Heresy Project X+Y=J: Wrap up thread 3

[wolfmaid7]

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

What makes you think that a presence at the toj, it would attract any attention? Do you think the mountains of Dorne are uninhabited? In this area of thousands of square miles, do you expect the Dornish forces to check out every camp fire they spot in the distance, question every herder, check every old building to see who's there?

Dorne's army is too small. It would take thousands, probably tens of thousands, of scouts to give even reasonable coverage of the region. And it would be utterly pointless.

They are watching for the unlikely event that an army moves south. An army would come by the road.  With Ned's forces moving south they might finally have reason to put a few dozen scouts in some other strategic points just on the unlikely off-chance that Ned decided to do a Hannibal rather than taking his army down the wide way, but they're not out looking for a small band hiding away in the mountains, they're watching for armies.

This notion that it is impossible for people to hide away in thousands of square miles of mountainous terrain is frankly absurd. People do it all the time, in the middle of war zones, without being found. 

Well we have a few Marcher Lords in the Dornish Marches and i'm sure they won't be oblivious to the going and comings within the territory seeing that a ver of them aren't friendly.Plus,i mean the KGS and they  got to eat and they definitely would need water which is really scarce in the Red Mountains.

I know the Red mountains aren't uninhabited but the picture that is painted still doesn't lead to one that easily traveled.

 " The disunity of the Dornish is apparent even from our oldest sources.The great distances between each pocket of settlementband the difficulties of travel across burning sands and rugged mountais helped isolate each small community from all the other...."Wb,pg.238.

And this is part of the problem i brought up."Death was riding Lyanna's horse from the get go" Per you the toj was probably hundreds of miles deep in the mountains from the Princes pass. I get that,its possible,though as i said i don't see why as it would need to be able to observe the pass for a considerable distance.Even if there were other castles nearby that fell to ruin the toj would still need to be in eyeshot of them no?

But back to my point,lets say its deep in the mountains,what nut job would take Lyanna there where travel was so treacherous.And i say this with your "miles from pass" in mind.

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

Who says they're not talking about it all the time? Did you read all the chapters set at Kingsgrave, Starfall and Nightsong very carefully to check?

Don't you see the double standard here? You contend that her body was treated at the Quiet Isle, where we actually have a PoV chapter, and nobody mentions it there. Yet you deem it impossible that her body could have been treated at Kingsgrave for example, because despite the fact we haven't had any PoV information from either, we'd somehow HAVE to have heard of it?

Its not a double standard,as who would know who she was? On the Isle she would be just another noble girl,and i think that specificity of noble girl was a hint.You see no  POV doesn't have to tell us specifically who in that situation,because Martin created a narrative that already tells us that nobles girls go there when pregnant.The sick and injured go there and i'm pretty sure not all of them make it.

I did read them and i'm not saying that its impossible that Lyanna's body could have been taken from further  into the mountains to Kingsgrave,Starfall,Nightson etc. I'm doubting it because again the distances between these areas makes it kind of hard to reconcile.

So why my view,at this moment and i may have missed it,i see nothing that says she could have been taken to any of these places.GRRM goes out of his way to mention the situation at the Isle and i have no doubt that by default Lyanna's body could have been treated at these places.But GRRM threw in a spanner and told us in the dialogue that the Isle of faces is a place that pregant nobles girls go,is a place that the sick and injured go.If that wasn't there then i would'nt even be talking about this because it would have been a given that he took her to one of those places.

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

Erm... yes. We know for a fact that they would. Ned took Dawn back to Starfall, remember? 

Was he trying to hide? I don't think so.Ned came back with just Howland yet somehow everyone "knew" that he beat Arthur in single combat and then took Dawn back to Starfall where Ashara was waiting for him.

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

Huh? I didn't say the ToJ was in the lowlands of the marches (I assume that's what you meant). I was merely addressing the suggestion that there was little wood in the marches.

Enough to make bows,but a pyre...........Nahhhhh

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

Ask Robert, or Dany, or Barristan, or any of the other people who can imagine it. 

Ask Robert----Who has no logical basis or foundation for this belief. In his mind why else would Rhaegar have kidnapped her? In his mind it would be rape because he doesn't believe Lyanna would have been with him otherwise.

Ask Dany-- Who has been given a romaticized version of events and no matter what would not see her brother as a rapest when everyone say he was a swell guy.

