Why was Ned in the Vale?

[Laughing Storm Reborn]

The Stormlands were always close to the crownlands, twin regions almost, more so recently when aerys and steffon (who might have been well loved in the stormlands) were direct cousins and best friends... Robert, charismatic as he is, would find a difficult time marshalling the stormlords against the crown, RR being proof of it... Jon and Ned likely prevented a suicide mission of a hopeless husband

[Bright Blue Eyes]

8 hours ago, Alaynsa Starne said:

I imagine that not everyone would be there just because of some logistical issues. But... none of them? 

And I understand that Brandon's wedding with Cat would have been several weeks off from when Lyanna was abducted. But thinking about it, Rhaegar likely would have abducted Lyanna shortly after the tourney. She was taken only a bit away from Harrenhal. Why would Rhaegar wait several months to a year to get back to the same point to kidnap her? How would he even know that's where she was unless he followed her from the tourney? The most logical explanation is that the "some time after the tourney" in which Lyanna was abducted was probably only a couple of weeks. So even if Brandon's wedding were a few months away from when Lyanna went missing, it just seems weird that Ned would ride all the way to the Vale *if he was intending to go to the wedding* and then ride all the way back to Riverrun. We know the journey through the Vale is rough. It would make more sense for Ned to schedule his visit for after the wedding, not before. And if Ned wasn't planning to go to the wedding, why not? As far as we know, there wouldn't be a reason for him not to go. And we don't know of any cultural reasons he wouldn't. So he probably did intend to go.

Brandon's and Cat's marriage was at least half a year off.

 

During the "some time after the tourney" (~1 year), Rhaegar was with Elia. We've been speculating for years whether Elia was already pregnant at Harrenhal or not, but Aegon was definitely born during that time.

[Alaynsa Starne]

5 hours ago, Bright Blue Eyes said:

Brandon's and Cat's marriage was at least half a year off.

 

During the "some time after the tourney" (~1 year), Rhaegar was with Elia. We've been speculating for years whether Elia was already pregnant at Harrenhal or not, but Aegon was definitely born during that time.

Where are you getting ~ 1 year from? I haven't seen anything that even kind of suggests that. And how do you figure Brandon's wedding was half a year away from when Lyanna disappeared?

[Megaera]

According to this, http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaegar_Targaryen#Tourney_at_Harrenhal_.26_Robert.27s_Rebellion the 'kidnap' took place the year after the tourney.

Although 'the following year' is ambiguous in itself!

'The next year, Rhaegar seemingly kidnapped Lyanna, for reasons unknown'.

[Clegane'sPup]

On 6/21/2016 at 11:30 PM, Alaynsa Starne said:

So I don't know if this is just a case of awkward writing and poorly established timelines, or what. But it's one of those stupid details that annoys me. 

I can understand Eddard going back to the Eyrie after the tourney at HH. He and Cat have a little conversation in GoT:

That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me."

Seems like second son Eddard has a tiny resentment. Brandon was raised to be Lord of WF.

Eddard was supposedly in WF sometime because he has this remembrance:

"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale."

What bothers me is Rickard didn’t attend the tourney at HH. Brandon supposedly came from Riverrun. Eddard supposedly came from Eyrie. Benjen& Lyanna came from, ummm, WF?

This is where I get into twilight zone territory. Was Benjen with Lyanna when she was taken? Was Benjen the one who got word to Brandon about Lyanna’s abduction? OR after the tourney did Benjen travel back to WF leaving his sister, the one that is betrothed to the Lord of Storms End, unchaperoned. Or, or, or

 

Yes, the HH tourney, Lyanna going missing, and the Rebellion dribbles annoy me, and I think it is a combination of awkward writing & poorly established timelines.

[Alaynsa Starne]

58 minutes ago, Megaera said:

According to this, http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Rhaegar_Targaryen#Tourney_at_Harrenhal_.26_Robert.27s_Rebellion the 'kidnap' took place the year after the tourney.

Although 'the following year' is ambiguous in itself!

'The next year, Rhaegar seemingly kidnapped Lyanna, for reasons unknown'.

