Help needed.Some confused Thoughts on Bran/Brandon the builder.

[Macgregor of the North]

40 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I do need to return and read this thread more thoroughly as well as the comments, but I only have time for a quick comment....

I have been trying to nail down the order of the wheel of time, because there is a sequence of events, but I'm not sure in what order. Here is what I currently think is the cycle:

Birth of new cycle

Invading conqueror

Pact

Blood magic ritual

Red Comet

Lord steals a Moonmaid

Bastard of Winterfell

Nights King

Destruction

Be back later....

Welcome, so do you think the cycle ends with a long winter/long night destruction and goes back to the dawn age all over again? 

[BricksAndSparrows]

The internet has been in love with the ASOIAF secret identity and secret heritage conspiracies for sometime. But now it seems like all of those conspiracies have been overshadowed. All the secret persona conspiracies are converging in one massive, gushing climax. The mother of them all: Everybody is actually Bran!

Bran is Macumba.

[Melifeather]

20 minutes ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Welcome, so do you think the cycle ends with a long winter/long night destruction and goes back to the dawn age all over again? 

Think about applying this to each cycle of invader/conqueror.

First Men

Andals

Rhoynar

Targaryen

The Long Night ended with the annihilation of the First Men when the red comet struck the moon sending meteors down to kill nearly all life. There were some survivors, but not many, but this destruction actually led to the Drowned God religion of the Ironborn.

The destruction cycle doesn't have to mean the peoples experience the exact thing as the previous cycle, just that their time of power weakens or ends. For the Andals they intermarried. That was their pact, but their religion kept them from recreating the blood magic ritual which brings the red comet, so they avoided annihilation. 

The Rhoynar didn't try to take Westeros from the Andals. They only organized and intermarried with Dorne. Intermarriage was also their pact, and they too escaped destruction because they didn't practice the blood magic ritual that brought the comet.

The Targaryens tried the blood magic ritual at least twice: Summerhal and tower of joy. Summerhal failed to bring the comet though. Something was missing and it may have to do with Rhaegar's mother surviving. The moonmaid has to be sacrificed like the moon was sacrificed that first time that ended the Long Night. Rhaella would have had to have been sacrificed in order to bring the comet. That is why Rhaegar realized that he was not the Prince that was Promised, or according to the cycle of the wheel, the Bastard of Winterfell. The moonmaid is supposed to birth a bastard, the bastard rises to power, and another Long Night would be created. I have no idea why the Targaryens would want to purposely bring forth the Bastard on the wheel, but then the Long Night wasn't necessarily bad for humans. It was bad for Children, since I believe the story of the Long Night is about the Children of the Forest living in fear of the First Men.

Summerhal caused the wheel of time to go all wonky. Not only was there no comet, the next event was the Lord stealing a moonmaid, the fathering of a bastard, which led to another blood magic ritual at the tower of joy, which then caused the red comet to appear about 15 years later. I haven't worked out the details, but its part of the over all inversion theory that I have been working on at the other forum, The House of Black and White. The project is called Eating the Dragon's Tail, which is in reference to the ouroboros or wheel of time.

[aryagonnakill#2]

I wonder if the Stark Durrandon link could in any way be linked to a female to male marriage.  Rob "loved" Lyanna, and Arya and Gendry definitely have a connection.

Edit:  Perhaps the 7th Durran married a Stark girl who led him to plant a weirwood tree, thus allowing Bran to communicate with him?

[Melifeather]

I happen to believe that Robert Baratheon abducted Lyanna and not Rhaegar, and by doing so he reenacted the original Lord of Storm's End's taking of Elenei, the magical moonmaid who's parents were gods. Gendry and Arya will also replay the Storm Lord and the Moonmaid, and GRRM has said in an SSM that those two will meet again.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

1 hour ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

 

1 hour ago, BricksAndSparrows said:

The internet has been in love with the ASOIAF secret identity and secret heritage conspiracies for sometime. But now it seems like all of those conspiracies have been overshadowed. All the secret persona conspiracies are converging in one massive, gushing climax. The mother of them all: Everybody is actually Bran!

Bran is Macumba.

Haha 

It does make sense that older generations believed in some sort of reincarnation though. I personally don't buy the Bran doing everything from the future in the past and what not though.