But Kingmonkey these people are wearing Walt Disney glasses,they aren't thinking anything else but emotionally.

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

And why wouldn't those resources be available visitors to the area?

They would be,if visitors brave the distance and the terrain to get there.

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

Yes, and? What has the size of the place got to do with it? If you're a day's journey from the nearest major town, you're a day's journey from the nearest major town whether the country you are in is tiny or vast. 

Days journey in the hot sun across shitty terrain? 

On 10/22/2016 at 10:25 AM, Kingmonkey said:

What does this even mean? Who says it didn't get out? It's no secret that she died. Why should it be a secret where her body was treated for transport? It could be perfectly well known to everyone who cares. Maybe there's a friggin' plaque up somewhere in Nightsong. 

Yeah, we haven't been told. So? It's not an important detail. It must have happened somewhere, yet we've never had an indication of it. So as far as the reader is concerned, it clearly didn't "get out" -- which has zero bearing on whether other people in world know that information or not.

You're contending her body was prepared for transport at the Quiet Isle -- which we've actually seen, and even heard an account of from the very time in question -- and it didn't "get out". How on earth can you say you buy that, but you don't buy the possibility that it would have happened in a place we've never seen, involving people we've never heard from, and yet that somehow must have gotten out?

No not the dying part,the Lyanna Stark was cremated at such and such a place.If you believe the default then ts no secret. if you believe that GRRM having a character mention the specifics of the Quiet Isle wasn't just for so then if anyone knew that Lyanna was there,that she died there then that might raise questions.One of which will be she must have benn preggers.

Again we can take the angle that it wasn't mentioned at all so its unimportant because its a default that's what he must have done. All that would be no problem, except GRRM threw in a variable,another place that tells us they get the pregnant noble girls,sick and injured.

On 10/22/2016 at 11:53 AM, Ygrain said:

I'm afraid I don't have the time to adress the responses properly, I would only like to point out that if Ned could bring down a tower and build eight cairns from its stones, it is utterly ridiculous to claim that he couldn't have possessed the means to build one frikkin pyre. Whether he had too much time on his hands, or had access to some manpower, is unknown, but the thing with the tower and cairns is stated black on white right there in the books, in Ned's waking and sober memory. 

Oh, and GRRM has enough material for a pyre huge enough to burn a man, a woman and a horse, to the point of leaving only ashes and bones, in a dry grassland, so please stop claiming that there would be a problem with finding fuel in the mountains.

 No its not Ygrain......This was an entire people moving across a vast land they are going to be collecting resources as they go.That is a given.They would have come with wood for tents,and to cook etc.They were expected to camp you know.

You really think Howland just laid back and watched Ned pull down the tower by himself?

 

[wolfmaid7]

Ok i think we have gone as far as we can in this so i'm reporting it for length.

[Kingmonkey]

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Well we have a few Marcher Lords in the Dornish Marches and i'm sure they won't be oblivious to the going and comings within the territory seeing that a ver of them aren't friendly.Plus,i mean the KGS and they  got to eat and they definitely would need water which is really scarce in the Red Mountains.

The Dornish Marches isn't actually part of Dorne. The Marcher Lords are in another country.

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Per you the toj was probably hundreds of miles deep in the mountains from the Princes pass.

Oh please, I never said that and you know it. How far do you think it would have to be from the roadway to be invisible from it? A couple of miles?

Seriously, just think about this for a moment. Mountains are the hardest type of territory to scout. Something can be half a mile from you the other side of a peak and be a days' hard travel to get there. You're saying that it's impossible to hide in thousands of square miles of the easiest type of terrain there is to hide in. 

We KNOW that Rhaegar "couldn't be found". Obviously it is not magically impossible for people to hide in Westeros. The Red Mountains would be one of the easiest places to hide in all of Westeros. 

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

I get that,its possible,though as i said i don't see why as it would need to be able to observe the pass for a considerable distance.Even if there were other castles nearby that fell to ruin the toj would still need to be in eyeshot of them no?

It could be anywhere. Borders have changed repeatedly through history. It might be a guard tower that was built to protect against a threat that hasn't existed for centuries. The Vulture Kings would be a decent guess.

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

But back to my point,lets say its deep in the mountains,what nut job would take Lyanna there where travel was so treacherous.And i say this with your "miles from pass" in mind.

Someone who didn't want her to be found. 

