Dark Horse for iron throne

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 6/12/2016 at 6:11 AM, Elisabetta Duò said:

Go on Tumblr, there are so many Tyrion haters there that you wouldn't think he's too much of a fan fave. If there is a fan fave, that's Jon.. then Daenerys and Tyrion. 

My favorite characters are Catelyn Tully Stark and Brienne of Tarth... Based on this website, it's Tyrion, followed by Tyrion, and then Tyrion. Arya comes in fourth. I guess I just think it's boring when everyone picks the same characters for every discussion. Who is most likely to be a dragon rider? Tyrion. Who is least likely to be a dragon rider? Tyrion. Who will sit the iron throne? Tyrion. Who will be the best advisor? Tyrion. Who cannot sit the iron throne? Tyrion. Who is secretly a something? Tyrion. Who is the best written character? Tyrion. Who has the best morals? Tyrion.  Its like a Tyrion bonanza. Don't get me wrong, the way George R.R. wrote the character is magnificent, I just hate fans missing everything and just liking him no matter what. I don't think he can be considered a dark horse when fandom talks about him being a Targaryen, dragon rider, and advisor of the queen constantly. He is the least dark horse after Daenerys (who is actually a Queen) and Stannis (who is actually a King). No one put Jon Snow here (at least that I read, thankfully, because he is also not a dark horse). 

[Elisabetta Duò]

1 hour ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

My favorite characters are Catelyn Tully Stark and Brienne of Tarth... Based on this website, it's Tyrion, followed by Tyrion, and then Tyrion. Arya comes in fourth. I guess I just think it's boring when everyone picks the same characters for every discussion. Who is most likely to be a dragon rider? Tyrion. Who is least likely to be a dragon rider? Tyrion. Who will sit the iron throne? Tyrion. Who will be the best advisor? Tyrion. Who cannot sit the iron throne? Tyrion. Who is secretly a something? Tyrion. Who is the best written character? Tyrion. Who has the best morals? Tyrion.  Its like a Tyrion bonanza. Don't get me wrong, the way George R.R. wrote the character is magnificent, I just hate fans missing everything and just liking him no matter what. I don't think he can be considered a dark horse when fandom talks about him being a Targaryen, dragon rider, and advisor of the queen constantly. He is the least dark horse after Daenerys (who is actually a Queen) and Stannis (who is actually a King). No one put Jon Snow here (at least that I read, thankfully, because he is also not a dark horse). 

My fave are Tyrion, Podrick, Tywin, Varys, Brienne, Bronn, Garlan Tyrell, Arya, Sansa(if she keeps working on becoming a true player) and Oberyn. I kinda like Davos at times. I won't deny Tyrion is my fave by far, he's the reason why I kept reading but this doesn't make me a believer of every theory surrounding him. Personally I think he's a dragon rider but probably not a Targaryen. And I don't think he is a dragon rider because I like him, but because of the foreshadowing in the books since book 1, especially the lines dedicated to Viserion. According to the fanbase Jon is a Targ, the Prince who was promised, a dragon rider, handsome&tall, got the nice chick for a while, he literally RESURRECTED for God's sake (he will in the books as well) ... and nobody is complaining about a Jon bonanza or Jon being a Mary Sue. Daenerys is the mother of dragons _____ (endless list of titles), the super beautiful, the unburnt (I mean, flames..!), Targ, Azor Ahai, first and main dragon rider, super-conqueror, etc. .. and nobody complains. Arya escaped death a thousand times and many people think she'll be Jon's lovebird and Queen and it's fine. But if Tyrion is said to be both a Targ (which I don't even believe he is) and dragon rider... then oh God, oh no! Well, I smell double standards here. 

Btw, I wouldn't say Tyrion the most loved character on this forum (just to make an example, have you aver read any of the threads about Sansa and Sandor? they cut Tyrion in general and his morals in particular into pieces to explain how Sandor will be a better option as a love interest for Sansa). Thankfully for people who feel the same as you, there are plenty of other websites where other characters, especially Daenerys, Jon, Arya and The Hound are the faves by far. I think Brienne and Bronn are well liked as well (they're not often mentioned in threads only because they're not main characters, imo). For example there is a popular girl on Quora, like a sort of 'celebrity' on that website as far as I've gathered, read by loads of people and able to influence their view, who always speaks kinda ill of Tyrion and without going into details, she does it that in very clever manner as the persuasive tactics are involved. As I mentioned, Tumblr is full of Tyrion-hate. And so on.

Personally my opinion of the characters is not influenced by what other people think.. I'm not going to dislike a character or like him less because I'm pissed that everyone likes him, I'm not liking a character because nobody else does so I feel kinda cool liking him. I think each one of us usually fall for the same kind of character.. that's at least true for me, I've always been one for antiheroes since I was child, then in my Harry Potter days.. and I still am.

