The KITN's Court

[blckp]

22 hours ago, jrod said:

Doubt Daario has more men.  There were at least a couple or few hundred survivors on the BotB, just by looks of it when the Knights of the Vale ride in to save them.  Plus all the other Northern houses who didn't send me to fight (like House Manderly and Glover).  

Now no doubt that between The War of the 5 Kings, the Red Wedding, and other battles the North is very depleted, think they can scrounge together well more than like what isn't it like 2,000 Second Sons? 

the North has 4 big houses, karstark,umber,manderly bolton

bolton only house whose soldiers didn't died during red wedding has around 5k soldier

umber+karstark = 1k+ soldier during battle of bastard

Jon Snow said rest of all small north houses combined equal to Karsark and Umbers

Ramsay said rest of north houses combined has less soldier than Karsark,Umber,Manderly

so the north has around 2k soldier maybe even less consdering momront lost few of their 62 soldier and hornwood their 140 soldier

 

the north is shit,

the north killed their soldiers

Robert Rebellion -16 years ago

Greyjoy rebellion 8 years ago

Robb got killed and entire the north army

greyjoy invasion

fight for free from greyjoys

battleofbastard killed each other

 

its wonder they still has around 2k soldier

[lakin1013]

I do not know how Jon will organize around himself but having Bran on his side is like having 52 million advantage points!

[Twenty Goodmen]

39 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I do not know how Jon will organize around himself but having Bran on his side is like having 52 million advantage points!

I second that. If Bran can really control his powers he should be the single most powerful person in the story now. Who needs dragons? The north has a time lord! 

[Rory Snow]

3 hours ago, tugela said:

They have already prepared us for that. Before leaving Mereen Danearys has quite a few scenes explaining that she needs to make a political marriage in Westeros. Right now the only real candidates for that are Jon, Euron and maybe Littlefinger (although marrying him will not get her more power, since he wields indirect power only), and she has already committed to destroying Euron. So that leaves Jon. Who just happens to be a Targaryen, and thus suitable as a traditional groom for her. The other real power bases are Yara, the sand witches and the queen of thorns, all of who are women.

So it will be Jon.

You forget Robin Arryn. Granted this would be the epitome of a political match, but it would give Dany the Vale and it's Knights which a match with Baelish wouldn't truly secure. But truth be told, the smart money has to be on Jon.

[tormond]

He'll have his main advisers which will be: Davos, tormund, Sansa, and Lyanna. I imagine that Davos will stay in winterfell and maybe tormund too. I wonder if tormund will be willing to get some northern clothes on him

[Eddard the Builder]

2 hours ago, blckp said:

the North has 4 big houses, karstark,umber,manderly bolton

bolton only house whose soldiers didn't died during red wedding has around 5k soldier

umber+karstark = 1k+ soldier during battle of bastard

Jon Snow said rest of all small north houses combined equal to Karsark and Umbers

Ramsay said rest of north houses combined has less soldier than Karsark,Umber,Manderly

so the north has around 2k soldier maybe even less consdering momront lost few of their 62 soldier and hornwood their 140 soldier

 

the north is shit,

the north killed their soldiers

Robert Rebellion -16 years ago

Greyjoy rebellion 8 years ago

Robb got killed and entire the north army

greyjoy invasion

fight for free from greyjoys

battleofbastard killed each other

 

its wonder they still has around 2k soldier

Lol Wyman Manderly alone has roughly 10,000 men and a navy if we take book calcs into effect.  Jon can likely still muster 15,000 men.  And lol at you thinking the Karstarks and Umbers combined have a thousand men.  

As for this thread.  If Jon did actually have a small council I'd say the ideal make up would be:

• Hand of the King: Princess Sansa Stark- Knows the game and how its played, politically competent and could be in a good position to manipulate Sweet Robin.
• Master of Laws: Lord Yohn Royce- Powerful lord, appeases the Vale.
• Master of Ships: Lord Wyman Manderly- If we take the books into account he has a fleet and guards the largest harbor in the North.
• Master of Whispers: Ser Davos Seaworth- Smuggler connections could be great at establishing a spy network.  
• Master of Coin/ Maester: Samwell Tarly- Feel like Sam would actually be fairly good at balancing budgets.
• Advisor: Lyanna Mormont- Wise and gives good counsel.  Would be good to have here there so that when she is older she can assume a named position.
• Commander of the Guard: Tormund Giantsbane

[King Jon Snow Stark]

14 minutes ago, Eddard the Builder said:

Lol Wyman Manderly alone has roughly 10,000 men and a navy if we take book calcs into effect.  Jon can likely still muster 15,000 men.  And lol at you thinking the Karstarks and Umbers combined have a thousand men.  