It seems like there a couple things wrong with this. As you pointed out "The next year" is incredibly ambiguous. It could mean a full year later, it could mean a few days. Furthermore, there isn't a citation for that claim, leading me to believe it isn't actually supported by the given text. Additionally, the wiki doesn't even have the precise year in which the tourney happened. It was either 280 or 281. Does that mean it began in 280 and ended in 281? Does that mean we're not given the year deliberately, or it just hasn't yet been confirmed because GRRM is shakey on timelines and chronology? 

Basically, as far as I know, we're not given any textual information beyond Lyanna being taken "some time" after the tourney and near Harrenhal. The location of the incident and the actors involved suggests to me that she was taken very shortly after the tourney. That Rhaegar would deliberately express public interest in Lyanna and then wait nearly a year to kidnap her *at the same location* defies logic. Why wouldn't he just take her there? 

I mean, obviously characters within a fantasy fiction predicated largely on the conflict of the human heart with itself are allowed to act illogically. But assuming that Rhaegar wasn't a hot mess riding all over the continent on the off chance that he would run into that one chick he met that one time, he probably took her shortly after the tourney.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1 hour ago, Alaynsa Starne said:

It seems like there a couple things wrong with this. As you pointed out "The next year" is incredibly ambiguous. It could mean a full year later, it could mean a few days. Furthermore, there isn't a citation for that claim, leading me to believe it isn't actually supported by the given text. Additionally, the wiki doesn't even have the precise year in which the tourney happened. It was either 280 or 281. Does that mean it began in 280 and ended in 281? Does that mean we're not given the year deliberately, or it just hasn't yet been confirmed because GRRM is shakey on timelines and chronology? 

The "either in 280 AC ro 281 AC" referred to the announcement of the tourney, not to the tourney itself. The World of Ice and Fire (along with some additional quotes from AGOT) makes it clear without a doubt that the tourney itself occured in 281 AC. 

Additionally, the "either in 280 AC or 281 AC" had a reference, explaining the issue. But since the wording was a bit confusing, it has been adjusted as to prevent any further confusion.

 

The tourney occured in 281 AC. When exactly in that year, we don't know, and opinions differ. It does seem to have been in the second half of the year, however, but again, we cannot specify.

 

In 282 AC, the war began. As it ended late in the year 283 AC, and lasted "close to a year", the conclusion is that the war began in late 282 AC. The war officially began when Aerys demanded the heads of Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn refused. Brandon and Rickard had been executed shortly before. While we don't know exactly how much time passed between Brandon and Rickard's deaths, and Lyanna's disappearance, it seems rather unlikely that most of the year passed in between, considering that Brandon rode to KL in anger immediately after learning about Lyanna, and Rickard was summoned by the King following Brandon's arrest (and did not need to pass the full distance from Winterfell to KL anymore, having already been on his way to Riverrun when news about Lyanna reached their ears).

[Alaynsa Starne]

16 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The "either in 280 AC ro 281 AC" referred to the announcement of the tourney, not to the tourney itself. The World of Ice and Fire (along with some additional quotes from AGOT) makes it clear without a doubt that the tourney itself occured in 281 AC. 

Additionally, the "either in 280 AC or 281 AC" had a reference, explaining the issue. But since the wording was a bit confusing, it has been adjusted as to prevent any further confusion.

 

The tourney occured in 281 AC. When exactly in that year, we don't know, and opinions differ. It does seem to have been in the second half of the year, however, but again, we cannot specify.

 

In 282 AC, the war began. As it ended late in the year 283 AC, and lasted "close to a year", the conclusion is that the war began in late 282 AC. The war officially began when Aerys demanded the heads of Robert and Ned and Jon Arryn refused. Brandon and Rickard had been executed shortly before. While we don't know exactly how much time passed between Brandon and Rickard's deaths, and Lyanna's disappearance, it seems rather unlikely that most of the year passed in between, considering that Brandon rode to KL in anger immediately after learning about Lyanna, and Rickard was summoned by the King following Brandon's arrest (and did not need to pass the full distance from Winterfell to KL anymore, having already been on his way to Riverrun when news about Lyanna reached their ears).

Thanks for clearing that up. 

[John Doe]

Would if the passage out of the Vale was temporaily blocked? Maybe they had to deal with the Mountain Clans again or an avalanche or something? Too much rain? Just throwing it out there.