That said and back to the topic before we fall too much off topic, trying to be objective, I can certainly agree with you that Tyrion is not a dark horse in the way Gendry is, both in the books and in the reader's perception, that is undeniable, because he's one of the major characters and one of the fan faves.. but you have to consider that to decide who is a dark horse for the IT (or not), you're supposed to do that according to the narrative of the books and according to the rules of Westeros society, not according to the feelings of the readers...a character may be loved by the readers and still be a black sheep in Westeros (hence a dark horse for the IT, because Martin respects the rules of the society he created) ... and there is NO way that a dwarf isn't a black sheep and a dark horse for the IT. A dwarf is a dark horse just because he is a dwarf, for something really exceptional would have to happen in Westeros to make a dwarf king happen and be even barely accepted (let alone loved). Which is why I feel like he won't sit on the IT (if he survives). Therefore Tyrion, loved or hated by the readers, is a dark horse for the IT. He's not the ultimate dark horse, but he's a dark horse nonetheless.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

1 hour ago, Elisabetta Duò said:

My fave are Tyrion, Podrick, Tywin, Varys, Brienne, Bronn, Garlan Tyrell, Arya, Sansa(if she keeps working on becoming a true player) and Oberyn. I kinda like Davos at times. I won't deny Tyrion is my fave by far, he's the reason why I kept reading but this doesn't make me a believer of every theory surrounding him. Personally I think he's a dragon rider but probably not a Targaryen. And I don't think he is a dragon rider because I like him, but because of the foreshadowing in the books since book 1, especially the lines dedicated to Viserion. According to the fanbase Jon is a Targ, the Prince who was promised, a dragon rider, handsome&tall, got the nice chick for a while, he literally RESURRECTED for God's sake (he will in the books as well) ... and nobody is complaining about a Jon bonanza or Jon being a Mary Sue. Daenerys is the mother of dragons _____ (endless list of titles), the super beautiful, the unburnt (I mean, flames..!), Targ, Azor Ahai, first and main dragon rider, super-conqueror, etc. .. and nobody complains. Arya escaped death a thousand times and many people think she'll be Jon's lovebird and Queen and it's fine. But if Tyrion is said to be both a Targ (which I don't even believe he is) and dragon rider... then oh God, oh no! Well, I smell double standards here. 

Btw, I wouldn't say Tyrion the most loved character on this forum (just to make an example, have you aver read any of the threads about Sansa and Sandor? they cut Tyrion in general and his morals in particular into pieces to explain how Sandor will be a better option as a love interest for Sansa). Thankfully for people who feel the same as you, there are plenty of other websites where other characters, especially Daenerys, Jon, Arya and The Hound are the faves by far. I think Brienne and Bronn are well liked as well (they're not often mentioned in threads only because they're not main characters, imo). For example there is a popular girl on Quora, like a sort of 'celebrity' on that website as far as I've gathered, read by loads of people and able to influence their view, who always speaks kinda ill of Tyrion and without going into details, she does it that in very clever manner as the persuasive tactics are involved. As I mentioned, Tumblr is full of Tyrion-hate. And so on.

Personally my opinion of the characters is not influenced by what other people think.. I'm not going to dislike a character or like him less because I'm pissed that everyone likes him, I'm not liking a character because nobody else does so I feel kinda cool liking him. I think each one of us usually fall for the same kind of character.. that's at least true for me, I've always been one for antiheroes since I was child, then in my Harry Potter days.. and I still am.

That said and back to the topic before we fall too much off topic, trying to be objective, I can certainly agree with you that Tyrion is not a dark horse in the way Gendry is, both in the books and in the reader's perception, that is undeniable, because he's one of the major characters and one of the fan faves.. but you have to consider that to decide who is a dark horse for the IT (or not), you're supposed to do that according to the narrative of the books and according to the rules of Westeros society, not according to the feelings of the readers...a character may be loved by the readers and still be a black sheep in Westeros (hence a dark horse for the IT, because Martin respects the rules of the society he created) ... and there is NO way that a dwarf isn't a black sheep and a dark horse for the IT. A dwarf is a dark horse just because he is a dwarf, for something really exceptional would have to happen in Westeros to make a dwarf king happen and be even barely accepted (let alone loved). Which is why I feel like he won't sit on the IT (if he survives). Therefore Tyrion, loved or hated by the readers, is a dark horse for the IT. He's not the ultimate dark horse, but he's a dark horse nonetheless.