As for this thread.  If Jon did actually have a small council I'd say the ideal make up would be:

• Hand of the King: Princess Sansa Stark- Knows the game and how its played, politically competent and could be in a good position to manipulate Sweet Robin.
• Master of Laws: Lord Yohn Royce- Powerful lord, appeases the Vale.
• Master of Ships: Lord Wyman Manderly- If we take the books into account he has a fleet and guards the largest harbor in the North.
• Master of Whispers: Ser Davos Seaworth- Smuggler connections could be great at establishing a spy network.  
• Master of Coin/ Maester: Samwell Tarly- Feel like Sam would actually be fairly good at balancing budgets.
• Advisor: Lyanna Mormont- Wise and gives good counsel.  Would be good to have here there so that when she is older she can assume a named position.

I also think Sansa should be the Hand of the King and his official heir apparent until he gets married and have children. He also add the Lord Commander of the Night Watch to his small council.

[BeeStark]

11 hours ago, Vuron said:

Knowing the Stark history of great decision making, Jon will probably name Littlefinger as Hand.

 

keep your friends close but your enemies closer... but don't make them your advisor!

[blckp]

19 hours ago, Eddard the Builder said:

Lol Wyman Manderly alone has roughly 10,000 men and a navy if we take book calcs into effect.  Jon can likely still muster 15,000 men.  And lol at you thinking the Karstarks and Umbers combined have a thousand men.  

As for this thread.  If Jon did actually have a small council I'd say the ideal make up would be:

• Hand of the King: Princess Sansa Stark- Knows the game and how its played, politically competent and could be in a good position to manipulate Sweet Robin.
• Master of Laws: Lord Yohn Royce- Powerful lord, appeases the Vale.
• Master of Ships: Lord Wyman Manderly- If we take the books into account he has a fleet and guards the largest harbor in the North.
• Master of Whispers: Ser Davos Seaworth- Smuggler connections could be great at establishing a spy network.  
• Master of Coin/ Maester: Samwell Tarly- Feel like Sam would actually be fairly good at balancing budgets.
• Advisor: Lyanna Mormont- Wise and gives good counsel.  Would be good to have here there so that when she is older she can assume a named position.
• Commander of the Guard: Tormund Giantsbane

sorry to inform you no where in book said mandry has 10k soldier or close to that, lol  even starks had at best 6k soldier without their bannerman and boltons has been contesting with starks for thousand years for the north

boltons rules the north with only 5k soldier, killed son of  wyman manderly and manderly afraid to fight botlons when jon snow asked for help, hmm

 

by the way when did starks started to rule over vale? if i remember correctly  starks and arryn fought with each other thousand years and it was draw no one conquered shit, house arryn rules over the vale thousands and thousand year, and lord of vale and warden of the east is robin arryn,

[rivers snow]

Can Jon petition the Citadel to send him Sam as his Maester? Can a king release someone from the Watch?

[Asvpxkvng]

1 hour ago, rivers snow said:

Can Jon petition the Citadel to send him Sam as his Maester? Can a king release someone from the Watch?

Well Sam just got there. Let's at least give him a chance to train so he can be a somewhat suitable and competent maester.

[Cragen]

3 hours ago, blckp said:

sorry to inform you no where in book said mandry has 10k soldier or close to that, lol  even starks had at best 6k soldier without their bannerman and boltons has been contesting with starks for thousand years for the north

boltons rules the north with only 5k soldier, killed son of  wyman manderly and manderly afraid to fight botlons when jon snow asked for help, hmm

 

by the way when did starks started to rule over vale? if i remember correctly  starks and arryn fought with each other thousand years and it was draw no one conquered shit, house arryn rules over the vale thousands and thousand year, and lord of vale and warden of the east is robin arryn,

I can`t wait for Jon and Dany marriage, just to see your reaction.

[Cragen]

10 hours ago, Asvpxkvng said:

^My hope. It's seemed pretty impossible to find a plausible away to marry Jon and Dany but that works. Of course GRRM would never let us be that happy.

I`m sure they will got married, but I can`t see how that would be happy moment. First it will be political marriage, not love affair. Imagine they are married and waiting baby(From her last chapter in ADWTD I think she can have children, not sure for TC show), then Jon find out he is Rhaegar son and he waiting child with his aunt. I would like to see Jon reaction.

