Skinchanger Zombies: Jon, the Last Hero, and Coldhands

[Pain killer Jane]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Yeah, and Mance of course.

Also, importantly the virtual cage (skinchanging Hodor or other giant) Bran exchanges for the wicker basket.

Yup. Of this Human Bondage and the mortal coil, etc. etc. 

Btw skinchanging as many has pointed out is wearing leather in Bran's case wearing human leather or the Blind God Followers and their hair shirts. The process for tanning hide calls for urine (and lime) to make the hide soft. 

[ravenous reader]

Just now, Pain killer Jane said:

The process for tanning hide calls for urine (and lime) to make the hide soft. 

[Pain killer Jane]

Just now, ravenous reader said:

 (Or the fart is the thunder, the piss the lightning/nectar...)  The 'golden shower' that impregnated Danae! 

Could be as the golden shower was Zeus the lord of lightning. 

[LmL]

Piss as honey and lightning is referring to the mead of poetry, which is in some sense the piss of the gods, isn't that right @Blue Tiger?

 

[Pain killer Jane]

29 minutes ago, LmL said:

 The moon blood flood is like burnt blood or curdled moon milk, exactly. In AGOT there is one appearance of pale red firemilk, which is used to treat Shaggy's bite of Luwin.

...the moon made of cheese?

[Bluetiger]

By the way, do you think that Pate's death is yet another 'moon maiden's' death? 

Quote

"To be sure." The coin appeared. The alchemist made it walk across his knuckles, the way he had when Rosey brought the two of them together. In the morning light the dragon glittered as it moved, and gave the alchemist's fingers a golden glow.

Pate grabbed it from his hand. The gold felt warm against his palm. He brought it to his mouth and bit down on it the way he'd seen men do. If truth be told, he wasn't sure what gold should taste like, but he did not want to look a fool.

(...)

He was halfway down the alley when the cobblestones began to move beneath his feet. The stones are slick and wet, he thought, but that was not it. He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. "What's happening?" he said. His legs had turned to water. "I don't understand."

"And never will," a voice said sadly.

The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too.

His last thought was of Rosey.

It's all there dragon coin (comet) comes into Pate's (it seems sometimes 'pate' means head/mind - at least JRRT used this word that way) mouth and then he falls down to cobble, waves of night appear and even cry (of anguish and extasy).

[I was reading list of rare and archaic words JRRT used, and there are few interesting wordplays GRRM might have done:

• baldric - a shoulder-belt for carrying horns, swords, etc (ELDRIC + BALDR)
• benighted - in, or overtaken by, darkness ( to be knighted? - Gregor ceratainly was benighted)
• damask - steel and iron specially welded to make a serpentine pattern (Damascus Steel + Valyrian dragonsteel)
• darkling - dark (poetical) - DARKLYN
• deem - consider, conclude:

Quote

. "I have been glancing over the names you put forward to take your place as Commander of the City Watch."

"Good men. Fine men. Any of the six will do, but I'd choose Allar Deem. My right arm. Good good man. Loyal. Pick him and you won't be sorry. If he pleases the king."

"To be sure." Tyrion took a small sip of his own wine. "I had been considering Ser Jacelyn Bywater. He's been captain on the Mud Gate for three years, and he served with valor during Balon Greyjoy's Rebellion. King Robert knighted him at Pyke. And yet his name does not appear on your list."