But reincarnation makes sense,  with the spirits of greenseers living on in their animals,  and Ned's comments about the Wolf blood that only certain Starks seem to have... And then there is the history repeating itself thing... 

I can imagine that Starks traditionally named the one they thought to be the next greenseer Bran/Brandon, believing that the spirit of the last Brandon lived on in the new one... 

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

37 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I wonder if the Stark Durrandon link could in any way be linked to a female to male marriage.  Rob "loved" Lyanna, and Arya and Gendry definitely have a connection.

Edit:  Perhaps the 7th Durran married a Stark girl who led him to plant a weirwood tree, thus allowing Bran to communicate with him?

The Durrandons were First Men, so they would have a weirwood anyway. No need to get a Stark girl for that. 

Many houses in the south still have weirwood, there's a weirwood in Harrenhal, which Arya prays to, and Harrenhall is a pretty recent castle built by Ironborn... 

23 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I happen to believe that Robert Baratheon abducted Lyanna and not Rhaegar, and by doing so he reenacted the original Lord of Storm's End's taking of Elenei, the magical moonmaid who's parents were gods. Gendry and Arya will also replay the Storm Lord and the Moonmaid, and GRRM has said in an SSM that those two will meet again.

I find this unlikely. What makes you think this? 

[Melifeather]

1 minute ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

The Durrandons were First Men, so they would have a weirwood anyway. No need to get a Stark girl for that. 

Many houses in the south still have weirwood, there's a weirwood in Harrenhal, which Arya prays to, and Harrenhall is a pretty recent castle built by Ironborn... 

I find this unlikely. What makes you think this? 

LOL, this is a long story, but I'll try to condense. Through many discussions on other forums with many posters that all noticed echoes, parallels, and inversions in the books, one poster named Regular Jon Umber wondered to the group if the titled chapters meant anything. There are 30+ chapters beginning in AFFC running through ADWD and are expected to continue into the next books. They are titled versus named after a POV. The first one is, ironically, The Prophet. It didn't occur to me that these were inversion chapters until I had gotten to The Iron Captain...then the lighbulb moment came and I realized that while the chapter appears to be about Victarion Greyjoy the Iron(born) Captain, it was really a metaphor for the iron throne. I began to formulate a theory that there was a wheel of time where a sequence of events replays throughout history, but sometimes close to the current story the wheel reversed and different families were reliving the sequence of events in reverse. It seemed that the Greyjoys were poised to take Aegon the Conqueror's place on the wheel of time, but later when I got to The Reaver chapter, it became clearer that Victarion was reliving Aegor Rivers aka Bittersteel's life. Victarion invaded the Shield Islands near the mouth of the Mander, which mirrors when Bittersteel landed on Massey's Hook at the mouth of the Blackwater. This is a long explanation to help make the jump as to why I think Robert abducted Lyanna...

The Queenmaker chapter is about Arianne Martell, an elder daughter who wants to make sure she's her father's heir over a younger brother. She seduces Arys Oakheart into sneaking Myrcella out of Sunspear so that she can crown her. Myrcella's handmaiden Rosamund stays behind pretending to be Myrcella with red spots. Arys gets a man to dress in his armor to watch the door. Arianne thinks by crowning Myrcella that she will gather support to overthrow her father and be Lady of Dorne. The chapter repeatedly calls her "little Myrcella", which IMO makes her a symbol that represents the marriage pact between the Lannister crown and Dorne.

The inversion of Arianne and Myrcella's story is Cersei Lannister, the eldest twin who resents not being named her father's heir. She seduces Robert Baratheon with her father's knowledge in order to prevent Lyanna from becoming Robert's queen. Maester Walys keeps Lyanna home with red spots when Rickard and Brandon ride to Riverrun. Robert dressed in Rhaegar's armor with men dressed as Targaryen men, abduct Lyanna from Walys's care. Witnesses and even Lyanna herself thought it was Rhaegar, but Rhaegar was away "down south".

The whole plot was planned by Tywin Lannister to get revenge on the Targaryens. 

[Melifeather]

Getting back to the OP, is Bran being reborn over and over, or is Bran a time traveler? I could see this going either way. 