[Asvpxkvng]

10 minutes ago, Cragen said:

I`m sure they will got married, but I can`t see how that would be happy moment. First it will be political marriage, not love affair. Imagine they are married and waiting baby(From her last chapter in ADWTD I think she can have children, not sure for TC show), then Jon find out he is Rhaegar son and he waiting child with his aunt. I would like to see Jon reaction.

Happy as in happy for the fans who love both of these characters. Yea Jon would probably flip lol I forgot to think about that. Either I doubt GRRM trope breakin self would even let it get that far. Just a few minutes ago I got to thinking how perfectly Jons story arc follows the traditional heroes arc. GRRM surely has a magnificent way to break it. I personally believe there will be some sort of devastating loss against the WW and Jon will commit suicide. Perhaps with a shard of dragon glass to the heart. Or a regular sword. Hehehe wouldn't that be about a bitch. Anyway ignore my crackpot theory or discuss it if you'd like  

[Cragen]

3 minutes ago, Asvpxkvng said:

Happy as in happy for the fans who love both of these characters. Yea Jon would probably flip lol I forgot to think about that. Either I doubt GRRM trope breakin self would even let it get that far. Just a few minutes ago I got to thinking how perfectly Jons story arc follows the traditional heroes arc. GRRM surely has a magnificent way to break it. I personally believe there will be some sort of devastating loss against the WW and Jon will commit suicide. Perhaps with a shard of dragon glass to the heart. Hehehe wouldn't that be abouta bitch. Anyway ignore my crackpot theory or discuss it if you'd like  

OK, we have different understanding of Jon`s character. For me Jon is not so honorable and heroic character, even show displayed him as such I still think about him through lens of his book character. For me reason he joined NW is not just honor, it`s also his ambition that have role in decision. He can`t accomplish anything because of his bastard status, so he choose NW because that is only place where doesn`t matter that he is bastard. Through hole book he fight with those ambitions, best example is when Stanis offer him Wintefell and his thoughts after, his realization that he will never be Lord of Winterfell itd. I want to see this collision between honor and ambition when Jon have real power. Marriage with Dany would be great way to deeper explore his character.   

[Asvpxkvng]

9 minutes ago, Cragen said:

OK, we have different understanding of Jon`s character. For me Jon is not so honorable and heroic character, even show displayed him as such I still think about him through lens of his book character. For me reason he joined NW is not just honor, it`s also his ambition that have role in decision. He can`t accomplish anything because of his bastard status, so he choose NW because that is only place where doesn`t matter that he is bastard. Through hole book he fight with those ambitions, best example is when Stanis offer him Wintefell and his thoughts after, his realization that he will never be Lord of Winterfell itd. I want to see this collision between honor and ambition when Jon have real power. Marriage with Dany would be great way to deeper explore his character.   

You describe certainly a more interesting character but (and I am but a lowly show watcher only) I fear the show has gone on the honorable and well meaning path for him. I however actively research some history of the asoiaf universe and I like to think that some of Rhaegars honor is what we see in Jon. However I feel that the Jon you described would have far more depth I believe the show is setting him up for a far more one dimensional point to be made by his character. Just look at the completely lack of character development he's received this season! And you can see the complete the lack of ambition in Jons show character by being constantly thrust into leadership positions with visible reluctance. I think the show is displaying his honor well meaning and determination in the fight against the dead just so we can see him defeated and broken and ultimately a WW or suicidal and dead. But Of course I am suggesting a very specific ending so I have a high probability of being wrong.

Also I read this somewhere else, if it happens as you said about him marrying Dany how do you think he would react to learning he is marrying his aunt?

[Cragen]

32 minutes ago, Asvpxkvng said:

You describe certainly a more interesting character but (and I am but a lowly show watcher only) I fear the show has gone on the honorable and well meaning path for him. I however actively research some history of the asoiaf universe and I like to think that some of Rhaegars honor is what we see in Jon. However I feel that the Jon you described would have far more depth I believe the show is setting him up for a far more one dimensional point to be made by his character. Just look at the completely lack of character development he's received this season! And you can see the complete the lack of ambition in Jons show character by being constantly thrust into leadership positions with visible reluctance. I think the show is displaying his honor well meaning and determination in the fight against the dead just so we can see him defeated and broken and ultimately a WW or suicidal and dead. But Of course I am suggesting a very specific ending so I have a high probability of being wrong.

Also I read this somewhere else, if it happens as you said about him marrying Dany how do you think he would react to learning he is marrying his aunt?

I'm not sure. I think he will think about himself as some kind of monster, he will be torn apart and confused.