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

I did read them and i'm not saying that its impossible that Lyanna's body could have been taken from further  into the mountains to Kingsgrave,Starfall,Nightson etc. I'm doubting it because again the distances between these areas makes it kind of hard to reconcile.

It could be a day or two by horse. No problem.

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Was he trying to hide? I don't think so.Ned came back with just Howland yet somehow everyone "knew" that he beat Arthur in single combat and then took Dawn back to Starfall where Ashara was waiting for him.

He wasn't trying to hide, I agree. What relevance has that to do with transporting a body? You put the body on a horse, you ride to the place you are going. He did this with Dawn, he could have done this with Lyanna's body, too. What's the difficulty?

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Ask Robert----Who has no logical basis or foundation for this belief. In his mind why else would Rhaegar have kidnapped her? In his mind it would be rape because he doesn't believe Lyanna would have been with him otherwise.

Ask Dany-- Who has been given a romaticized version of events and no matter what would not see her brother as a rapest when everyone say he was a swell guy.

But Kingmonkey these people are wearing Walt Disney glasses,they aren't thinking anything else but emotionally.

Yet they're not thinking "Hang on, that's impossible." Which maybe indicates that it's not impossible. 

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

They would be,if visitors brave the distance and the terrain to get there.

Days journey in the hot sun across shitty terrain? 

Seriously? You're claiming that the toj makes no sense as a hiding place because people are all over the place all the time, yet at the same time that it's impractical for people to travel around a bit because of the hot sun and shitty terrain? Don't you see the contradiction here?

32 minutes ago, wolfmaid7 said:

Again we can take the angle that it wasn't mentioned at all so its unimportant because its a default that's what he must have done. All that would be no problem, except GRRM threw in a variable,another place that tells us they get the pregnant noble girls,sick and injured.

The problem is that it might not be a variable. You have chosen to interpret it as relevant to the Lyanna situation, and if that is so then it would be a variable. However if it's not relevant to the Lyanna situation, it's not a variable. Thus we're back to the fundamental question -- apart from the fact that it would make a neat story, what actually links Lyanna to the Quiet Isle? What's exclusive to the Lyanna story that connects with the Quiet Isle, therefore making the QI part of Lyanna's story, rather than simply having one or two concepts in common?

Essentially your argument so far comes down to:

Y might be true.

If Y is true, then X is false.

Therefore x is false. 

[SFDanny]

5 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

I agree on all of this. My point re: Essos is that they could blend in better--less likely to be identified by everyone. And I agree that the evidence of a trip to Essos would be symbolic at best, at least what I've been able to cobble together.

What makes you think they would blend in easier? Do we know all of the party, or any of them, could speak the languages of the Free Cities? If not, they end up like Arya, marked as Westerosi, and as outsiders from their first step. It seems to me a trip to Essos relies even more on a local supporter to help them "blend" in with the native populations.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't rule out travel beyond the Tower of Joy for any of the party, in part or in whole. I just don't see a clue that points us in this direction yet. We can speculate on what could send some of them there, but we haven't a hint such a journey took place. For instance, I've long been partial to the idea of another poster that instead of having all three of the Kingsguard remain at the Tower after Rhaegar goes north, that he orders at least one of them - Ser Gerold being the most prestigious and the most likely - to travel to the Golden Company to negotiate the return of the exiles in exchange for their support in the rebellion (and perhaps bringing back the sword Blackfyre as part of the bargain.) If so they turned the offer down. It's fascinating speculation, but that is all it is. So far.

5 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

 

But in wanting support from a Lord--for all of the hypotheticals we've been discussing, there is one Dornish house where we know Rhaegar has a thick-as-thieves friend: Daynes. Everyone else in Dorne is hypothetical. Daynes are actually given in the books.

I agree. As I said in a previous post, most of these scenarios explaining Ned's travels and Jon's origins don't work without some sort of support from the Daynes. The most obvious support being the employment of Wylla in the Dayne household. A woman who claims to be Jon's mother and Ned's lover, and the supposed cause of the heartbreak and suicide of Lady Ashara. But what the Daynes don't have is easy proximity to the Tower of Joy. If they supplied the inhabitants of the Tower then they did it from a long distance. I know you take that as a reason to think the inhabitants of the Tower went to Starfall. I don't. Simply because we have no clue this is so, and plenty of reasons that question the wisdom of such a hiding place.