• fell - merciless, terrifying
• fell₂ - animal's hide
• fell₃ - moorland hill - all three fit Winterfell perfectly

• fey -The old senses were ‘fated, approaching death; presaging death’. It seems very unlikely that the later sense ‘possessing or displaying magical, fairylike, or unearthly qualities’ (O.E.D. Supplement) was intended. - FEY - FREY
• flammifer - in Latin, flammifer means "fiery", but Tolkien's usage is likely meant to suggest "flame-bearer", as a reference to the blazing Silmaril borne by Eärendil.
• game - crippled (GAME of Thrones, it's all about Bran?)
• garth - an enclosed garden or yard 
• harbour - succor, assistance - Manderly will surely harbour Rickon and Davos
• hoar - grey- or white-haired (HOARE)
• leech - healer - Qyburn is Roose's leech
• nightshade - probably simply "darkness" (the literal use of this word appears to be unique to Tolkien - in * historical English, it is only used figuratively as the name of a poisonous plant) - essence of nightshade
• nuncle (Hobbits and Asha use it)
• pate - head, mind
• rede - counsel, advice; plan; redes counsels - HOUSE REED, especially Bran's helper Jojen
• rick - a stack, especially of hay - RICKON is a STRAW MAN as well...
• yammer - wail, weep, cry - YAMMER OF WATERS - the cry of anguish and extasy... There's Wailing Tower of Harrenhal... 

Quote

The Wailing Tower is one of the towers of Harrenhal. It receives its name from the wailing noise that emanates from it when the wind blows from the north. These cracks formed when the stones fissured due to the intense heat of dragonbreath in the burning of Harrenhal during Aegon's Conquest. The common held belief among the inhabitants of the castle is that it is the cries of the long dead Harren the Black and his sons, though they died in Kingspyre Tower.

• http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Uncommon_words

+ septon Cellador is reference to 'cellar door' - the most beautiful English word, according to JRRT 

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Cellar_door

[LmL]

@ravenous reader, I was looking for Bran burning or Bran wicker man quotes, specifically

[Bluetiger]

10 minutes ago, LmL said:

Piss as honey and lightning is referring to the mead of poetry, which is in some sense the piss of the gods, isn't that right @Blue Tiger?

 

It's more like the spittle of gods, from Wikipedia:

After the Æsir-Vanir War, the gods sealed the truce they had just concluded by spitting in a vat. To keep a symbol of this truce, they created from their spittle a man named Kvasir. He was so wise that there were no questions he could not answer. He travelled around the world to give knowledge to mankind. One day, he visited the dwarves Fjalar and Galar. They killed him and poured his blood into two vats and a pot called Boðn, Són and Óðrerir. They mixed his blood with honey, thus creating a mead which made anybody who drank it a "poet or scholar" ("skáld eða frœðamaðr"). The dwarves explained to the gods that Kvasir had suffocated in intelligence.

Tyrion's order to kill Symon and put him into 'singer's stew' pot might be reference this myth...

[LmL]

7 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

By the way, do you think that Pate's death is yet another 'moon maiden's' death? 

Quote

"To be sure." The coin appeared. The alchemist made it walk across his knuckles, the way he had when Rosey brought the two of them together. In the morning light the dragon glittered as it moved, and gave the alchemist's fingers a golden glow.

Pate grabbed it from his hand. The gold felt warm against his palm. He brought it to his mouth and bit down on it the way he'd seen men do. If truth be told, he wasn't sure what gold should taste like, but he did not want to look a fool.

(...)

He was halfway down the alley when the cobblestones began to move beneath his feet. The stones are slick and wet, he thought, but that was not it. He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. "What's happening?" he said. His legs had turned to water. "I don't understand."

"And never will," a voice said sadly.

The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too.

His last thought was of Rosey.

It's all there dragon coin (comet) comes into Pate's (it seems sometimes 'pate' means head/mind - at least JRRT used this word that way) mouth and then he falls down to cobble, waves of night appear and even cry (of anguish and extasy).

Yes, Pate is being fed the dragon, much like moon maiden Dany eating the horse heart.  The golden / fiery hand makes an appearance, and you missed the hammering heart of the moon maiden - the hart of a fallen star which becomes the hammer of the waters.

8 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

rick - a stack, especially of hay - RICKON is a STRAW MAN as well...

oooh nice one!

