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What is the role of Gendry?

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6 minutes ago, Newstar said:

Saying that they have "separate futures," but whether they ever meet up again is something the reader will have to keep reading to find out, is pretty unambiguous IMO.

That was in 2012, and in 2016 he confirmed there's no need to keep reading, they will meet again. 

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6 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

That was in 2012, and in 2016 he confirmed there's no need to keep reading, they will meet again. 

Sure, but meeting again =/= ending up together, and in 2012 he confirmed that Gendry and Arya have separate futures.

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One explanation is that they are combining him with Edric Storm to have someone to rule the Stormlands post-apocalyptic invasion by ice zombies. That said, Benioff and Weiss do not seem overly concerned with giving us explanations as who will be ruling the individual seven kingdoms after the war except in the case of the North (see the Reach, the Riverlands and Dorne). In fact, I doubt Martin had that completely worked out when he outlined the end of the series for them, so they probably do not know. 

So the best guess here is that Gendry is simply pointless.  

 

 

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6 hours ago, Newstar said:

Sure, but meeting again =/= ending up together, and in 2012 he confirmed that Gendry and Arya have separate futures.

If you actually payed close attention tho this thread you would realise we are speculating based on the great amount of references that actually favour this endgame. Of course, nobody knows until the finale of s8 airs. The hearsay of separate futures, even if true, ==/== separate endgames, as you might also understand. And the confirmation from a Jon/Arya fan that George said "meeting again"+"still being too young" doesn't opt for the "isn't happening, sorry" version you state, but more to the contrary, if anything.

I'd be more concerned about couples who have not ever met in the books or that had no first kiss in the show and had sex a few moments before the Wall was being destroyed. Of course, I won't say "it's not happening 100%" since I don't know, and I won't also say "meltdowns are never pretty" since that's not my style. 

That's the end of my discussion with you about this topic.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I think both in the show and in the books, Gendry's supposed to be sigil free, just internalize and pick from his various shapeshifted identities what is necessary for his survival, but also become part of the wolf pack. It goes back to the featherbed song that George wrote for them: he proclaims himself a lord and offers a crown, while the maiden of the tree says "nah, I don't want a castle or a crown, let's run off into the woods." Which is exactly what we saw Nymeria do: "nah, no castle for me. I'm off with my pack into the woods."

I can definitely see this as a possible endgame sceneario, they referred to the scene as possible Arya's foreshadowing, maybe not in a conventional castle? (Although I could also the the castle thing as well)

"It’s even nicer that they don’t live happily ever after," Maisie Williams (Arya Stark) explained to Entertainment Weekly. "Nymeria has created her own world and created her own pack and isn’t ready to be Arya’s pet. To be someone’s pet would reverse everything she’s learned. So they almost just regard each other and go their separate ways."

The episode's writer, Bryan Cogman, agreed. "In the end, they’re both lone wolves," he told EW. "They can’t go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya too."

http://www.elle.com.au/culture/game-of-thrones-arya-stark-nymeria-meaning-13878

3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Show-Gendry was taken away from Arya instead, before the Hound catches her. Last he knew, Arya was going to be sold to RR, a castle that the Blackfish held for a while and that was peacefully surrendered to Jaime Lannister. He would know about the RW, but he has no reason to believe Sandor traveled with her for several months or that she was at the Twins and witness to the RW. He's more likely to believe she managed to escape and is making her way North to WF, especially after Jon managed to oust the Boltons. So, he's more likely to feel resentment against the Lannister but hopeful about Arya's fate and likely whereabouts, would want to get on the good side of the bastard-King in the North, her "brother", not just let Jon know he's on their side but that he has royal blood in his veins, and help protect the North from its greatest immediate threat: the army of the dead

 

Who is RR?

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Too bad they didn't do the forest lass song. I think the songs are more for characterization rather than a hard and fast this will happen sort of thing. The song can be extended to Lyanna and Sansa, too, there are hints of such things in their stories, too.