[youshallnotpass]

6 hours ago, blckp said:

sorry to inform you no where in book said mandry has 10k soldier or close to that, lol  even starks had at best 6k soldier without their bannerman and boltons has been contesting with starks for thousand years for the north

boltons rules the north with only 5k soldier, killed son of  wyman manderly and manderly afraid to fight botlons when jon snow asked for help, hmm

 

by the way when did starks started to rule over vale? if i remember correctly  starks and arryn fought with each other thousand years and it was draw no one conquered shit, house arryn rules over the vale thousands and thousand year, and lord of vale and warden of the east is robin arryn,

House Manderly can easily muster 6-8k men, they have the most fertile lands and houses sworn to them. In the show though maybe 2-3k men. 

When Robb beheaded lord Karstark 3000 men left his army these where all Karstark men. Why would the new lord Karstark bring his whole army to the battle of Winterfell if they are facing a small army made up of wildlings and Boltons use all their troops so no need for over kill. 

My rough guest for the remianing northern millitary strength is easily 16-20k.

The norths full fighting forces is 45k men. 16,500 all died (including Bolton forces at Winterfell). These 18k men where gathered in short notice however if the north had months to prepare they can easily gather their full strength. 

To simplify it 

House Stark: taken back their lands maybe 3k men including the wildlings.

House Manderly 3-4k men

House Karstark: Reminaing men 2500 

All other houses 12-13k 

 

[Cragen]

4 minutes ago, youshallnotpass said:

House Manderly can easily muster 6-8k men, they have the most fertile lands and houses sworn to them. In the show though maybe 2-3k men. 

When Robb beheaded lord Karstark 3000 men left his army these where all Karstark men. Why would the new lord Karstark bring his whole army to the battle of Winterfell if they are facing a small army made up of wildlings and Boltons use all their troops so no need for over kill. 

My rough guest for the remianing northern millitary strength is easily 16-20k.

The norths full fighting forces is 45k men. 16,500 all died (including Bolton forces at Winterfell). These 18k men where gathered in short notice however if the north had months to prepare they can easily gather their full strength. 

To simplify it 

House Stark: taken back their lands maybe 3k men including the wildlings.

House Manderly 3-4k men

House Karstark: Reminaing men 2500 

All other houses 12-13k 

 

Robb didn't bring hole army that North can rise, because of North size and how situation was urgent.

Lets not forget about Winter Wolfs. Many Northern search for way to help survival of there families, so during wartime older people, younger sons choose to enter army so there families have more food.

[Eddard the Builder]

9 hours ago, blckp said:

sorry to inform you no where in book said mandry has 10k soldier or close to that, lol  even starks had at best 6k soldier without their bannerman and boltons has been contesting with starks for thousand years for the north

boltons rules the north with only 5k soldier, killed son of  wyman manderly and manderly afraid to fight botlons when jon snow asked for help, hmm

 

by the way when did starks started to rule over vale? if i remember correctly  starks and arryn fought with each other thousand years and it was draw no one conquered shit, house arryn rules over the vale thousands and thousand year, and lord of vale and warden of the east is robin arryn,

House Manderly can obviously raise more levies than House Stark.  They command the only port in the North as well as the only city.  Manderly's bannermen consist of over a dozen petty lords and a hundred landed knights.  I fully believe that peak House Manderly can field 10,000 men.  But I also acknowledge he lost 1500 men during TWOFKs so he's likely down to 8,000-9,000 men.  Also as has been stated already the North's military strength is 45,000 only 18,000 went south with Robb, even if all those men were butchered at the Red wedding (which we know is false I'd wager at least 5,000 of them returned home, part Bolton part Karstark in the books.  But likely even more in the show considering the Umbers were not at the Red wedding. Even with absolute casualties of the Bolton army that's still 25-27,000 men.  

Ramsay never called his banners.  He only was using bolton men and the small amount of men that went with Lords Umber and Karstark.  We know for a fact that the Karstarks have a bare minimum of 2,300 men intact from the war.  Show!Umbers also should have a relatively intact force considering Robb sent Greatjon to liberate the westerlands and was not at the Red Wedding.

The last point I'd make is that 200 years ago Torrhen Stark raised 30,000 men.  With the same logic assuming 18,000 are dead, Jon should be able to raise, minimally, 12,000 men.  

And Yohn Royce can be seen drawing his sword and yelling King in the North as well as the Northern Lords.  I'm sure he'd much prefer to follow a son of Ned Stark's than Littlefinger.