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JEORDHl

Lemore et Aegon Speculation

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I'm on my phone so can't really be bothered to parse the hundreds to topics to see if there was any discussion of this already, but... and bear with me here:

Say Ned's got an infant Jon at hand as the son of Lyanna and Rhaegar, whom he's promised to protect from Robert's wrath. Heading north, he stops at Starfall to deliver Dawn and pay respects, where he's confronted by Ashara who also has an infant and says the sprat is his.

I'd imagine this a troublesome situation because Ned's already trying to establish and maintain a simple bastard narrative -Jon as his- which would prove even more difficult to maintain should his real bastard by Ashara come to light.

So, surely some passionate words would've been had and declarations made. Jumping quite a few subsequent speculations, I wondered at a subplot rich with parallels.

Ned does the honorable thing despite it appearing otherwise, by taking Lyanna's child on as his bastard. A rough situation, but upright. Add then, a son by Ashara. What to do? 

He could take both boys and say they were twins I suppose, though suspect Ashara wouldn't just give up her son Ned's situation or no. Cersei suspected Ashara threw herself from Starfall due to Ned (iirc) and Barristan, if not the right one, figured it was a Stark that 'dishonored' Ashara. So, given Ned's promise to Lyanna, Ashara's sticking around with son complicates matters significantly-- for Ned, and possibly herself, as scrutiny into one would focus the same about the other, and if anyone happened upon the possibility of Ned having picked up a Targaryen bastard at the Tower of Joy... Which child might be most likely construed as the Targaryen offspring? 

Lots of people dismiss the idea of Lemore as Ashara because Tyrion didn't remark upon her 'haunting violet eyes' but if I'm an author playing with such, I'd do the same as Martin and avoid it by not remarking upon her eye coloring at all.

Illyrio and Varys' manipulations could put a Dayne colored Stark bastard to good use in various ways, with clear advantages to their main plan (Viserys et Dany). By passing him off as the real Aegon, they could pretty much ensure the protection and patronage of Connington, and when of age, Aegon would bring the Golden Company with him. A Stark bastard wouldnt. The latter being a hedge bet against Viserys or Dany amassing a small army of their own, deal with the Martells notwithstanding.

So.

Ned's promise. Ashara et child skipping the Narrow Sea. The narrative around Aegon's baby switch by Varys prior to the sack of King's Landing, coupled with Jon's (heh) swap of Mance's and Gilly's. Aegon's later marriage to Dany, and when the masks come off the possibility of bringing the North into the fold on Dany's side as well (Ned's son, not Rhaegar's) alongside staunch Targaryen loyalists like, but not limited to, the Daynes who themselves would have skin in the game.

Ned's bastard is entirely real, in one sense, Aegon alive and well, and fostered by Illyrio and Varys to prop up the Targaryen dynasty-- while themselves being ignorant of the dynasty Ned's 'bastard' in Jon Snow actually represents as cousin to Aegon and nephew to Dany.

A bastard Stark being held up as a Targaryen, while a bastard Targaryen is held up as a Stark (Snow)

Too much time on my hands, probably... but handled adeptly there's a lot of narrative wealth that could be mined from something like this.

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Ned is a honorable man. Why would Ashara throw herself off a balcony after just giving birth to a baby boy, girl? She will want to protect it right. A mother's love? It is possible Ned and Ashara had relations while the great tourney at Harrenhal was happening but we don't have any idea yet why Ashara committed suicide.

No, I strongly feel that Lyanna and Rhagars son, Ned accepted as his own, he stayed at Startfall after returning Dawn then he found a milk mother for Jon on his way North back home.

 

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21 hours ago, Lrd Commander Midnight said:

Ned is a honorable man. Why would Ashara throw herself off a balcony after just giving birth to a baby boy, girl? She will want to protect it right. A mother's love? It is possible Ned and Ashara had relations while the great tourney at Harrenhal was happening but we don't have any idea yet why Ashara committed suicide.

No, I strongly feel that Lyanna and Rhagars son, Ned accepted as his own, he stayed at Startfall after returning Dawn then he found a milk mother for Jon on his way North back home.

 

Lemore might be Ashara, but I don't think Aegon is her son.

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3 hours ago, Masha said:

Lemore might be Ashara, but I don't think Aegon is her son.

