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Jon The Dragon

Lady Stoneheart's destination

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Where will she end up? Stay in the Riverlands, go North, The Vale or South? I'd like to think she compels Jaime to use his army to ride north through the twins (maybe the threatening to kill Brienne) after he learns of 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' remark, join's up with the Crannogmen at some point and learn about Jon, Jaime could feel like he needs to protect Rhaegar's son, Catelyn could find out her other children are alive, about Ned's honour and try to enforce Robbs will, also Brienne can potentially meet Stannis to fulfil her promise. So many potentials!

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2 hours ago, Jonthedragon said:

Where will she end up? Stay in the Riverlands, go North, The Vale or South? I'd like to think she compels Jaime to use his army to ride north through the twins (maybe the threatening to kill Brienne) after he learns of 'Jaime Lannister sends his regards' remark, join's up with the Crannogmen at some point and learn about Jon, Jaime could feel like he needs to protect Rhaegar's son, Catelyn could find out her other children are alive, about Ned's honour and try to enforce Robbs will, also Brienne can potentially meet Stannis to fulfil her promise. So many potentials!

I would like to have her escorting Jaime to the wall because he choose the black (with brienne's intervention) instead of dying. Then their paths can cross Jon and whatever is happening near the wall at the time. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Jonthedragon said:

Jaime does have Edmure, and Jeyne Westerling captive and possibly a crown, so he does have a little bit of leverage.

The problem of using Jaime to free any hostages is how can they trust in jaime's word? They have no way to make Jaime act as they want... 

Then we have LSH thirst for vengeance. She is willing to kill Brienne, what do you think she wants to do to Jaime? I can t see her accepting to work with him... Even letting him go to the wall looks like something she will need to be convinced to do... 

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I think just him having Edmure and Robb's wife will keep him from being killed for the moment, he can prove that with the crown. In getting Jaime to do what she wants, she does have Brienne who Jaime cares about. I think he is trying to find his honour in the world now, as he seems full of regret for things he has or hasn't done and would like to make amends. he thinks Sansa is his last chance for honour and he dreams of Rhaegar chastising him for his wife and children. If he finds out about the Jaime Lannister sends his regards comment I can see him wanting to prove himself. A Lannister army would be a good Trojan horse to take the twins, possibly under the guise to help the Boltons at Winterfell. I'm probably wrong. It's good to hear peoples theories.

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29 minutes ago, Jonthedragon said:

Jaime does have Edmure, and Jeyne Westerling captive and possibly a crown, so he does have a little bit of leverage.

 

Spoiler

The Lannisters might not have Edmure and Jeyne for long. The prologue of Winds is supposed to be taking place with the host escorting them to Casterly Rock. Maybe the BwB or Blackfish or both attacking the host to free the prisoners.

Lady Stoneheart has Freys to fry and I wouldn't be surprised to see her start chasing after Littlefinger. As far as calling someone a false friend, she needs look no further than that little twerp.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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26 minutes ago, Jonthedragon said:

I think just him having Edmure and Robb's wife will keep him from being killed for the moment, he can prove that with the crown. In getting Jaime to do what she wants, she does have Brienne who Jaime cares about. I think he is trying to find his honour in the world now, as he seems full of regret for things he has or hasn't done and would like to make amends. he thinks Sansa is his last chance for honour and he dreams of Rhaegar chastising him for his wife and children. If he finds out about the Jaime Lannister sends his regards comment I can see him wanting to prove himself. A Lannister army would be a good Trojan horse to take the twins, possibly under the guise to help the Boltons at Winterfell. I'm probably wrong. It's good to hear peoples theories.

From LSH point of view Jaime is a liar involved in killing her son. Why should she believe he is willing to follow her orders in order to keep Brienne alive? 

You are forgetting that she released Jaime once and she thinks he lied to her and didn t help her daughters. I Don t see her doing the same deal with him... 

Then Jaime has been in the Riverlands defeating the remains of the Stark loyalists. Why would he change sides now and start attacking the freys? Because he saw LSH? 

Given LSH state of mind and jaime's last actions I just don t see how they can cooperate or how LSH would ever agree to not kill Jaime or send him to the wall...  