[Pain killer Jane]

4 minutes ago, LmL said:

Piss as honey and lightning is referring to the mead of poetry

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"It was a relief to see that horn burn, my lord," Edd said. "Just last night I dreamt I was pissing off the Wall when someone decided to give the horn a toot. Not that I'm complaining. It was better than my old dream, where Harma Dogshead was feeding me to her pigs."

-Jon III, aDwD

"I'd not call it sleeping. The ground was hard, the rushes ill-smelling, and my brothers snore frightfully. Speak of bears if you will, none ever growled so fierce as Brown Bernarr. I was warm, though. Some dogs crawled atop me during the night. My cloak was almost dry when one of them pissed in it. Or perhaps it was Brown Bernarr. Have you noticed that the rain stopped the instant I had a roof above me? It will start again now that I'm back out. Gods and dogs alike delight to piss on me."

-Jon III, aCoK

He sighed as his piss arced out, yellow and steaming. "We ride at first light, did you hear? Sun or snow, the Old Bear tells me."

-Sam II, aSoS

Poor Edd.

Isn't the origin of Honeymoon rooted in the custom of supplying meat and mead to a newlywed couple for a period of time?

[Bluetiger]

Speaking of moons:

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Draconic month

Sometimes written 'draconitic' month, and also called the nodical month. The orbit of the moon lies in a plane that is tilted with respect to the plane of the ecliptic at aninclination of about 5.3°. The line of intersection of these planes passes through the two points where the moon's orbit crosses the plane of the ecliptic: the ascending node, when the moon's path crosses the ecliptic as the moon moves into the northern celestial hemisphere and descending node when the moon's path crosses the ecliptic as the moon moves into the southern celestial hemisphere. The draconic or nodical month is the average interval between two successive transits of the moon through the same node. Because of the torque exerted by the sun's gravity on the angular momentum of the Earth-Moon couple, the plane of the moon's orbit gradually rotates westward, which means the nodes gradually rotate around the earth. As a result, the time it takes the moon to return to the same node is shorter than a sidereal month. It lasts27.212220 days (27 d 5 h 5 min 35.8 s). The plane of the moon's orbit precesses 360° in about 6,793 days (18.6 years).

A solar or lunar eclipse is possible only when the moon is at or near the point where its orbit crosses the ecliptic plane i.e. it is at or near one of the nodes. The name "draconic" refers to a mythical dragon, said to live in the nodes and eat the sun or moon during an eclipse.

A draconic month is shorter than a sidereal month because the nodes move in the opposite direction to that in which the Moon is orbiting the Earth, one revolution in 18.6 years. Therefore, the Moon returns to the same node slightly earlier than it returns to the same star.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_month?wprov=sfla1)

 

[Pain killer Jane]

32 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

By the way, do you think that Pate's death is yet another 'moon maiden's' death?

I always took the word to be pah-tey as in the meat paste just because most of the Pates seem to die horribly and killed by Lannisters probably as in universe jokey revenge on Pate of Longleaf, a squire that killed Jason Lannister.

Edit: The most famous pate is Pate de foie gras or pate of fat goose liver. That thing that is rich in iron and in ancient times the seat of anger, jealousy and greed. But in other cultures, it was the seat of courage. (The cowardly lion killing a Pate because he needed courage). We have Spotted Pate that lives in songs being brave and having good luck. 

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"Lord Snow," said Cotter Pyke, "if you muck this up, I'm going to rip your liver out and eat it raw with onions."

-Jon XII, aSoS

 "Well done," Ser Jorah told him, and Brown Ben tossed the eunuch a ripe plum and said, "A sweet fruit for a sweet fight." Even her Dothraki handmaids had words of praise. "We would braid your hair and hang a bell in it, Strong Belwas," said Jhiqui, "but you have no hair to braid."

"Strong Belwas needs no tinkly bells." The eunuch ate Brown Ben's plum in four big bites and tossed aside the stone. "Strong Belwas needs liver and onions."

-Dany V, aSoS

Some songs said the Skaggs were cannibals; supposedly their warriors ate the hearts and livers of the men they slew.