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51 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

I can definitely see this as a possible endgame sceneario, they referred to the scene as possible Arya's foreshadowing, maybe not in a conventional castle? (Although I could also the the castle thing as well)

"It’s even nicer that they don’t live happily ever after," Maisie Williams (Arya Stark) explained to Entertainment Weekly. "Nymeria has created her own world and created her own pack and isn’t ready to be Arya’s pet. To be someone’s pet would reverse everything she’s learned. So they almost just regard each other and go their separate ways."

The episode's writer, Bryan Cogman, agreed. "In the end, they’re both lone wolves," he told EW. "They can’t go back to the way things were. And that might be foreshadowing for Arya too."

http://www.elle.com.au/culture/game-of-thrones-arya-stark-nymeria-meaning-13878

Who is RR?

Yeah. It's good to go back to WF, join the pack again, but none of them remain children. Arya and Sansa are grown up now, independent and can take care of themselves. They don't even require a guardian anymore to stop them from squabbling. They can settle their differences on their own.

Mother-guardian Brienne was beaten in a training fight by Arya (well actually it was a tie), after admitting that she was supposed to look after both daughters. Sansa had her adoptive father Little Restraining Order offed and sent Brienne away, telling her she doesn't need a mother-guardian anymore. And then Brienne informs Arya's adoptive father Sandor that she's alive and can take care of herself now. And he's proud of Arya, saying he won't stand in Arya's way of whatever she wants.

So, they're a full grown pack, but they'll have to live their own life too and start their own pack. Sandor is all scrubbed up and gentled, accepted by Northerners, showed Cersei he's on the Stark side now. Gendry answered the "wolf call".

Yes, I meant Riverrun.

Edited by sweetsunray

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In the case of both Arya/Gendry and Sandor/Sansa, it sticks out to me that although Operation Wight Hunt™ presented the perfect opportunity for some much-needed hinting toward either pairing, no such hints were laid.

It would have been pretty simple for Jon to discuss either of his sisters with the "love interest" in question, ie Gendry and Sandor. Instead, Jon and Gendry's shared connection with Arya was left by the wayside in favor of emphasizing the Ned/Robert friendship. In the case of Jon and Sandor, I don't remember them ever having a one on one chat.

If the show were building to a Gendry/Arya endgame, I'm positive Gendry would have at least mentioned her, there's no reason for him not to. 

As we've seen with both Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany, if the writers want to emphasize a burgeoning relationship, they'll do just that: have the characters discuss each other with third parties. It's basically their version of a neon sign. 

D&D have a pretty clear modus operandi when it comes to foreshadowing in their writing-- as heavy-handed and unsubtle as possible. If it isn't as blatant as characters making direct references to it over and over again (see: the build up to Cersei blowing up the Sept), it probably doesn't exist. 

Gendry having a meeting that emphasizes his connection to his birth father as well as him wielding a hammer to me is pretty good reason to believe he'll be Lord of Storm's End, if he makes it that far. It wouldn't be the first time the show hand-waved the practical considerations of a character ascending to power. 

Edited by Lysander

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Yyes se

Just now, sweetsunray said:

rs

Yeah. It's good to go back to WF, join the pack again, but none of them remain children. Arya and Sansa are grown up now, independent and can take care of themselves. They don't even require a guardian anymore to stop them from squabbling. They can settle their differences on their own.

Mother-guardian Brienne was beaten in a training fight by Arya (well actually it was a tie), after admitting that she was supposed to look after both daughters. Sansa had her adoptive father Little Restraining Order offed and sent Brienne away, telling her she doesn't need a mother-guardian anymore. And then Brienne informs Arya's adoptive father Sandor that she's alive and can take care of herself now. And he's proud of Arya, saying he won't stand in Arya's way of whatever she wants.

So, they're a full grown pack, but they'll have to live their own life too and start their own pack. Sandor is all scrubbed up and gentled, accepted by Northerners, showed Cersei he's on the Stark side now. Gendry answered the "wolf call".