Bloodraven told Bran that he couldn't change the past, but I don't think that's entirely true. I think Bloodraven has fiddled enough with the past that he feels he's got it tweaked with the best outcomes and doesn't want Bran to change anything. If the past cannot be changed then why tell Bran to not seek to bring back his father? I think that was more of a warning than saying it couldn't be done.

[Manderly's Rat Cook]

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

LOL, this is a long story, but I'll try to condense. Through many discussions on other forums with many posters that all noticed echoes, parallels, and inversions in the books, one poster named Regular Jon Umber wondered to the group if the titled chapters meant anything. There are 30+ chapters beginning in AFFC running through ADWD and are expected to continue into the next books. They are titled versus named after a POV. The first one is, ironically, The Prophet. It didn't occur to me that these were inversion chapters until I had gotten to The Iron Captain...then the lighbulb moment came and I realized that while the chapter appears to be about Victarion Greyjoy the Iron(born) Captain, it was really a metaphor for the iron throne. I began to formulate a theory that there was a wheel of time where a sequence of events replays throughout history, but sometimes close to the current story the wheel reversed and different families were reliving the sequence of events in reverse. It seemed that the Greyjoys were poised to take Aegon the Conqueror's place on the wheel of time, but later when I got to The Reaver chapter, it became clearer that Victarion was reliving Aegor Rivers aka Bittersteel's life. Victarion invaded the Shield Islands near the mouth of the Mander, which mirrors when Bittersteel landed on Massey's Hook at the mouth of the Blackwater. This is a long explanation to help make the jump as to why I think Robert abducted Lyanna...

The Queenmaker chapter is about Arianne Martell, an elder daughter who wants to make sure she's her father's heir over a younger brother. She seduces Arys Oakheart into sneaking Myrcella out of Sunspear so that she can crown her. Myrcella's handmaiden Rosamund stays behind pretending to be Myrcella with red spots. Arys gets a man to dress in his armor to watch the door. Arianne thinks by crowning Myrcella that she will gather support to overthrow her father and be Lady of Dorne. The chapter repeatedly calls her "little Myrcella", which IMO makes her a symbol that represents the marriage pact between the Lannister crown and Dorne.

The inversion of Arianne and Myrcella's story is Cersei Lannister, the eldest twin who resents not being named her father's heir. She seduces Robert Baratheon with her father's knowledge in order to prevent Lyanna from becoming Robert's queen. Maester Walys keeps Lyanna home with red spots when Rickard and Brandon ride to Riverrun. Robert dressed in Rhaegar's armor with men dressed as Targaryen men, abduct Lyanna from Walys's care. Witnesses and even Lyanna herself thought it was Rhaegar, but Rhaegar was away "down south".

The whole plot was planned by Tywin Lannister to get revenge on the Targaryens. 

Wow... That theory is wild!  I still think it's extremely unlikely,  but kudos for creativity! 

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

Wow... That theory is wild!  I still think it's extremely unlikely,  but kudos for creativity! 

It's not crazy, but what is crazy is the number of parallel but inverted characters. Once you begin to take note of them and then keep track, it's difficult if not impossible to deny. If I wasn't poking away with just one finger on my phone it would be easier to type up a list for you.

[Macgregor of the North]

1 hour ago, Feather Crystal said:

Getting back to the OP, is Bran being reborn over and over, or is Bran a time traveler? I could see this going either way. 

 

Yeah getting back to the OP seems a good idea, a bit sidetracked this thread has been.

^^^ that's the question I keep dwelling on.

Is Bran always destined to become Bran the builder when the time loop comes round to his era and help humanity rebuild after the devastation of the Long night with the building of the wall and WF. 

Did he help that particular Durran during one of the loops so he could make his fortress impregnable with magical properties?

Is this perhaps the last cycle and Bran, having learned so much, will try something different this time so it's not a rebuild process for humanity etc but a better solution, at a very big cost. What that cost is I'm not sure. His own life? Not sure, but apparently there's a bitter sweet ending coming. 

Or instead of being some born again time loop Bran the builder is he a time traveller who is flitting through time from his Weirwood throne manipulating events until a better outcome happens for the world. This view makes me think of the film The butterfly effect.