-Sam II,aFfC

"Whitebeard." Belwas smiled. "Where is liver and onions? Strong Belwas is not so strong as before, he must eat, get big again.

-The Queen's Hand, aDwD

 

And it was the organ that Prometheus had pecked out every day by an eagle as punishment for giving fire to man. 

 

[Pain killer Jane]

31 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

darkling - dark (poetical) - DARKLYN

Quote

Above its door, seven wooden swords swung beneath an iron spike. The whitewash that covered them was cracked and peeling, but Brienne knew their meaning. They stood for the seven sons of Darklyn who had worn the white cloaks of the Kingsguard. No other house in all the realm could claim as many. They were the glory of their House. And now they are a sign above an inn.

-Brienne II, aFfC

 

[ravenous reader]

1 minute ago, Pain killer Jane said:

The whitewash that covered them was cracked and peeling, but Brienne knew their meaning.

36 minutes ago, LmL said:

Piss as honey and lightning is referring to the mead of poetry, which is in some sense the piss of the gods, isn't that right @Blue Tiger?

Odin was a god of poetry as well as war!

This site is also good for a brief summary:

http://norse-mythology.org/tales/the-mead-of-poetry/

30 minutes ago, Blue Tiger said:

• yammer - wail, weep, cry - YAMMER OF WATERS - the cry of anguish and extasy... There's Wailing Tower of Harrenhal... 

Quote

The Wailing Tower is one of the towers of Harrenhal. It receives its name from the wailing noise that emanates from it when the wind blows from the north. These cracks formed when the stones fissured due to the intense heat of dragonbreath in the burning of Harrenhal during Aegon's Conquest. The common held belief among the inhabitants of the castle is that it is the cries of the long dead Harren the Black and his sons, though they died in Kingspyre Tower.

I think it may also be a reference to the 'wailing wall' or Western Wall in Jerusalem -- as is the Wall.  @Frey family reunion started discussing possible religious references around the Temple Mount, which are quite interesting to consider.  There's also this 'western wall' which GRRM takes pains to note, associated with a garden in which there's a fruit tree, of which Dany partakes (see quote to follow).  Unlike Stannis, she dares to eat the peach!

The other garden near the actual Western Wall of import is the Garden of Gethsemane which @Pain killer Jane has previously discussed, where Christ spent his last night before crucifixion, with Christ as the bread and the life and the wine, Last Supper and rite of Holy Communion ('original sin' and redemption theme).

Quote

Clash of Kings - Daenerys I

Irri broke her reverie to tell her that Ser Jorah Mormont was outside, awaiting her pleasure. "Send him in," Dany commanded, sand-scrubbed skin tingling. She wrapped herself in the lionskin. The hrakkar had been much bigger than Dany, so the pelt covered everything that wanted covering.

"I've brought you a peach," Ser Jorah said, kneeling. It was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.

Along these lines, I had an interesting conversation with @YOVMO, who informed me that the Western Wall (we were positing as an analog for the Wall) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is considered to be one of the few places where the connection or gate between heaven and earth has been left open, so the prayers of the faithful will be more effectively transmitted to and heard by God at that site.  That's why those who pray there place notes in the cracks of the wall.

Geologically-speaking, I can also tell you that Jerusalem lies on the western lip of a major fissure or fault line in the earth's crust -- the Great Rift Valley--  that stretches all the way down into Africa with Mozambique as its southern extension, so the idea of a 'seam' or 'well' of fire as well as water representing a gateway to the gods might have become related to holiness in the human imagination.  

Associated with the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount, there is the 'Well of Souls,' who can also be heard calling to God, awaiting judgment:

Quote

From wikipedia:

The Well of Souls (Arabic: بئر الأرواح‎‎ Bir al-Arwah; sometimes translated Pit of Souls, Cave of Spirits, or Well of Spirits in Islam), also known as the Holy of Holies (in Christianity),[1] is a partly natural, partly man-made cave located inside the Foundation Stone under the Dome of the Rock shrine in Jerusalem.[2] The name Well of Souls derives from a medieval Islamic legend that at this place the spirits of the dead can be heard awaiting Judgment Day[3] (The name "Well of Souls" has also been applied more narrowly to a depression in the floor of this cave and to a hypothetical chamber that may exist beneath the floor.)