Yes, I meant Riverrun.

yes season seven established that the Stark sisters are free now and can take her of themselves. Sansa doesn't need Brienne and at the same time as you reminded us, Arya is totally capable of even beating Brienne and she is proud of Arya!

at the same time.....that frees Brienne of her "oath" to the sisters (not that she is not part of the Stark side) but she is no longer need as a nanny. Sansa conveniently tells Bri that Jaime treated her honorably so that leaves the three women to write the Next chapter of their lives on their own.

as you mentioned...Gendry answers the wolf call (I liked that Word!) and he is looking for new companions, people to be trusted or a Family. That.....reminds us of Arya. Sandor has bonded with Jon as well but he is proud of Arya as he sees he doesn't have to take care of her anymore....so that leaves him to return to wf in good terms and see the ginger.

finally...after seven seasons....Jaime doesn't believe Cersei anymore. He doesnt love her.doesn't trust her. That reminds us of how quickly he actually trusted Brienne. This time he won't let her go away again.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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Here are some quotes of interviews by Joe Dempsie about Gendry:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/14/arts/television/gendry-game-of-thrones.html?mcubz=1

 

Quote

 

Did you get enough time to hit the gym for Gendry? When did you find out you were coming back?

Eighteen months ago. It’s strange, because it’s been a fairly long process, and I wasn’t expecting to get the call, anyway. I think as the years go on, even if they had planned to bring the character back at some point, you just start getting work elsewhere. This season, they said: “We’ll give you a head’s up. You might have a shirtless scene.” So I thought: “O.K., they’re giving me plenty of time to get in shape. How big do you want me to be?” I did hit the gym to prep, for months, and then there wasn’t a shirtless scene! It was completely unnecessary. It was the first time in my career where I’ve been like, “You’d better put a gratuitous shirtless scene in one of these scripts or I’m going to lose my mind.”

[...]

Davos instructs Gendry not to tell anyone about his lineage, but he does it anyway. Why do you think Gendry tells Jon Snow the truth?

I genuinely laughed out loud when I read that scene for the first time. Gendry felt a connection with Jon Snow because they have a shared experience of growing up as bastards. I think he’s kind of proud of his heritage, he enjoys it and he wants to share it

[...]

But this has been the perfect route through the series, and probably the safest route — to spend three years out while a section of the fan base has held a torch for Gendry and kept his spirit alive, to stay in the forefront of people’s minds, and then to come back just as it’s reaching the climax, which I always hoped I’d be a part of. We all just want to be involved in one way, shape or form with the endgame. And what that means, I don’t even want to hazard a guess. I just want to be there, so that I can say that I was.

 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/game-thrones-gendry-returns-joe-dempsie-interview-1029137

Quote

 

Did you always know that Gendry would come back eventually? Were there ever times when it wasn't clear that you would return to Game of Thrones?

At the end of season three, [showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] spoke to me and sort of said, "Look, your character is going to disappear for a while. We don't want you to panic. We're not trying to sack you. We like your performance and your character, but we have plans for him further on down the line." But there was never a definitive time scale put on it for me. In the intervening three years, I would always welcome the opportunity to come back to the show with open arms. I have so many friends on the show and have such a great time making it. I learn so much when I'm on that set. But with each passing year, it sort of goes a little bit further to the back of your mind. You just have to get on with your other stuff. I think their plan was for the character to disappear for long enough for people to finally start forgetting about him, so by the time they decided it was right for him to come back, it would be A) a surprise and B ) hopefully with some level of import.

[...]

They wanted to make sure I was available and secure me for the upcoming season. It was great. The irony, of course, is they wanted people to start forgetting about my character, which I'm sure many people did. If you venture onto social media, it felt like every passing year Gendry's absence became more conspicuous. The speculation became almost a fever-pitch, like the opposite had happened. That every passing year, the hysteria over the unanswered question became more and more palpable.

With Gendry back on the show, hopefully it's just a matter of time before he reunites with Arya. Is there any hope for such a reunion?