5 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

Agreed--just not in Dorne. 

Agreed--we know he has support elsewhere. In Dorne? The only one we know is Daynes. And we know that the stony Dornish fought Targ rule. We do have the Fowlers getting friendly at times with the Martells, but Doran doesn't trust the Fowler twins in his plans. All the rest of the Dornish houses--we got nothing. Only Daynes.

Again, I think you are taking part of the history of the region and its people and applying it to a very specific time and very specific people to whom none of it may be anything other than background noise. This is what I meant by "stretching the analogy" of the Vale clans too far. Every section of Dorne fought Targaryen aggression when it happened. Once the peace between Dorne and the Iron Throne took place and a half blood prince of Dorne sat the Iron Throne in King's Landing much of this history is changed. Even before this the relationship of House Targaryen to House Martell dramatically changed with the marriage of Prince Maron to King Daeron II's sister Daenerys.

Quote

However, Prince Maron had won concessions in the accord, and the lords of Dorne held significant rights and privileges that the other great houses did not = the right to keep their royal title first among them, but also the autonomy to maintain their own laws, the right to assess and gather taxes due to the Iron Throne with only irregular oversight from the Red Keep, and other such matters. Dissatisfaction at these concessions was one of the seeds from which the first Blackfyre Rebellion sprang, as was the belief that Dorne held too much influence over the king - for Daeron II brought many Dornishmen to his court, some of whom were granted offices of note. (TWoI&F 100-101) bold emphasis added.

So the relationship with Dorne is flipped from the foremost antagonist to the Targaryens to one of a unique privilege unknown to even other great houses. And it changed to this in a relative short period of time.

But this too is old history for the time and people almost a hundred years removed from Dorne's swearing fealty to the Targaryens. What we see in the period in question is Dorne's relationship to the Targaryens strengthened again by the marriage of Elia Martell to Rhaegar Targaryen. 

Quote

Prince Rhaegar's support came from the younger men at court, including Lord Jon Connington, Ser Myles Mooton of Maidenpool, and Ser Richard Lonmouth. The Dornishmen who had come to court with Princess Elia were in the prince's confidence as well, particularly Prince Lewyn Martell, Elia's uncle and a Sworn Brother of the Kingsguard. But the most formidable of all Rhaegar's friends and allies in King's Landing was surely Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. (TWoI&F 125) bold emphasis added.

So, up until the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark, many of Rhaegar's chief friends and supporters come from Dorne, and while that act certainly reverberated through and tested many alliances, it did not change the fundamental interests of the Martells to see young Aegon sit the Iron Throne, or necessarily sever all relations between Rhaegar and all the many lords in Dorne. All of which is to say these parts of Westerosi history are very much more important in this discussion than references about ancient antagonisms between Houses of the Prince's Pass and their neighbors, or pre-Daeron II Targaryen's history of Dornish and Targaryen wars.

more later

[Kingmonkey]

On 23/10/2016 at 6:53 PM, Sly Wren said:

Sure--but Rhaegar isn't just melting in to the snows. He's theoretically holed up in a watchtower. One place. Has to at least be in sight of the road. 

I think this debate can be simplified to this point of difference -- I disagree with the notion that it has to be in sight of the road. There is simply no information on this in the books. 

The Princes Pass covers an area of thousands of square miles. There's a main road that passes through it, but there's far more to it than that main road. If you're at war with your neighbours, would you only guard the main route through? Of course not. You'd set up watchtowers and fortifications in smaller valleys and passes that could be used to bypass the main route. Over time, some of these routes would no longer need to be watched. Borders could change, passes could be closed off by rockfalls, etc. I've proposed one possibility a few times before -- that the toj was built in the days of the Vulture Kings, to deal with that threat, or perhaps as an advanced post of one of the Vulture Kings.

So either the toj is in sight of the road, or it is not. If it is in sight of the road, there's a problem with it being a long-term hideaway. If it is not in sight of the road, there is no problem with it being a long-term hideaway. As we do not know exactly where the tower was, rather than dismissing the reasons to believe that it was indeed a hideaway, why not just assume that it was in fact not somewhere obvious?