For Christians, the site is known as the Holy of Holies (alluding to the former inner sanctuary within the Temple in Jerusalem) and is venerated as a possible site of the annunciation of John the Baptist, since Luke says it happened in the Temple.[1] The site has never been subject to an archeological investigation and political and diplomatic sensitivities preclude this for the foreseeable future.

 

 

[Pain killer Jane]

8 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

I think it may also be a reference to the 'wailing wall' or Western Wall in Jerusalem -- as is the Wall.  @Frey family reunion started discussing possible religious references around the Temple Mount, which are quite interesting to consider.  There's also this 'western wall' which GRRM takes pains to note, associated with a garden in which there's a fruit tree, of which Dany partakes (see quote to follow).  Unlike Stannis, she dares to eat the peach!

The other garden near the actual Western Wall of import is the Garden of Gethsemane which @Pain killer Jane has previously discussed, where Christ spent his last night before crucifixion, with Christ as the bread and the life and the wine, Last Supper and rite of Holy Communion ('original sin' and redemption theme).

Quote

Clash of Kings - Daenerys I

Irri broke her reverie to tell her that Ser Jorah Mormont was outside, awaiting her pleasure. "Send him in," Dany commanded, sand-scrubbed skin tingling. She wrapped herself in the lionskin. The hrakkar had been much bigger than Dany, so the pelt covered everything that wanted covering.

"I've brought you a peach," Ser Jorah said, kneeling. It was so small she could almost hide it in her palm, and overripe too, but when she took the first bite, the flesh was so sweet she almost cried. She ate it slowly, savoring every mouthful, while Ser Jorah told her of the tree it had been plucked from, in a garden near the western wall.

Along these lines, I had an interesting conversation with @YOVMO, who informed me that the Western Wall (we were positing as an analog for the Wall) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem is considered to be one of the few places where the connection or gate between heaven and earth has been left open, so the prayers of the faithful will be more effectively transmitted to and heard by God at that site.  That's why those who pray there place notes in the cracks of the wall.

Geologically-speaking, I can also tell you that Jerusalem lies on the western lip of a major fissure or fault line in the earth's crust -- the Great Rift Valley--  that stretches all the way down into Africa with Mozambique as its southern extension, so the idea of a 'seam' or 'well' of fire as well as water representing a gateway to the gods might have become related to holiness in the human imagination.  

Associated with the Dome of the Rock on the Temple Mount, there is the 'Well of Souls,' who can also be heard calling to God, awaiting judgment:

Quote

From wikipedia:

The Well of Souls (Arabic: بئر الأرواح‎‎ Bir al-Arwah; sometimes translated Pit of Souls, Cave of Spirits, or Well of Spirits in Islam), also known as the Holy of Holies (in Christianity),[1] is a partly natural, partly man-made cave located inside the Foundation Stone under the Dome of the Rock shrine in Jerusalem.[2] The name Well of Souls derives from a medieval Islamic legend that at this place the spirits of the dead can be heard awaiting Judgment Day[3] (The name "Well of Souls" has also been applied more narrowly to a depression in the floor of this cave and to a hypothetical chamber that may exist beneath the floor.)

For Christians, the site is known as the Holy of Holies (alluding to the former inner sanctuary within the Temple in Jerusalem) and is venerated as a possible site of the annunciation of John the Baptist, since Luke says it happened in the Temple.[1] The site has never been subject to an archeological investigation and political and diplomatic sensitivities preclude this for the foreseeable future.

 

That is interesting since the notes being placed in the wall can be akin as the pieces of cloth tied to the branches of the Hanging Tree. 