I would love it. Just purely because I love hanging out with and working with Maisie. I said years ago when we were shooting the show is that she's one of the best actors I've worked with. She's a phenomenal talent. It's been a joy to watch not only Maisie but all the youngsters on the show grow up with the show. Every year you come back and there's something a little bit different about them. They are very formative years, and it's been a joy to watch them grow into such lovely young adults. I would love to see Gendry and Arya meet again. They seemed to get on. It was a nice banter between the two of them. It would be great to revisit that. 

How have you viewed Arya and Gendry's relationship? Friends, or even almost like siblings? There are some fans out there who want to see them end up together...

Yeah, I think it's implied in the books that there might be a romantic element to the relationship, and in the books I think the characters are significantly closer in age. I know from my personal experience, when we were filming the earlier seasons and people would ask about that and talk about that, I would feel slightly uncomfortable. I'm acting alongside a child here. I was a 25-year-old man. I sometimes found that question a little hard to address and a little tricky to answer. As a result of the difference in age, I think one of the roles Gendry played in Arya's story was as him being an older guy who sort of awakens certain feelings in Arya for the first time as she's becoming a young woman. There's that scene in season two where I'm forging a sword — fairly inexplicably without a shirt on — and I think the idea was to convey the idea of Arya experiencing feelings she's never felt before. Everyone's had that at some point. Whether that means Gendry has a place in Arya's heart or vice versa, I have no idea. I think there's almost a sibling element, too. At that point in the story, Gendry really reminded her of her brothers and of home. That was the comfort with him. But it could go a number of ways. It would just be nice if they met again, wouldn't it? It's a pairing you wouldn't want to mess with. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Lysander said:

As we've seen with both Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany, if the writers want to emphasize a burgeoning relationship, they'll do just that: have the characters discuss each other with third parties. To drive home the idea that yes, there is indeed "something" happening there. 

D&D have a pretty clear modus operandi when it comes to foreshadowing in their writing-- as heavy-handed and unsubtle as possible. If it isn't as blatant as characters making direct references to it over and over again (see: the build up to Cersei blowing up the Sept), it probably doesn't exist. 

Actually nope! They are unsubtle many times in regards to couples! The last time I remember was when Jaime and Brienne met in the dragonpit in 7.7. Even if I am a proud Jaime/Brienne "shipper" it took me a rewatch and a friend's feedback until I saw then the huge parallels between Jaime and Brienne's conversation with the one he has with Cersei in the same epi. Her words, as usual, had an effect on him, a huge one! Oh...and I had not noticed it the first time!:D

They combine both things...they have also been subtle with Sansan in previous seasons and this season they were very direct with the gingers reference.

As for Gendrya same! Been unsubtle this season, they were direct in regards Arya's crush for him in s3, more than once :)

They have also been subtle with other themes....such as Jon SNow's parents/heritage: here...

Here's a good video about many times they've been subtle in this topic.

So nope, they actually ARE subtle sometimes.

Edited by Meera of Tarth

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2 hours ago, Faint said:

In fact, I doubt Martin had that completely worked out when he outlined the end of the series for them, so they probably do not know. 

So the best guess here is that Gendry is simply pointless.  

GRRM didn't know a lot of the minor characters' endgames when he laid out the endgames in 2013 to D&D. Gendry and Edric are sufficiently minor characters that it's a fair assumption that D&D are flying blind.

I agree that Gendry is simply pointless in the show.

 

23 minutes ago, Lysander said:

In the case of both Arya/Gendry and Sandor/Sansa, it sticks out to me that although Operation Wight Hunt™ presented the perfect opportunity for some much-needed hinting toward either pairing, no such hints were laid.

It would have been pretty simple for Jon to discuss either of his sisters with the "love interest" in question, ie Gendry and Sandor. Instead, Jon and Gendry's shared connection with Arya was left by the wayside in favor of emphasizing the Ned/Robert friendship. In the case of Jon and Sandor, I don't remember them ever having a one on one chat.

If the show were building to a Gendry/Arya endgame, I'm positive Gendry would have at least mentioned her, there's no reason for him not to. 

As we've seen with both Jaime/Brienne and Jon/Dany, if the writers want to emphasize a burgeoning relationship, they'll do just that: have the characters discuss each other with third parties. It's basically their version of a neon sign. 