23 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 

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The Lannisters might not have Edmure and Jeyne for long. The prologue of Winds is supposed to be taking place with the host escorting them to Casterly Rock. Maybe the BwB or Blackfish or both attacking the host to free the prisoners.

Lady Stoneheart has Freys to fry and I wouldn't be surprised to see her start chasing after Littlefinger. As far as calling someone a false friend, she needs look no further than that little twerp.

Why would she go after LF? Does she know of his betrayals? I don't think so... 

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She may find out Jaime took Riverrun with no violence, he rescued Brienne from violence before. We don't know what was said by Brienne to LSH after she was let down from the noose. LSH wanted Brienne to slay Jaime with Oathkeeper at first, but that seems to have changed, unless Brienne ambushes Jaime on the way to LSH.

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7 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

She may find out Jaime took Riverrun with no violence, he rescued Brienne from violence before. We don't know what was said by Brienne to LSH after she was let down from the noose. LSH wanted Brienne to slay Jaime with Oathkeeper at first, but that seems to have changed, unless Brienne ambushes Jaime on the way to LSH.

I don t remember jaime's exact words, but he conquered riverrun by making awfull threats. If LSH heard about that she would hate Jaime even more… I think even Jaime wasn t proud of what he did...

Brienne giving LSH more reasons for her to be loyal to Jaime isn t helping her cause… She would need to make LSH believe Jaime gave her the sword so that she could be better equipped to find her daughters instead of a recompense for delivering him to KL… How can brienne do that?

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Possibly by explaining it's actually Ned's sword and the story behind it concerning Tywin. Valyrian swords have immense worth, to just give one away would mean a lot. She could also know that Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding beforehand as she was with him when it occurred. The Riverland soldiers from Riverrun will also be proof that they were released unharmed. He did say some things to Edmure, but threats and actions are different things. Anything could happen with him

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29 minutes ago, divica said:

Why would she go after LF? Does she know of his betrayals? I don't think so... 

I think she questioned why he would lie about the dagger. But I think the time will come when she will put all the clues together and realize what he did. She has all the clues she could possibly need.

10 minutes ago, divica said:

I don t remember jaime's exact words, but he conquered riverrun by making awfull threats. If LSH heard about that she would hate Jaime even more… I think even Jaime wasn t proud of what he did...

Must you make me say the words? Pia was standing by the flap of the tent with her arms full of clothes. His squires were listening as well, and the singer. Let them hear, Jaime thought. Let the world hear. It makes no matter. He forced himself to smile, "You've seen our numbers, Edmure. You've seen the ladders, the towers, the trebuchets, the rams. If I speak the command, my coz will bridge your moat and break your gate. Hundreds will die, most of them your own. Your former bannermen will make up the first wave of attackers, so you'll start your day by killing the fathers and brothers of men who died for you at the Twins. The second wave will be Freys, I have no lack of those. My westermen will follow when your archers are short of arrows and your knights so weary they can hardly lift their blades. When the castle falls, all those inside will be put to the sword. Your herds will be butchered, your godswood will be felled, your keeps and towers will burn. I'll pull your walls down, and divert the Tumblestone over the ruins. By the time I'm done no man will ever know that a castle once stood here." Jaime got to his feet. "Your wife may whelp before that. You'll want your child, I expect. I'll send him to you when he's born. With a trebuchet." (Jaime VI, AFfC 38)

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8 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Possibly by explaining it's actually Ned's sword and the story behind it concerning Tywin. Valyrian swords have immense worth, to just give one away would mean a lot. She could also know that Jaime didn't know about the Red Wedding beforehand as she was with him when it occurred. The Riverland soldiers from Riverrun will also be proof that they were released unharmed. He did say some things to Edmure, but threats and actions are different things. Anything could happen with him

So you want Brienne to say the lannisters destroyed Ice and forged 2 new weapons. One of wich Jaime gave her… How does this prove she isn t working for the lannisters or that Jaime is a a good person?

And given that roose said that "Jaime sends his regards" why would LSH believe brienne? How can brienne even know if Jaime didn t talk about it with roose behind her back?
 