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'If I cannot bend the will of Heaven, I shall move Hell."

Freud used the phrase in the beginning of his The Interpretation of Dreams. He suggested an interpretation of ancient Greek myth, that the underworld’s river of Hell like his idea of the unconscious mind might well up from beneath and flood our dreams.

This is in reference to the river Acheron where the dead are ferried into Hades. 

[ravenous reader]

15 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

That is interesting since the notes being placed in the wall can be akin as the pieces of cloth tied to the branches of the Hanging Tree. 

Indeed.  The 'wishing well' or 'wishing tree' concept (I hope you now remember your wonderful thoughts surrounding that!  ).  Etymologically, in addition to being related to 'waves' and the idea of a 'wellspring', the word 'well' is also related to the word 'will' (in the sense of willing on the future, intentionality, etc.), reflecting how the three Norns in the Well of Urd of Norse mythology relate the three main tenses of time to one another -- namely Urd (past, source), Verdandi (present, present continuous...'am becoming'), and Skuld (future, including the idea of a cumulative 'karmic' debt to be paid), the present and future feeding back on themselves and the past, just as the past feeds them.  Time as non-linear, as Bloodraven outlines for Bran.

Quote

Quote

'If I cannot bend the will of Heaven, I shall move Hell."

Freud used the phrase in the beginning of his The Interpretation of Dreams. He suggested an interpretation of ancient Greek myth, that the underworld’s river of Hell like his idea of the unconscious mind might well up from beneath and flood our dreams.

This is in reference to the river Acheron where the dead are ferried into Hades. 

Great article!  

[Pain killer Jane]

32 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Indeed.  The 'wishing well' or 'wishing tree' concept (I hope you now remember your wonderful thoughts surrounding that!  ).

Yes I do since you showed me. I am glad my comment is helping in interpretation. 

 

33 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Quote

Quote

'If I cannot bend the will of Heaven, I shall move Hell."

Freud used the phrase in the beginning of his The Interpretation of Dreams. He suggested an interpretation of ancient Greek myth, that the underworld’s river of Hell like his idea of the unconscious mind might well up from beneath and flood our dreams.

This is in reference to the river Acheron where the dead are ferried into Hades. 

Great article!  

The article put me in mind of The Passion according to G.H. by Clarice Lispector.

"Three thousand years ago I went astray, and what was left were phonetic fragments of me. I'm blinder than before. I saw, I did. I saw, and was frightened by the brute truth of a world whose greatest horror is that it is so alive that, in admitting I'm as alive ass it is-and my worst discovery is that I'm as alive as it is- I shall have to heighten my consciousness of exterior life until it becomes a crime against my personal life. 

For my previous profound morality-my morality was the desire to understand and, since I didn't, I arranged things, this was only yesterday and now I've discovered that I was always profoundly moral: I only admitted the purpose-for my previous profound morality, having discovered that I'm crudely alive as that crude light I learned yesterday, for that morality of mine, the hard glory of being alive is the horror. Before I lived in the humanized world, but did something purely alive collapse the morality I had?

Because a world fully alive has the power of a Hell." 

[Pain killer Jane]

16 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Indeed.  The 'wishing well' or 'wishing tree' concept (I hope you now remember your wonderful thoughts surrounding that!  ).  Etymologically, in addition to being related to 'waves' and the idea of a 'wellspring', the word 'well' is also related to the word 'will' (in the sense of willing on the future, intentionality, etc.), reflecting how the three Norns in the Well of Urd of Norse mythology relate the three main tenses of time to one another -- namely Urd (past, source), Verdandi (present, present continuous...'am becoming'), and Skuld (future, including the idea of a cumulative 'karmic' debt to be paid), the present and future feeding back on themselves and the past, just as the past feeds them.  Time as non-linear, as Bloodraven outlines for Bran.