D&D have a pretty clear modus operandi when it comes to foreshadowing in their writing-- as heavy-handed and unsubtle as possible. If it isn't as blatant as characters making direct references to it over and over again (see: the build up to Cersei blowing up the Sept), it probably doesn't exist. 

Yes, yes, yes. All of this: if it isn't blatant, it isn't there.

 

6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Here are some quotes of interviews by Joe Dempsie about Gendry:

Dempsie doesn't have the S8 scripts, so...

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Just now, Le Cygne said:

Too bad they didn't do the forest lass song. I think the songs are more for characterization rather than a hard and fast this will happen sort of thing. The song can be extended to Lyanna and Sansa, too, there are hints of such things in their stories, too.

yes that song is so beautiful. I think that's part of the magic of the books, though

I would have loved to listen to it in the show but we might get other surprises next season

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4 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Actually nope! They are unsubtle many times in regards to couples! The last time I remember was when Jaime and Brienne met in the dragonpit in 7.7. Even if I am a proud Jaime/Brienne "shipper" it took me a rewatch and a friend's feedback until I saw then the huge parallels between Jaime and Brienne's conversation with the one he has with Cersei in the same epi. Her words, as usual, had an effect on him, a huge one! Oh...and I had not noticed it the first time!:D

For every unsubtle moment there has been of Jaime/Brienne, there has been an equally blatant moment of ship teasing. See: Cersei spelling out that Brienne loves Jaime to her face in Season 4, and Bronn making some rather raunchy observations about how Jaime and Brienne look at each other in Season 6. "Like you wanna fuck her....", etc etc.

That's the level D&D are writing on. That's how they foreshadowing events on their own show. 

Jaime/Brienne don't need to have a swooning Hollywood moment every time they glance at each other because that's a relationship that's been spelled out as having sexual and romantic tension over and over again across every season of the show. One more moment is just one more onto the pile. The show has already went out of its way to have those characters discuss their feelings toward each other to third parties, multiple times. 

The same cannot be said of Gendry/Arya or Sandor/Sansa. Those characters have been thrust into situations in which it would make perfect sense to openly discuss their presumed romantic connection, only for no such dialogue to take place. If Gendry's connection with Arya is supposed to have a impact on the endgame, Season 7 in its entirety did very little to indicate so. In fact, it did nothing whatsoever to draw attention to that relationship.

Fact: It would have been just as easy to slip in some dialogue between Jon and Gendry about Arya as for them to include dialogue reminiscing about two men who have been dead for six seasons. Jon and Gendry did not talk about Arya whatsoever, so presumably there's nothing to foreshadow in that department. Fair enough. 

Quote

They combine both things...they have also been subtle with Sansan in previous seasons and this season they were very direct with the gingers reference.

If Sandor giving an offhand comment about how he hates gingers is supposed to be the lead up to a smoldering, Season 8 romance with a traumatized, dramatically-altered Sansa, then forgive me for being skeptical. Leaving the Hound out of it altogether, I would be astonished if Sansa has a romantic arc going forward, period. 

Quote

As for Gendrya same! Been unsubtle this season, they were direct in regards Arya's crush for him in s3, more than once :)

And if there's one thing I would never expect GRRM to pull, it's a Harry Potter-style ending wherein everyone settles down with the cute guy/girl they crushed on once when they were eleven years old. 

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20 minutes ago, Lysander said:

D&D have a pretty clear modus operandi when it comes to foreshadowing in their writing-- as heavy-handed and unsubtle as possible. If it isn't as blatant as characters making direct references to it over and over again (see: the build up to Cersei blowing up the Sept), it probably doesn't exist. 

As Joe Dempsie explained: when he was sent out on his rowboat at the end of S3, they told Joe that they intended him to return again, meanwhile they pretended him to be gone for so long they hoped people would forget he was a part of the story.

