Is Jon really b*stard born?

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

Whether it's true or not.... for it to be legitimized there would need to be paperwork or a few respectable witnesses to back it up otherwise it never happened..

[Scorpion92]

2 hours ago, Lord Friendzone said:

People are focusing on him being bastard or not. Truth is that his actions will earn him things, Sam pushed him to be LC after his valiant effort against Wildlings invasion. Lady Mormont for his heroic or someone say stupidity at the battlefield. So basically someone will give him title, things but in a way he'll earn it. Not just beacuse he's kid from someone he's not going to sit on Iron Throne based on that. It will be because he's the best one to do so and voted by others.

Exactly my thoughts.

[Gaz0680]

On 15 August 2016 at 4:02 AM, Lord Friendzone said:

People are focusing on him being bastard or not. Truth is that his actions will earn him things, Sam pushed him to be LC after his valiant effort against Wildlings invasion. Lady Mormont for his heroic or someone say stupidity at the battlefield. So basically someone will give him title, things but in a way he'll earn it. Not just beacuse he's kid from someone he's not going to sit on Iron Throne based on that. It will be because he's the best one to do so and voted by others.

That was my whole point in this thread. 

Jons storyline is meant to be about him accomplishing great things in spite of being shunned, mistreated and looked down upon because of his societal status (where nowadays noone really cares if your parents were married or not at time of birth, it was a huge thing in society during middle ages times).

My whole point is that even if Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, the plot NEEDS to still have him being a bastard through that, otherwise it invalidates one huge part of his storyline.

If Jon is suddenly NOT a bastard, then all the mistreatment etc was for no reason and the story would essentially be condoning the behaviour of others towards him when they thought he was a bastard. Also if he is not a bastard, it would lessen the impact of his previous trials because then all of s sudden he would be recognised and accepted and the story would have no way to really deal with the issue of judging people on their birth.

This is precisely why I am saying it would be HORRENDOUS fairy tale storytelling if it kind of just goes suddenly Jon is the "rightful" (in Westeros laws) heir of Rhaegar."

The story still requires Jon to be a bastard regardless of his parents for his entire plotline to work and actually prove any kind of point. If Jon is the "legitimate" heir (again, under Westerosi law) and claims the crown because of that, his whole storyline becomes pointless.

The story NEEDS Jon to be a bastard son of Rhaegar and for him to prove himself worthy of leadership (not necessarily the Iron Throne) through his actions in order for story to show the stupidity of the belief that whether hour parents were married at time of your birth matters or determines your worth. 

If Jon is not a bastard, his whole story and build up is suddenly fu&&ed and I for one would be really really pissed at GRRM for turning Jons potential deep story into a fairytale.

 

[Noelle Snow]

I don't think that's right. I'm pretty sure that if he is shown, proven or not, to be true born that it shows he managed to accomplish those things anyway, even without people knowing he was trueborn at the time. Jon is a king now. Whether he sits the IT in the long run or not, he is the KITN as chosen by the northern lords. They chose him fully believing he's a a bastard and they chose him anyway. His being shown to be legitimate will not negate the fact that he rose to become LC and then a king while everyone believed he was a bastard. Being trueborn does not negate those accomplishments. It can showcase that it's the person, not their status upon birth, that defines who they are.

And the whole "that's such a fairytale ending" if he turns out to be the rightful king and gets the throne always annoys me. This is Jon we're talking about. You truly think a happy ending for him is ending up on the IT? Jon of all people? Plus this notion that GRRM always breaks tropes is nonsense. He doesn't always follow the same path but there are plenty of tropes in ASOIAF and GoT.

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, Noelle Snow said:

And the whole "that's such a fairytale ending" if he turns out to be the rightful king and gets the throne always annoys me. This is Jon we're talking about. You truly think a happy ending for him is ending up on the IT? Jon of all people? Plus this notion that GRRM always breaks tropes is nonsense. He doesn't always follow the same path but there are plenty of tropes in ASOIAF and GoT.

IMO, there is no indication in the story that this pattern for the ascension of Jon to the IT by his actions will stop because :

• even if he will know R+L=J, it will be very hard to prove it to the people of Westeros
• the contrast of his character and Daenerys must continue (she's pursuing the IT with her birthname)
• He never wanted the LC and he never wanted the KitN but his destiny will push him to the IT

[Salacious Crumb]

Perhaps Bran only tells Jon about his parents to stop an incestuous marriage to Dany and the procreation of more crazy Targ children.  This makes the fact he is a Targ only relevant to the story as potentially forestalling an alliance and north/south unity, and not for the purpose of putting him on the IT.