[Melifeather]

I think Bran is trying to figure out a way to return Westeros to its original natural state where it was when the First Men first arrived. Only he also needs to eliminate the threat from the Others, and lastly take magical abilities away from humans. I think when the First Storm Lord married Elenei that is when humans were genetically fused with magic. Elenei's parents were both gods, and she had to take mortal form to marry. Somehow Bran has to remove this magical gene from the human gene pool.

[Macgregor of the North]

8 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said:

I think Bran is trying to figure out a way to return Westeros to its original natural state where it was when the First Men first arrived. Only he also needs to eliminate the threat from the Others, and lastly take magical abilities away from humans. I think when the First Storm Lord married Elenei that is when humans were genetically fused with magic. Elenei's parents were both gods, and she had to take mortal form to marry. Somehow Bran has to remove this magical gene from the human gene pool.

If it is a time loop happening, It is likely inevitable the first men will always cross to Westeros and encroach on the CoTf and the Giants territory and lifestyle. 

This may need to stop happening. Is it something as sinister as wiping out humanity to prevent the whole loop again? That seems more savage than bittersweet. 

[Melifeather]

I think the time loop is moving in reverse. 

1) Dany is the source/mother of dragons

2) the Greyjoys are the Targaryen-Blackfyre conquerors

3) Arianne is bringing the Dornish to the "Rhoynar". JonCon and Aegon represent the Rhoynar because they came from the Rhoynar river.

4) the Faith of the Seven are rising up against the Andals. Things aren't looking good for Cersei and Margaeey against the Faith Militant.

5) Jon is looking poised to become either the next Nights King or King in the North.

You may have noticed that the above list is the reverse order of the waves of migrants that conquered Westeros.

[Macgregor of the North]

5 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

 

So to keep on topic yeah I think there's definitely something in the idea that Bran (or the godhead of greenseers he is being assimilated into) will wind up causing a lot of the events that "primed" current day events and allowed our characters (or perhaps even forced some) to naturally follow this same course of action that has already occurred in the past but was always meant to occur in the present too.

This is what's interesting me on this topic. Let's elaborate. Do you think its possible that this outcome of the cycle will be different because Bran now knows that things have to be different, so he pushes/forces changes to happen so the outcome is different and there will be a balance or peace agreement, or something drastically different to every other loop outcome before that has saw Bran become Bran the builder and rebuild for the next time loop. 

What if Bran realises it's Jon who needs to be the difference this time round? Assuming of course RLJ which I am, then Bran maybe realises Jon is the key to make the difference and sets about moving pieces into place for Jon to be born and restore some kind of balance etc? I mean Jon has to play a massively important part still when the long winter hits surely. 

Maybe other loops have had the same idea and tried to make a First men/Targaryen Ice/Fire Union but it wasn't the right bloodline or something? Cregan tried to make a pact of ice and fire once. There's been the Targ Blackwood union that produced an awesome greenseer but he never fixed it, although he is in place now to teach the most powerful greenseer ever possibly who actually does have the power to change past events which BR couldn't properly do and thought was impossible.

Shit, feels like I'm rambling again.

[Macgregor of the North]

Bear in mind, I fully know I'm no expert on this, but this is just some thoughts I noted down but wanted to throw out there. My interest In this topic is peaking now with WoW coming closer to being released.

Time has possibly went in a continuous loop from a certain point, possibly when men(the first men) first merged with magic in Westeros? Or another point in time?which culminates in a long winter/long night that devastates all.

Humanity rebuilds each time but never to the point of fixing it so it won't happen again. Bran the builder exists at the end of the conflict each time to rebuild things such as the Wall, where he sets up the Stark ruled NW and tasks them with the watch against the next long night, the Nights watch, and he rebuilds WF, setting the Starks in place as Kings of winter and putting a rule in place that there must always be a Stark in WF(I'd love to elaborate more on that but it's surely as some kind of protective measure). 

Humanity(not sure if this is the right term to use) has waited for the correct person to be born in one of these time loops(or the correct person to open his third eye and receive training) to finally have the power to fix things correctly on the rebuild process. Now Bran is here, with the help of a lesser powerful greenseer in BR, he is the one who can possibly reach back in time and guide people in the past in directions in their lives that will one day lead to an outcome where the long winter/long night need not be another devastating war where Bran becomes Bran the builder and rebuilds to see the loop begin again. 