 

 

[Kingmonkey]

9 minutes ago, SFDanny said:

So, up until the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark, many of Rhaegar's chief friends and supporters come from Dorne, and while that act certainly reverberated through and tested many alliances, it did not change the fundamental interests of the Martells to see young Aegon sit the Iron Throne, or necessarily sever all relations between Rhaegar and all the many lords in Dorne. All of which is to say these parts of Westerosi history are very much more important in this discussion than references about ancient antagonisms between Houses of the Prince's Pass and their neighbors, or pre-Daeron II Targaryen's history of Dornish and Targaryen wars.

Nicely said. 

Rhaegar's strongly supported by the Dornish against Aerys. If Rhaegar wants to hide out somewhere and not be found even by Aerys, what better place than to hide away than with your allies?

Of course there's an objection to this: Lyanna. If Rhaegar dumped Elia for Lyanna, wouldn't that piss the Dornish off? Maybe. On the other hand, we don't know what Rhaegar's motives were when he abducted Lyanna, let alone what he told other people his motives were. The Dornish may not have been aware of the idea that Rhaegar had dumped Elia. Alternatively they may have known but still preferred the idea of Rhaegar, with his half-Dornish heir, on the throne rather than Dorne-hating Aerys.

[Sly Wren]

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

What makes you think they would blend in easier? Do we know all of the party, or any of them, could speak the languages of the Free Cities? If not, they end up like Arya, marked as Westerosi, and as outsiders from their first step. It seems to me a trip to Essos relies even more on a local supporter to help them "blend" in with the native populations.

I was assuming that Rhaegar spoke multiple languages, given than he was a student. But that is just an assumption.

But Barristan was Westerosi, and blended in as just another traveller. I was thinking along those lines for Rhaegar and co.

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't rule out travel beyond the Tower of Joy for any of the party, in part or in whole. I just don't see a clue that points us in this direction yet.

Agreed--any textual hints (that I've noticed) are pretty symbolic and equivocal re: a trip outside Westeros. 

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

But what the Daynes don't have is easy proximity to the Tower of Joy. If they supplied the inhabitants of the Tower then they did it from a long distance. I know you take that as a reason to think the inhabitants of the Tower went to Starfall. I don't. Simply because we have no clue this is so, and plenty of reasons that question the wisdom of such a hiding place.

But this is only a problem if we insist that they had to be in the tower for any length of time vs. it's just the place the KG ended up meeting Ned's people for a fight (either by accident or design). 

Since the books don't say one way or another yet, the Daynes not being in close proximity to the tower isn't really a problem. ETA: And Martin has been laying groundwork for Jon's ties to Starfall since Cat's first POV. Exactly what the ties are is to be seen. But there's groundwork if Martin want's to use it.

As for Starfall's wisdom as a hiding place--it's back to the idea of duration: hole up in any one place for long, you increase your chances of someone discovering you. But if they are sheltered by someone they trust, at least you have immediate allies if something goes sideways.

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

Once the peace between Dorne and the Iron Throne took place and a half blood prince of Dorne sat the Iron Throne in King's Landing much of this history is changed. Even before this the relationship of House Targaryen to House Martell dramatically changed with the marriage of Prince Maron to King Daeron II's sister Daenerys.

Yes--but according to Aero Hotah and somewhat supported by Doran, the Dornish are fractious and always have been. If Doran knows that and keeps his own "people" out of his plans as a result, seems like Rhaegar would be wary, too.

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

So, up until the kidnapping of Lyanna Stark, many of Rhaegar's chief friends and supporters come from Dorne, and while that act certainly reverberated through and tested many alliances, it did not change the fundamental interests of the Martells to see young Aegon sit the Iron Throne, or necessarily sever all relations between Rhaegar and all the many lords in Dorne. All of which is to say these parts of Westerosi history are very much more important in this discussion than references about ancient antagonisms between Houses of the Prince's Pass and their neighbors, or pre-Daeron II Targaryen's history of Dornish and Targaryen wars.

But assuming all this is true, it comes back the the same issue: if Rhaegar was to trust anyone, we know for a fact he trusted Arthur most. The others are hypotheticals re: how much he trusted them. Or could count on them. Barristan clearly thinks Rhaegar confided in Arthur and trusted him above all.

So, if Rhaegar's going to bet on any house helping him, seems like he'd bet on Dayne. All of the others, we have no data on how much he trusted them. Only that the Dornish are fractious.

48 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said:

Rhaegar's strongly supported by the Dornish against Aerys. If Rhaegar wants to hide out somewhere and not be found even by Aerys, what better place than to hide away than with your allies?