Seriously, I don t see what you are trying to say...

7 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

"Your wife may whelp before that. You'll want your child, I expect. I'll send him to you when he's born. With a trebuchet." (Jaime VI, AFfC 38)

Given that a lot of people heard Jaime say this I don t see how LSH can t know about it. And it is another nail in Jaime Lannister coffin...

It doesn t matter if he thinks it was the best course of action. His actions and words paint him as a stark enemy and an awful person

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6 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Jaime and LSH have one thing in common at least, they both don't like the Boltons or Freys too much.

But Jaime is working with them. Hell, him turning agains the freys would be the same as turning against his familly. Do you think he wants to put his familly in danger? To help a rebelion in the riverlands? 

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Cersei is in danger, he didn't go to help, even after her begging him. He put his family in danger for years banging Cersei, Robert wouldn't of been too happy. I don't see Jaime dying just yet. I also don't see how him taking the black would come up, as LSH isn't a northerner, but if it did that would be a different angle to look at that could be quite interesting. Jaime seems to be disgusted by the Freys and looks down on them often. He never liked Roose or their methods.

Jaime has also ordered the release of the prisoners at the Twins, this information could help The North as they have Greatjon Umber there. 

Edited by Jon The Dragon

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3 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Cersei is in danger, he didn't go to help, even after her begging him. He put his family in danger for years banging Cersei, Robert wouldn't of been too happy. I don't see Jaime dying just yet. I also don't see how him taking the black would come up, as LSH isn't a northerner, but if it did that would be a different angle to look at that could be quite interesting. Jaime seems to be disgusted by the Freys and looks down on them often. He never liked Roose or their methods.

He didn t go help cersei because she broke his heart. He thinks she is a whore...

And he banged cersei for love and he pushed bran from the tower to protect his familly for example...

But the point is if he kills the freys the riverlands will be in open rebelion against the crown. He will be putting his kids in danger, kevan and whatever familly he still has. Jaime won t betray his familly in that way… It doesn t make sense for him to be directly responsable for starting a rebellion against tommen...

And besides the fact that LSH has lived in the north for the past 15 or so years sending criminals to the Wall is something done everywhere in westeros and not only the north. My point about sending him to the Wall is that it gives his character a new arc that at the moment I can see him doing. Between the others and jon being rhaegar's son both situations give Jaime motivations to do things...

I don t see him having a future in the riverlands where everyone hates him and wants him dead… And if he stays close to KL he will hear about faegon and his invasion. THAT will makehim return to KL to a lannister sinking ships… I don t see much future for him there either...

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Kevan is dead, Varys got to him and Pycelle. The crown is about to have to deal with Aegon, Dorne, Euron and whatever advantage the Tyrells can get themselves into. I do see Jaime headed North and possibly onto the wall towards Jon for the war against the Others. I pictured the route he would take going through The Twins, The Neck and past Winterfell. I just don't know about taking the black.

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12 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Kevan is dead, Varys got to him and Pycelle. The crown is about to have to deal with Aegon, Dorne, Euron and whatever advantage the Tyrells can get themselves into. I do see Jaime headed North and possibly onto the wall towards Jon for the war against the Others. I pictured the route he would take going through The Twins, The Neck and past Winterfell. I just don't know about taking the black.

Jaime doesn t know that kevan is dead.

And I am not saying he will take the black because by the time they get there I have no deia if there will be a NW. Just that LSH would take him north with that intention.

And you are just making my case. If Jaime turns against the freys then the riverlands might even join faegon against his familly...

Personally, I can see either Jaime helping them free some hostages and then being able to escape and return to KL to help his familly or him being escorted to the Wall and becoming involved with preparing the north to fight the others. To me these are the only paths I see for Jaime besides simply being killed by LSH.

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A good portion of The Riverlands are against them secretly I think, a good few houses declared Robb King of The trident to go along with his King in The North title, from Maidenpool to Pinkmaiden and everywhere North from there. I suspect there is something going on there behind the scenes we aren't aware of yet like in The North. I see that area joining with The North, instead of looking south. We aren't far off in our opinions

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