This could involve Jon as an important figure who has blood of the Royal lines of Ice and Fire in his veins as a kind of balance figure that the other time loops did not have, but may have tried for. See Cregan Starks failed pact of ice and fire with the Targs, or Targ/Blackwood unions.

As our story progresses we possibly see Brans powers grow to such scary heights that he actively begins to play a part in people's lives in the past to move things into place for Jon to be born and be a part of this time loop so he can be the main factor in the different outcome needed at the end of this loop, for it be a final solution and broken loop, instead of Bran becoming Bran the builder and rebuilding the Wall and WF etc etc. In preparation for the next long winter/long night.

The different outcome has to come at such a great cost though as we are not promised a happy ending but a bittersweet one, so there must be massive loss or sacrifice made. Maybe houses Targ and Stark are made completely extinct for it to work? Maybe the Others are completely extinct. Maybe magic is driven from the world completely and men live out their lives from then on with normal weather seasons and the times of magic and dragons and ice beings just becomes a myth from a different age.

I'm not entirely sure what the cost will be but it has to be different this time round and maybe the next two books will show Bran moving the past into place to make it so. 

More ramblings for sure from me, feel free to 'build' on this, or blow it down with an old broken horn. 

[Melifeather]

7 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Like how you say you don't consider Jaime as Soiled Knight material anymore because it can only fit one character.

Funny you bring this up, because I have actually reconsidered this. I do now think the Soiled Knight applies to him as well. Of course it does, since Cersei seduced him too. I think Cersei wanted to remove Jaime from inheriting. If she couldn't be Tywin's heir, she didn't want Jaime to have it either, and I think this is something Jaime will discover or come to a realization about on his own and will be the motivation for him killing her.

7 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Apparently GRRM almost wound up as a grandmaster chess player and it shows in the seemingly insane yet extremely structured logic that underpins the whole of the series

I liken the resetting of the wheel of time, or as you refer to it "time loop", as resetting a Cyvasse game. I think I tried making a list of possible Cyvasse pieces. We know there are elephants and dragons, but I also think there are kings, queens, etc. I think it's a game that the Children and their greenseers play, because they know each cycle has a conqueror and the Andals brought their own religion versus the First Men taking up the old gods. It changed the course of the game.

2 hours ago, Macgregor of the North said:

This is what's interesting me on this topic. Let's elaborate. Do you think its possible that this outcome of the cycle will be different because Bran now knows that things have to be different, so he pushes/forces changes to happen so the outcome is different and there will be a balance or peace agreement, or something drastically different to every other loop outcome before that has saw Bran become Bran the builder and rebuild for the next time loop.

I do think the name Bran the Builder is the name of the greenseer that resets the wheel, or time loop, or cyvasse game...whatever it really is. Setting the game pieces or changing the way the game plays just like you do in chess.

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

This could involve Jon as an important figure who has blood of the Royal lines of Ice and Fire in his veins as a kind of balance figure that the other time loops did not have, but may have tried for. See Cregan Starks failed pact of ice and fire with the Targs, or Targ/Blackwood unions.

I'm not convinced Jon is ice and fire. Not a believer that Rhaegar ever was involved. I think he was set up to take the fall. Jon is supposed to have more of the north in him, so I am expecting his parents to both be from the north.

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

The different outcome has to come at such a great cost though as we are not promised a happy ending but a bittersweet one, so there must be massive loss or sacrifice made. Maybe houses Targ and Stark are made completely extinct for it to work? Maybe the Others are completely extinct. Maybe magic is driven from the world completely and men live out their lives from then on with normal weather seasons and the times of magic and dragons and ice beings just becomes a myth from a different age.

Leaf tells Bran that the wolves will outlive them all, so the Starks will be the last humans, but the bittersweet ending may be the end of human life....well, there's no sweet in that, so there has to be some survivors.

[Seams]

1 hour ago, Macgregor of the North said:

Time has possibly went in a continuous loop from a certain point, ... which culminates in a long winter/long night that devastates all.

Humanity rebuilds each time but never to the point of fixing it so it won't happen again. ...

