AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Added a quick note to the OP in the beginning under spoilers to cover the issue of Benjen real quick. Also one at the end connecting this to comparing Tourney's and a look at who was stealing the Maid as opposed to who was crowning the Maid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 My apologies as a bad narrator. There is how ever a lot of information to include in these threads already and people hate reading long post, but also require things to be backed up by quotes usually to. So it's a balancing act Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Possibly if this is when Benjen spoke with recruiters about going North. Though we dont know for sure when Benjen spoke to recruiters if he did at all (Jon didn't) and we dont know when Benjen went to the wall exactly. I'm not saying that Benjen had a conversation with the recruiter. I'm saying he was there when the recruiter spoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 28 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Other wise Benjen would indeed know who Mance was as a brother in the watch. Yes, Benjen knew Mance was a member of the NW. But he did not know the man by sight as Mance says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Just now, OtherFromAnotherMother said: I'm not saying that Benjen had a conversation with the recruiter. I'm saying he was there when the recruiter spoke. He was, but may have been distracted and not even paying attention to him as he likely had no interest in the Wall or Watch at that time but rather lost in the Tourney and festivities of which they have never seen before in the North or even in the south as the greatest Tourney in living memory. He was likely high on the festivities and drunk with thoughts of chivalry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 1 minute ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: Yes, Benjen knew Mance was a member of the NW. But he did not know the man by sight as Mance says. Yea, as Benjen joined after Mance had already left. So he would know who Mance was but never have had met the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: Yes, Benjen knew Mance was a member of the NW. But he did not know the man by sight as Mance says. And what ever the reason for coming to winterfell when Jon was 5 must have been for something other than recruiting as Lord Commander had come to winterfell him self Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Quote A Game of Thrones - Tyrion II "That's good, bastard. Most men would rather deny a hard truth than face it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 So for any one following, Mance has indeed never glamoured before and a look at comparing the Tourney's would suggest that Rhaegar did indeed compete and win (maybe by cheating) and crowned Lyanna. But, by comparing Tourney's we also see, that some one else is doing the kidnapping of the Maid, and not the person who did the crowning of the Maid. So some where's possibly in here is where the truth may or may not be. With Mance having a chance of being at the Tourney as he served at the right time, and likely went unnoticed by the Starks as Benjen didn't join untill Jon was at least 5 years old already and Mance had already left the watch sometime after having seen Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OtherFromAnotherMother Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 26 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: He was, but may have been distracted and not even paying attention to him as he likely had no interest in the Wall or Watch at that time but rather lost in the Tourney and festivities of which they have never seen before in the North or even in the south as the greatest Tourney in living memory. He was likely high on the festivities and drunk with thoughts of chivalry. This is a lot of speculation. I'm done here now. Mance says they have never seen each other. I'm going to go with what is written in the books. Thanks for the talk though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said: This is a lot of speculation. I'm done here now. Mance says they have never seen each other. I'm going to go with what is written in the books. Thanks for the talk though! How can you even debate it really? Benjen didn't join till after Mance had left when Jon was around 5. Why would Benjen be paying attention to some black brother rather than all the cute southern girls running around? That's drawl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 I find it funny that im the one assuming alot. Meera refers to knight as a male. Black brother stated as being at Tourney No mention of Starks speaking to Black Brother. Mance serves in Watch at the time and knows of Bael and Blue roses. Benjen doesn't join watch till at least when Jon is 5. and Mance has already left as they've never met. Rhaegar crowns Lyanna as Mance talks about being new to glamouring. Rhaegar accused of kidnapping Lyanna but no actual evidence or witness for this account. Rhaegar may have met this "Male" Knight These are facts stated in the text, not assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 15, 2018 Author Share Posted January 15, 2018 Quote "Under Harren's roof he ate and drank with the wolves, and many of their sworn swords besides, barrowdown men and moose and bears and mermen I wonder what Wyman Manderly knows. Or Wylis Manderly Father of Wylla Manderly. Born In 284 AC or 285 AC[1], at White Harbor Could she be named for the original Wylla? What role did Wylla play in this all and what might Wylis know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Why would Benjen be paying attention to some black brother rather than all the cute southern girls running around? That's drawl. The app: Benjen took the plea of the Black Brother to heart So, yeah, Benjen was definitely paying attention. Paying attention to the HH recruiter + not knowing Mance by sight = the recruiter was not Mance BTW, not knowing someone by sight means you never saw them and don't know what the person looks like. If it was a person you have seen but they have changed, Mance would say that he was sure Benjen wouldn't recognize him or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ygrain said: The app: Benjen took the plea of the Black Brother to heart So, yeah, Benjen was definitely paying attention. Paying attention to the HH recruiter + not knowing Mance by sight = the recruiter was not Mance BTW, not knowing someone by sight means you never saw them and don't know what the person looks like. If it was a person you have seen but they have changed, Mance would say that he was sure Benjen wouldn't recognize him or something like that. Yup. And the books explicitly tell us Dareon was appointed in place of Yoren, who had done it for nearly thirty years. So Yoren is really the only candidate we have that we know was a recruiter for the Watch at the time of the HH tourney. We don't even know if Mance had taken his vows by then, and no reason to think he was ever a recruiter. But when do facts ever stop crackpots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Quote Jon Snow, after being named Lord Commander, names Dareon as a replacement for Yoren, a missing wandering crow http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Wandering_crow So the app clearly states that their are multiple wandering crow's. For any body curious about the subject. Ive chosen to block people now that i no longer find to be in good spirits when stating counter opinions. So if any there's any further comment's im no longer addressing, that is why. If some thinks there is a good point and have a more appropriate way of bringing it up, cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Known wandering crows Conwy[1][6] Gueren[6] Yoren[6] Dareon[7] So just checking, out of roughly 500 men of the Nights' watch, only about 175ish become Rangers, the people who do the recruiting, and of them, multiple people can be recruiters. So, what would you all say those odds just went up to? Well at least 4/175 id say right? These odds just seem to be getting higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
divica Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said: Known wandering crows Conwy[1][6] Gueren[6] Yoren[6] Dareon[7] So just checking, out of roughly 500 men of the Nights' watch, only about 175ish become Rangers, the people who do the recruiting, and of them, multiple people can be recruiters. So, what would you all say those odds just went up to? Well at least 4/175 id say right? These odds just seem to be getting higher. More than that. Mance entered the NW as a kid. So why don t take him travelling around westeros while he is young? If he learned to play na instrument he would be usefol for any recruiter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 13 minutes ago, divica said: More than that. Mance entered the NW as a kid. So why don t take him travelling around westeros while he is young? If he learned to play na instrument he would be usefol for any recruiter. Did you notice there was a tournament of singers at Harrenhal as well? I wonder if Rhaegar competed too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 26 minutes ago, divica said: More than that. Mance entered the NW as a kid. So why don t take him travelling around westeros while he is young? If he learned to play na instrument he would be usefol for any recruiter. Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran II "Yes. Tell it." "Five days of jousting were planned," she said. "There was a great seven-sided mêlée as well, and archery and axe-throwing, a horse race and tourney of singers . . ." "Never mind about all that." Bran squirmed impatiently in his basket on Hodor's back. "Tell about the jousting." I blame Bran for us not discovering more about Mance possibly Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran II "She was," said Meera, hopping over a stone, "but there were others fairer still. One was the wife of the dragon prince, who'd brought a dozen lady companions to attend her. The knights all begged them for favors to tie about their lances." "This isn't going to be one of those love stories, is it?" Bran asked suspiciously. "Hodor doesn't like those so much." "Hodor," said Hodor agreeably. and Ashara too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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