Best guess I've herd yet. Tyrion comments on her beauty a couple of times in Dance, and her beauty was well know. Baristan was smitend by her. Varys is clever enough to come up with a suicide back story knowing Ned came and went from Starfall and knowing their relationship. I wonder if Varys knows who Jon is?

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2 minutes ago, Lrd Commander Midnight said:

Best guess I've herd yet. Tyrion comments on her beauty a couple of times in Dance, and her beauty was well know. Baristan was smitend by her. Varys is clever enough to come up with a suicide back story knowing Ned came and went from Starfall and knowing their relationship. I wonder if Varys knows who Jon is?

 I doubt that book Varys knows who Jon is. Book Varys is prone to eliminating all obstacles on behalf of (f)Aegon, and Jon as L+R=J will be a huge obstacle to (f)Aegon taking the Iron Throne in the name of Targaryens and marrying Dany, especially if (f) Aegon is NOT Elia's and Rhaegar's son. Unless it will come up that Varys had a hand in the plot to assassinate Jon, which I don't believe 

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3 hours ago, Lrd Commander Midnight said:

I wonder if Varys knows who Jon is?

Probably not.

Varys has no reason to take interest in the genealogical tree of Ned Stark's bastard. If he had a reason to dig, he might have figured it out, but the mystery of Jon's origins hasn't been on his radar.

And as the above poster said, it's for the best. Varys's plan is faux!Aegon on the Iron Throne (not just any Targaryen), and so he'd have been trying to eliminate Jon. 

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Just a thought. Varys could use Jon Connighton (Rhaegar's friend) and Ashara (Elia's friend) to give Young Griff more legitimacy as Aegon. Anyway I don't believe Lemore = Ashara or that Young Griff is her son.

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Well, and I could be wrong here-- but doesn't Tyrion himself think that she must be someone, shortly before or after seeing the stretch marks from childbirth on her abdomen after her swim?

I. It gives an identity to Lemore-- a Westerosi, points out that she had a child and shows another reason for her attachment to Aegon

ll. Gives a non-Targaryen identity to Aegon (fulfilling the Mummer's Dragon) yet still makes him a character of import on his own

Imagine this conversation across the Narrow Sea:

Illyrio: Hey, Dickless. So we've caught up a Valyrian colored Westerosi woman with child here in your nets

Varys: Kind of busy here, my cheese eating oaf... Wait. What does she seem like

Illyrio: Educated, has bearing and her son takes after her coloring

Varys: That's... interesting

I mean, the 'accepted' narrative (Aegon) seems a little odd. They had no problem helping Darry with both Viserys and Dany, yet prior to the sack Varys spirits infant Aegon away only-- yet look at the potential benefits (Lemore as Ashara and her son by Ned as Aegon)  and consider that consumate gamblers latch on to anything that might increase their odds or hedge their bets.

Especially if they ever deduced or got her actual identity out of her. A woman from a noble House known as Targaryen loyalists, whose bastard son is of one of Westeros High Houses? So not only could they have Dorne supporting Viserys and Dany, but perhaps the Daynes and Starks as well?

I realize it doesn't have a lot of meat to it, but it would be pretty nifty in my opinion, and would compliment a few of the more mysterious strings ongoing in the novels.

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1. Varys knew Ashara at court, so he would recognize her.

2. Why would Ashara "turn" to a Stark instead of Barristan? This doesn't necessarily mean sexually. More than likely it is a reference for help or protection. I think Elia offered up Ashara to Rhagar as the best candidate for their 3rd child. After Rhagar picked Lyanna at the tourney, she realized that Lyanna was now being chosen to fulfill the prophesy. Ashara was pregnant and alone. She could not turn to anyone from the court. But here was an infatuated Ned Stark; an honorable man from good family and not promised to anyone. She turned to Ned.

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I don't see Varys and Illrio doing all they did to bring Ned's bastard on the IT. If they have one Targaryen looking bastard, it must be Illrio's. This man is merchant, a cheesemonger. Viserys and Daenrys were never their main plan. It was Aegon, from the start. And if Varys didn't want the fall of the Targaryen's dynasty, he would have helped Rhaegar. Instead of preventing him to depose his father.

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