So, no clubbing you with a hammer in the head with Olly-stares is not their sole MO. Separating pairs and trying to make people forget about the pairing, to then come with a surprise return to it is another MO. When it comes to romance, viewers tend to require only a few scenes before they figure out which character is paired with the other character. You can't stretch it out for too long without something happening if you keep them paired up, so they need to be separated. And then just throw distraction filler to keep viewers in doubt.

The detractors alter their arguments and change the perimeter each time again: Sandor's dead, Gendry's not even in the show anymore. Oh, shit Sandor's alive and Gendry's back, what else can I come up with to put down Sansan and Gendrya? Sandor and Gendry don't talk about them! Oh, shit, Sandor has ginger-talk. We've got to invent a new reason.

There was indirect girl-talk to Gendry: walking, fighting and fucking and in S3 to Mel Gendry said "after all that running and fighting, back in KL", followed up with a near-fucking by a redhead witch who leeched him and he still has a huge chip on his shoulder about. Jon and Tormund talked about WF to him and in an indirect way telegraphed that the nearest place with a woman alive is WF.

If this were the books, I agree that Jon and Gendry would talk Arya. The show isn't the books. He's been in 2 episodes so far, and he's not getting reunited with Arya until she's 18 on the show, a grown woman, who doesn't need a keeper anymore (not Sandor, not Brienne). Betcha though we'll get some comment from an onlooker when they do reunite. 

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27 minutes ago, Meera of Tarth said:

yes that song is so beautiful. I think that's part of the magic of the books, though

I would have loved to listen to it in the show but we might get other surprises next season

They've kept the whole Acorn Hall book stuff out of the S3 arc. Adult Dempsie rolling on the floor with underage Maisie in a dress and a romantic song would have been too much then. I think we can expect a version of that in S8. And they'll have some singer sing the featherbed song in WF hall. Instead they had a shirtless scene in S2 with Arya peeking, and in S3 there's the "I could be your family!"

They used the "fastest" and "strongest" comparisons of that scene already, and they used Tormund going on about how it smells down south, and smelling is also part of the Acorn Hall scene.

Edited by sweetsunray

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31 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

There was indirect girl-talk to Gendry: walking, fighting and fucking and in S3 to Mel Gendry said "after all that running and fighting, back in KL", followed up with a near-fucking by a redhead witch who leeched him and he still has a huge chip on his shoulder about. Jon and Tormund talked about WF to him and in an indirect way telegraphed that the nearest place with a woman alive is WF.

yes, I agree. Sometimes it's better storytelling not to be extremely obvious with the hints when the pairing has been separated for a long period of time (not the case of JB) and the last time they saw each other the moments were very intense. Then, the pay off also feels more realistic (and less contrived).

Coudl you elaborate on this? I had not noticed this parallel. Even if I don't like the Melisandre scene..., do you think that what Mel tells him is probably rlated to Tormund's talk? 

Edited by Meera of Tarth
"not" noticed

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11 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

They've kept the whole Acorn Hall book stuff out of the S3 arc. Adult Dempsie rolling on the floor with underage Maisie in a dress and a romantic song would have been too much then. I think we can expect a version of that in S8. And they'll have some singer sing the featherbed song in WF hall. Instead they had a shirtless scene in S2 with Arya peeking, and in S3 there's the "I could be your family!"

They used the "fastest" and "strongest" comparisons of that scene already, and they used Tormund going on about how it smells down south, and smelling is also part of the Acorn Hall scene.

Yes, I couldn't agree more with that! They even changed their roles as the one who has the crush because of their age and thus, created the alternate verison of being his family (which is the contrary in the books, even if she really wants it).

I think we will see more m'lady moments and if the song played out in s8 I'd melt. it would be awesome! :wub:

yes, she smells her...

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

GRRM didn't know a lot of the minor characters' endgames when he laid out the endgames in 2013 to D&D. Gendry and Edric are sufficiently minor characters that it's a fair assumption that D&D are flying blind.

I do wonder about Edric Storm though since he is so logically the person to take over the Stormlands, depending on how vindictive Daenerys is and how detailed Martin would like to make his ending to the story. 

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