 

I completely forgot about the custom of burying a sacrifice at the foundations of a new construction. I think you are right on a member of Watch being killed as a sacrifice. The 79 sentinels could be sacrifices to the wall. And we have a twisted version of the sacrifice in Maegor killing the architects and builders of the Red Keep.

[Bluetiger]

6 minutes ago, Pain killer Jane said:

I completely forgot about the custom of burying a sacrifice at the foundations of a new construction. I think you are right on a member of Watch being killed as a sacrifice. The 79 sentinels could be sacrifices to the wall. And we have a twisted version of the sacrifice in Maegor killing the architects and builders of the Red Keep.

And Roose's 'sacrifice' at rebuilt Winterfell:

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Plumes of grey smoke snaked up from the rebuilt kitchens and reroofed barracks keep. The battlements and crenellations were crowned with snow and hung with icicles. All the color had been leached from Winterfell until only grey and white remained. The Stark colors. Theon did not know whether he ought to find that ominous or reassuring. Even the sky was grey. Grey and grey and greyer. The whole world grey, everywhere you look, everything grey except the eyes of the bride. The eyes of the bride were brown. Big and brown and full of fear. It was not right that she should look to him for rescue. What had she been thinking, that he would whistle up a winged horse and fly her out of here, like some hero in the stories she and Sansa used to love? He could not even help himself. Reek, Reek, it rhymes with meek.

All about the yard, dead men hung half-frozen at the end of hempen ropes, swollen faces white with hoarfrost. Winterfell had been crawling with squatters when Bolton's van had reached the castle. More than two dozen had been driven at spearpoint from the nests they had made amongst the castle's half-ruined keeps and towers. The boldest and most truculent had been hanged, the rest put to work. Serve well, Lord Bolton told them, and he would be merciful. Stone and timber were plentiful with the wolfswood so close at hand. Stout new gates had gone up first, to replace those that had been burned. Then the collapsed roof of the Great Hall had been cleared away and a new one raised hurriedly in its stead. When the work was done, Lord Bolton hanged the workers. True to his word, he showed them mercy and did not flay a one.

(ADWD, The Prince of Winterfell)

Half-frozen men, two dozen, nests (evoking crows of the Night's Watch) and latter hanging...

Reek's (and later Theon's) chapters in Dance are full of what LmL calls 'Last Hero math':
 

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Snow slid from Ser Hosteen's cloaks as he stalked toward the high table, his steps ringing against the floor. A dozen Frey knights and men-at-arms entered behind him. One was a boy Theon knew—Big Walder, the little one, fox-faced and skinny as a stick. His chest and arms and cloak were spattered with blood.

 

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Ser Hosteen slammed his foot into the tabletop, knocking it off its trestles, back into Lord Wyman's swollen belly. Cups and platters flew, sausages scattered everywhere, and a dozen Manderly men came cursing to their feet. Some grabbed up knives, platters, flagons, anything that might serve as a weapon.

 

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It took two score Dreadfort spearmen to part the combatants and put an end to the carnage. By that time six White Harbor men and two Freys lay dead upon the floor. A dozen more were wounded and one of the Bastard's Boys, Luton, was dying noisily, crying for his mother as he tried to shove a fistful of slimy entrails back through a gaping belly wound. Lord Ramsay silenced him, yanking a spear from one of Steelshanks's men and driving it down through Luton's chest. Even then the rafters still rang with shouts and prayers and curses, the shrieks of terrified horses and the growls of Ramsay's bitches. Steelshanks Walton had to slam the butt of his spear against the floor a dozen times before the hall quieted enough for Roose Bolton to be heard.

 

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As he leaned up against a merlon, breathing hard, Theon could hear the shouting from below, where Frenya was fighting half a dozen guardsmen in the snow. "Which way?" he shouted at Holly. "Where do we go now? How do we get out?"