And who's his strongest ally? Arthur Dayne. The others--Doran and Hotah make it clear the Dornish are fractious. And we don't know how much Rhaegar trusted them.

We know he trusted Arthur. 

Quote

Of course there's an objection to this: Lyanna. If Rhaegar dumped Elia for Lyanna, wouldn't that piss the Dornish off? Maybe. On the other hand, we don't know what Rhaegar's motives were when he abducted Lyanna, let alone what he told other people his motives were. The Dornish may not have been aware of the idea that Rhaegar had dumped Elia. Alternatively they may have known but still preferred the idea of Rhaegar, with his half-Dornish heir, on the throne rather than Dorne-hating Aerys.

Agreed on the bolded--but given that Rhaegar had plans and was letting the country blow up while he went through with them (I think the blow up was innately part of the plan), he'd want people not to interfere. I could see the Martells most definitely trying to interfere on Elia's behalf if they found Rhaegar. After all, Rhaegar left Elia behind and Aerys ended up taking her hostage. 

If Rhaegar needs his plans unimpeded, seems like he'd want to keep Doran out of his way.

[Sly Wren]

30 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said:

I think this debate can be simplified to this point of difference -- I disagree with the notion that it has to be in sight of the road. There is simply no information on this in the books.

True--we don't even have that it's a watch tower in the books. But it's at least a tower.

30 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said:

The Princes Pass covers an area of thousands of square miles. There's a main road that passes through it, but there's far more to it than that main road. If you're at war with your neighbours, would you only guard the main route through? Of course not. You'd set up watchtowers and fortifications in smaller valleys and passes that could be used to bypass the main route. Over time, some of these routes would no longer need to be watched. Borders could change, passes could be closed off by rockfalls, etc. I've proposed one possibility a few times before -- that the toj was built in the days of the Vulture Kings, to deal with that threat, or perhaps as an advanced post of one of the Vulture Kings.

So either the toj is in sight of the road, or it is not. If it is in sight of the road, there's a problem with it being a long-term hideaway. If it is not in sight of the road, there is no problem with it being a long-term hideaway. As we do not know exactly where the tower was, rather than dismissing the reasons to believe that it was indeed a hideaway, why not just assume that it was in fact not somewhere obvious?

Very possible. But that still means that it's in sight of something worth watching. And Martin's also shown us that people in his books get stumbled upon whether they are looked for or not. And that the area is not always calm. And that a war was on--making things less calm.

The longer they are there in one place, the more likely something goes wrong. So far, in Martinlandia, the best way to hide a Stark maid is in plain sight while in disguise. Either on the move or in a castle. Surrounded by allies--only a few of whom know the truth.

Might be Martin gave us those precedents--let alone Sansa's only  temporary stay in a bleak, unnamed tower before going to a castle with white towers--for a reason. 

[Kingmonkey]

1 hour ago, Sly Wren said:

Very possible. But that still means that it's in sight of something worth watching.

Or something that was worth watching a hundred years previously.

1 hour ago, Sly Wren said:

And Martin's also shown us that people in his books get stumbled upon whether they are looked for or not. And that the area is not always calm. And that a war was on--making things less calm.

Generally whilst on roads. You do expect to see other travellers when you're on a road. Our examples of people being found while hiding out in the wilderness are more limited. What's more, that's a sample that is selected for by the very nature of the beast. Someone being stumbled upon is an event, someone not being stumbled upon is the lack of an event. We tend to hear about events rather than lacks of events.

1 hour ago, Sly Wren said:

The longer they are there in one place, the more likely something goes wrong. So far, in Martinlandia, the best way to hide a Stark maid is in plain sight while in disguise. Either on the move or in a castle. Surrounded by allies--only a few of whom know the truth.

Might be Martin gave us those precedents--let alone Sansa's only  temporary stay in a bleak, unnamed tower before going to a castle with white towers--for a reason. 

Well aaaactually... it turns out that if you want to hide a Stark maid for a year or so whilst getting her pregnant, the precedent is you hide her in one place, out of sight, and not that far from where there is plenty of traffic. The Stark maid that Bael of the Blue Roses kidnapped was not on the move, or surrounded by Bael's allies, or in disguise in plain sight. In a castle, kind of. The crypts beneath a castle, anyway. Beneath an old abandoned tower...