Humanity(not sure if this is the right term to use) has waited for the correct person to be born in one of these time loops(or the correct person to open his third eye and receive training) to finally have the power to fix things correctly on the rebuild process.

...

The different outcome has to come at such a great cost though as we are not promised a happy ending but a bittersweet one, so there must be massive loss or sacrifice made. ...

I'm not entirely sure what the cost will be but it has to be different this time round and maybe the next two books will show Bran moving the past into place to make it so. 

More ramblings for sure from me, feel free to 'build' on this, or blow it down with an old broken horn. 

Of course, we're all just theorizing but I wonder if Bran is the problem with the repeating time loop instead of the solution?

As I mentioned up the thread, I've been pondering the catspaw attempt on Bran's life. I have this sneaking suspicion that this was a Faceless Man assignment, and that the FM organization has not given up on its task. My guess is that the "catspaw" was only supposed to set the fire in the library and deliver the special, magical knife to the real assassin (who wore the face of Old Nan). Now the FM are training up a new assassin who will have special access to Bran: Arya will be given the task of killing Bran in order to stop the cycle, (and/or stop Bran from interfering with the past), and restore the normal order of seasons.

Sansa will probably be involved, too. I think Littlefinger may be an agent for the Faceless Men. Or maybe a renegade faction that has broken away from the Faceless Men? (He might want to take Bran's place as the new "three-eyed crow," but needs a Stark skinchanger to lead him to the cave.) My gut feeling at this early speculative stage, is that Sansa will be on Bran's team, if there is such a thing. Or maybe she represents a third team that also has to be defeated by Arya. I base this on the snow castle scene where, with the help of Baelish, she "rebuilds" Winterfell:

Sansa began to make snowballs, shaping and smoothing them until they were round and white and perfect. She remembered a summer's snow in Winterfell when Arya and Bran had ambushed her as she emerged from the keep one morning. They'd each had a dozen snowballs to hand, and she'd had none. Bran had been perched on the roof of the covered bridge, out of reach, but Sansa had chased Arya through the stables and around the kitchen until both of them were breathless. She might even have caught her, but she'd slipped on some ice. Her sister came back to see if she was hurt. When she said she wasn't, Arya hit her in the face with another snowball, but Sansa grabbed her leg and pulled her down and was rubbing snow in her hair when Jory came along and pulled them apart, laughing.

What do I want with snowballs? She looked at her sad little arsenal. There's no one to throw them at. She let the one she was making drop from her hand. I could build a snow knight instead, she thought. Or even . . .

She pushed two of her snowballs together, added a third, packed more snow in around them, and patted the whole thing into the shape of a cylinder. When it was done, she stood it on end and used the tip of her little finger to poke holes in it for windows. The crenellations around the top took a little more care, but when they were done she had a tower. I need some walls now, Sansa thought, and then a keep. She set to work.

I know this doesn't quite provide enough evidence and doesn't have a solid footing as an overarching plot prediction. I suppose you could add in Arya and Sansa representing the two swords, Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail, doing battle with each other. But we need to know what happened to Bran as the snowball fight came to an end, or what Arya did after Jory pulled Arya and Sansa apart.

I think Arya needs to break the cycle because, if she doesn't, Jon Snow will either never be born or he will die young. And Arya will be stuck in Old Nan limbo for the next few centuries, waiting for the next "Bran" to be born so she can complete her FM assignment.

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, Seams said:

As I mentioned up the thread, I've been pondering the catspaw attempt on Bran's life. I have this sneaking suspicion that this was a Faceless Man assignment, and that the FM organization has not given up on its task. My guess is that the "catspaw" was only supposed to set the fire in the library and deliver the special, magical knife to the real assassin (who wore the face of Old Nan). Now the FM are training up a new assassin who will have special access to Bran: Arya will be given the task of killing Bran in order to stop the cycle, (and/or stop Bran from interfering with the past), and restore the normal order of seasons.

I thought it was confirmed in the books that Joffrey sent the killer with a knife he took from Robert's collection? His motivation was simply that he had heard Cersei and Jaime say that it would be a mercy if Bran died, not that Joffrey even cared about mercy, but he may have intuitively felt Bran knew something about his mother and Jaime...something that I think even Joffrey understood, that his "uncle" was his father.