Manderly and Frey... both southron houses who came North (like Garth's descendant Brandon of the Bloody Blade, First King, possibly Garth (just take a look at sigil of House Flint - grey (dead) Gardener green hand)

Last week I've noticed that all Night King's candidates are connected to greenseers or skinchaning:

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I'm thinking about the Night's King... Is it possible that his legend is twisted version of Bloodstone Emperor and his tiger-woman bride? I've looked at all houses from which he might have came and they have one thing in common - skinchanging or green men connection.

Barrow Kings - you've explored their connection to Garth in last essay Starks - wargs, founded by Garth's descendant

Umbers - chained giant implies that his will is being bent by someone - a skinchanger?

Norreys - their sigil is 'Six green thistles, 3-2-1, on yellow'

Woodfoots of Bear Island - 'wood' in name Magnar of Skagos - 'A green lobster on white, holding a black harpoon in its claws' - a greenseer prepare to shoot this harpoon at the moon?

Flints (of the mountains) - we don't know the sigil of this branch, but three others have greenseer references:

Extinct 'original' Flints, who once were kings... Their seat was Breakstone Hill

Flints of Widow's Watch - 'A blue field strewn with whitecaps, on a yellow chief with crested line a pair of blue eyes' and words 'Ever Vigilant'

Flints of Flint's Finger - 'A grey stone hand upon a white inverted pall on paly black and grey' - wow... This is sigil of House Greenhand, but corrupted - hand is not green but grey, implying King of Winter and Death, not god of fertility like Garth... And they live close to the Barrowlands (Barrow King's curse)... Corrupted greenseers who bring winter

****

From A Sword of Swords, Bran IV:

As the sun began to set the shadows of the towers lengthened and the wind blew harder, sending gusts of dry dead leaves rattling through the yards. The gathering gloom put Bran in mind of another of Old Nan's stories, the tale of Night's King. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear." A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well.

He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden.

Althought all the records of his name were suppodedly destroyed, many theories about his identity arose:

 

From The World of Ice and Fire:

 

Yet over the thousands of years of its existence as the chief seat of the Watch, the Nightfort has accrued many legends of its own, some of which have been recounted in Archmaester Harmune's Watchers on the Wall. The oldest of these tales concern the legendary Night'sKing, the thirteenth Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, who was alleged to have bedded a sorceress pale as a corpse and declared himself a king. For thirteen years the Night'sKing and his "corpse queen" ruled together, before King of Winter, Brandon the Breaker, (in alliance, it is said, with the King-Beyond-the-Wall, Joramun) brought them down. Thereafter, he obliterated the Night's King's very name from memory.

 

In the Citadel, the archmaesters largely dismiss these tales—though some allow that there may have been a Lord Commander who attempted to carve out a kingdom for himself in the earliest days of the Watch. Some suggest that perhaps the corpse queen was a woman of the Barrowlands, a daughter of the Barrow King who was then a power in his own right, and oft associated with graves. The Night's King has been said to have been variously a Bolton, a Woodfoot, an Umber, a Flint, a Norrey, or even a Stark, depending on where the tale is told. Like all tales, it takes on the attributes that make it most appealing to those who tell it.

 And...

 

From A Storm of Swords, Bran IV:

Some say he was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down." She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. "He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room."

No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark.

Let's sum up those propositions. So, Old Nan and Maester Yandel suggest that Night's King was member of:

• House Bolton
• House Stark
• House Umber
• House Magnar
• House Flint
• House Norrey
• House Woodfoot
• His bride might have been a daughter of Barrow King - House Dustin claims their descent to him

Now, let's look whether those houses have anything in common - than we will find the very core of Night's King legend, and the reason why member of specifically those seven houses is belived to have been the mythical monarch.

 

 

[Pain killer Jane]

1 minute ago, Blue Tiger said:

And Roose's 'sacrifice' at rebuilt Winterfell:

Half-frozen men, two dozen, nests (evoking crows of the Night's Watch) and latter hanging...

Nice catch! Didn't one of the Hightower Kings use the Ironborn to build the walls around Oldtown?