In that case, you could consider Jon Snow a dark horse. After all, in the actual books that have been produced so far, he is black brother of the night's watch and a bastard. If we are putting theories aside, that almost anyone who isn't Tommen Baratheon, Daenerys Targaryen, or Stannis Baratheon should be considered a dark horse. my reason that Tyrion isn't a dark horse is two fold. One, most of the people putting him as a dark horse are the same people who think he is a Targaryen and a dragon rider. In that case, I see him as a favorite to take the thrown if one or both of those are true. On the other hand, if we just go on the information we have so far, I think he has absolutely no possible hope of ever being King, and I'm not even sure if he desires it. He certainly desires power, but that doesn't mean he wants to be King. So again, I don't see him as a dark horse. 

To answer the part about double standards, I will say this. One, with the exception of Jon being a Targaryen, I never see any theories about him anymore. Just its basically accepted that he is a Targ (it's actually basically the only theory I buy into). And I see no theories about Daenerys. Yes, Jon and Daenerys are listed as like people who will possibly win stuff, but that is because it makes sense. One, Daenerys is actually a queen and she has dragons, and her house ruled westeros for a long time. Tyrion is regiciding dwarf ex-slave loathed by everyone in Westeros. They are mentioned equally as much as possible candidates for things. I even have seen dragon ridering posts where people say who will ride dragons, and Tyrion is almost universally agreed upon as a dragonrider, while Daenerys isn't!!!! SHE ACTUALLY RODE THE DRAGON ALREADY IN THE ACTUAL WRITTEN TEXT! Again, Jon Snow is also equally universally agreed upon, ...but if he is really Rhaegar Targaryen's son..and there is lots of factual evidence pointing to that....he makes sense as a prime candidate for all these things. The difference is that in universe, both Daenerys to a large extent, and Jon to a lesser extent are talked of as the answer to prophecies, dragonriders, good leaders, ect. Tyrion Lannister is almost universally hated by people in-universe. I would feel the same way if I saw Davos Seaworth or ...Theon Greyjoy written in the same way as Tyrion is by the fandom. Jon and Daenerys fit the role of leadership in Universe..Davos, Theon, Tyrion, Arya, ect. don't. And by the way I don't know what is happening in the show, and I dont' consider it canon...so if your going to tell me something about shipping Arya/Jon, please don't cause I'm trying so freaking hard to avoid all these ****ing spoilers. I would agree that Arya is also talked over the top, but it seems that could be related to the show..but based on what I know that has happened in canon, she is even less likely than Tyrion to get anything. At least Tyrion isn't working for a group of assassins..and doesn't seem to relate in anyway to any of the other characters. and P.s. if Jon and Arya do get together...I will hate it...I will hate it so much. 

P.p.s. On the note on favorite characters, since you mentioned a lot...I'll add Theon, Sansa (only because i relate to her the most in the series) and Davos to an extent as well in addition to Catelyn and Brienne. For non POV's, I will agree with you on Garlan Tyrell, and a bunch of other noble characters, Tytos Blackwood, Jason Mallister, Beric Dondarrian, Thoros of Myr, Osha, Ellaria Sand (her speech in ADWD was marvelous), Jhogo, Barriston Selmy, Rakharo, Aggo (got to include all the blood riders of Daenerys in here), and Brown Ben Plumm (My dark horse to be a dragon rider). I also liked Renly Baratheon before he died and to be lame, Eddard Stark, but mostly because Sean Bean killed it in Season 1 of the TV Series (the only season I actually enjoyed)

[Springwatch]

There's two ways of finding the next occupant of the Iron Throne:

1) Ask who has the best combination of abilities, experience, supporters + likelihood of surviving.

or

2) Ask yourself who would get chosen by a romantic dreamer like GRRM looking for a bittersweet yet hopeful end to his stories?

If it's (2), we can expect an idealistic teenager with no experience in the job that might cramp his grand ideas.

Don't laugh too soon. Remember the Lord Commander of the Watch, the Queen of Mereen, and the King in the North. Remember just how many of our heros are attractive youngsters, and how many of the older generation thoroughly deserve getting killed off - and they will.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 13/6/2016 at 2:21 AM, PCK said:

Apparently, there's some chart someone looked at that shows that Tywin's kids are the heirs after Robert, with no sons or brothers. Not sure if it's show only though.

I haven't seen anything like that in the books where the in laws aren't in the line of succession/

[YOVMO]

On ‎6‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 10:06 PM, MinotaurWarrior said:

Speaking darkhorse...

King Rickon Shaggydog Stark and Queen Janei Lannister (of the Appendix lannisters). He is already the King in the North, and by the time Cersei dies she'll have at most one living brother between her and claims on Casterly Rock, Storm's End, and the Iron Throne. Assuming the second Long Night lasts a "generation" they'd be adults in their prime of life when the apocalypse is over and people resume caring about petty things like crowns.

"the appendix Lannister" total win.