talking about San Jose is enough. It's not. 

As an example, the above comment was directly in response to San Jose. The response about harassment happened a month ago, after Nevada. I would like to hear yet another response now. That's all! 

1 minute ago, Swordfish said:

And just for fun, let's not forget this qualifier put forth about the violence:

I have no idea what point you are attempting to make about this. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

20 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Not in response to the harassment this time, no, he did not. 

My complaint is that he hasn't done it.

Weren't those stories posted this morning or yesterday? Maybe you can give him a cycle to respond.

[TerraPrime]

I do wish Sanders will speak out about this, but at the same time, I am not too eager to assign some share of the blame to him, either. His followers are behaving poorly, albeit in the name of supporting him. I haven't seen or heard anything from Sanders that can be construed as him saying that it is what is needed or that it's justified. Given his generally progressive outlook I am going to assume that he does not and will not condone this. So I am not going to be upset that he doesn't speak out now. If things escalate more then yeah, he should say something.

[Swordfish]

2 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

But...I'm not. I could be hammering him on a great many things. I'm not remotely going out of my way. These are national leading articles that I'm mentioning. As an example, I don't think he needs to have conceded last night. I think he can take his time. However, I do think given the historic value of last night that he could have done more to congratulate Clinton, and I really, truly believe that he should have shushed his supporters that booed. This isn't hard. 

I'm saying he should do it again, then. And keep doing it every time it happens. Master Drew seemed to think that him talking about San Jose is enough. It's not. 

As an example, the above comment was directly in response to San Jose. The response about harassment happened a month ago, after Nevada. I would like to hear yet another response now. That's all! 

 

Right.  He's done it, just not in the way, or with the frequency, that you'd like.Same for the speech last night.  You're going to find SOMETHING wrong with it no matter what he says or does. "he didn't congratulate Clinton ENOUGH!"  "He hasn't condemned this violence ENOUGH'

That's exactly what I've been saying all along.  You seem to have this need to amplify any real or perceived transgressions by Sanders way out of proportion, and it's baffling to me.

It's all good though.  We can simply agree to disagree.

 

 

[Maester Drew]

9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

As an example, the above comment was directly in response to San Jose. The response about harassment happened a month ago, after Nevada. I would like to hear yet another response now. That's all! 

If Sanders apologizes or speaks out against it everytime, it will lose all meaning. Look at Obama when he responds to another mass-shooting, I personally change the channel because I'm weary of it and I've heard it all before and I'm sure I ain't the only one that feels that way.

[Kalbear]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Weren't those stories posted this morning or yesterday? Maybe you can give him a cycle to respond.

It took approximately 15 minutes for the Clinton campaign to respond to San Jose after the news broke. It's been what, almost 24 hours? But sure, let's give him a cycle or so.

[Swordfish]

1 minute ago, TerraPrime said:

I do wish Sanders will speak out about this, but at the same time, I am not too eager to assign some share of the blame to him, either. His followers are behaving poorly, albeit in the name of supporting him. I haven't seen or heard anything from Sanders that can be construed as him saying that it is what is needed or that it's justified. Given his generally progressive outlook I am going to assume that he does not and will not condone this. So I am not going to be upset that he doesn't speak out now. If things escalate more then yeah, he should say something.

Exactly.  It's much ado about nothing at this point.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

1 minute ago, Maester Drew said:

If Sanders apologizes or speaks out against it everytime, it will lose all meaning. Look at Obama when he responds to another mass-shooting, I personally change the channel because I'm weary of it and I've heard it all before and I'm sure I ain't the only one that feels that way.

There are many shootings that Obama doesn't respond to. I assume that he condones those. 

[TerraPrime]

Just now, Maester Drew said:

If Sanders apologizes or speaks out against it everytime, it will lose all meaning. Look at Obama when he responds to another mass-shooting, I personally change the channel because I've heard it all before and I'm sure I ain't the only one that feels that way.

That says more about you than anything else.

But yeah, I am sure you're not the only one who feels this way.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said:

There are many shootings that Obama doesn't respond to. I assume that he condones those. 

I don't believe that this is actually accurate. The Obama administration has made a comment about every single school shooting, actually. 

But hey, if you like - I do wish he would do more. 

[Swordfish]

4 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said:

There are many shootings that Obama doesn't respond to. I assume that he condones those. 

Seems legit.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

It took approximately 15 minutes for the Clinton campaign to respond to San Jose after the news broke. It's been what, almost 24 hours? But sure, let's give him a cycle or so.

But he just fired like 90% of his staff, right? C'mon. You are really holding him to a standard that is impossible to meet at this point.

[Kalbear]

And in actual election news - Harry Reid really wants Warren on the ticket, and I think it's becoming a bit more likely. It would be a very easy way to unite the party after the election, Warren is awesome and seen well, and a historic all-women ticket is hard to resist. Warren also is likely to not have much of a shot of a presidential bid after this. 

Reid's reluctance comes from losing the Senate seat, but apparently thinks that he can win it back anyway. 

I'm not sure how I feel about a Warren VP position. I like her, I like her fire and progressive stances. I'm concerned it won't add much to the overall ticket save as a olive branch to Sanders, and I'm not sure how valuable that is overall. 

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But he just fired like 90% of his staff, right? C'mon. You are really holding him to a standard that is impossible to meet at this point.

He still has his entire senior staff and is currently chilling in Vermont, literally doing nothing but relaxing. This is not at all an impossible standard, and we know this because other presidential candidates meet said standard without much of an issue. 

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

10 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

I don't believe that this is actually accurate. The Obama administration has made a comment about every single school shooting, actually. 

But hey, if you like - I do wish he would do more. 

It's too bad that Obama condones all the non-school shootings that he doesn't release statements on. As you may be aware, non-school shootings constitute the vast majority of shootings in the United States.  

[Maester Drew]

46 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

and I'm not sure how valuable that is overall.

You're probably right, I don't think she'll see an uptick in Sanders supporters backing her in the general, because many have already settled on what they'd do if Sanders lost. Possibly a tiny increase, now that Hillary clinched the nomination, but that's about it.

Then again, like everyone has been saying, things could change from here to November, so she could manage to net in far more Sanders supporters in the general, regardless who her VP pick is.

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, NestorMakhnosLovechild said:

It's too bad that Obama condones all the non-school shootings that he doesn't release statements on. As you may be aware, non-school shootings constitute the vast majority of shootings in the United States.  

Yep, it sucks. Agreed. I wish Obama would do more. 

He should especially do so when the shooter yells something like 'this is for Obama!'. It's a real shame he doesn't talk about that more too. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

19 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

He still has his entire senior staff and is currently chilling in Vermont, literally doing nothing but relaxing. This is not at all an impossible standard, and we know this because other presidential candidates meet said standard without much of an issue. 

Okay, an unreasonable standard. He was just in California late last night, right? If chilling = sleeping then yeah, I imagine he's chilling.