Three treasons will you know

[butterweedstrover]

I don't mean to give everything away since I want people to still be surprised by TWOW, but alas... 

In the house of the undying ghosts start speaking to Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen: 

"…three heads has the dragon… the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air… mother of dragons… child of storm… The whispers became a swirling song… three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love… Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt… three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love… The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…" 

Now, let us understand something about grammar: "will" is future tense.  I did, I do, I will.  

I have already explained who the three heads of the dragon are so there is no need to dwell on that.   

However, "know" is a curious word. When a person knows something, it is because they are familiar with it. If the ghosts had said "betrayal" then Dany would be correct in her reading of the prophecy. But just like Cersei confuses the Valonqar prophecy, Dany confuses the last third of her prophecy. 

Three treasons will you know is an indictment on herself, for she will commit three treasons. However she has not counted up to three. If she has committed one out of three treasons, or two out of three treasons, then the prophecy is still set in the future tense.   

Once you figure out the rest of the mystery the answers are obvious, but again I see no reason to spoil everyone. I am just trying to hedge people in the right direction. 

"the still blue air" and "blue and corrupt" hearts are a symbol of ice. The fires are interesting, but they exceed the scope of this post.  

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

If you interpret "know" to mean in that way, then yes, it can mean she will be the one committing the treasons.  However, the Undying do not count time in the way the living do.  Perhaps past, present, and future are all the same to them.  They are in a state of preservation after all and are in a zombie state.  

The word choice of "treason" is very deliberate.  A wife having an extramarital affair is betraying her husband.  That is betrayal but not treason.  Treason is an act against authority and government.  If you will, it is a crime against the state.  Dany has no government over her nor any authority.  She is the government because she is the Queen of Meereen, the Khaleesi of the Dothraki, and the heir to Westeros.  You could argue for Aegon having a better claim if he is legitimate, but even that is very debatable.  Any action she takes, if she even does, against Aegon will not be treason.  She can easily put forth the fact that she is the heir of King Viserys III, who was crowned on Dragonstone after the death of their father, King Aerys II.   

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 11/11/2020 at 6:16 PM, butterweedstrover said:

I don't mean to give everything away since I want people to still be surprised by TWOW, but alas... 

In the house of the undying ghosts start speaking to Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen: 

"…three heads has the dragon… the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air… mother of dragons… child of storm… The whispers became a swirling song… three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love… Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt… three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love… The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…" 

Now, let us understand something about grammar: "will" is future tense.  I did, I do, I will.  

I have already explained who the three heads of the dragon are so there is no need to dwell on that.   

However, "know" is a curious word. When a person knows something, it is because they are familiar with it. If the ghosts had said "betrayal" then Dany would be correct in her reading of the prophecy. But just like Cersei confuses the Valonqar prophecy, Dany confuses the last third of her prophecy. 

Three treasons will you know is an indictment on herself, for she will commit three treasons. However she has not counted up to three. If she has committed one out of three treasons, or two out of three treasons, then the prophecy is still set in the future tense.   

Once you figure out the rest of the mystery the answers are obvious, but again I see no reason to spoil everyone. I am just trying to hedge people in the right direction. 

"the still blue air" and "blue and corrupt" hearts are a symbol of ice. The fires are interesting, but they exceed the scope of this post.  

The first has already happened.  MMD and the deaths of Drogo and Rhaego.  She was shown the past paired with the first treason.  Just remember this about the Palace of Dust, time is fluid.  They gave her visions of the past.  Her marriage to Drogo and their first night was paired with the first treason.  The remaining two will follow the same pattern.  It's partly official but also personal.  The first lie has been revealed, Stannis.  Aegon and Jon will be the second and third lies. 

[butterweedstrover]

24 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

The first has already happened.  MMD and the deaths of Drogo and Rhaego.  She was shown the past paired with the first treason.  Just remember this about the Palace of Dust, time is fluid.  They gave her visions of the past.  Her marriage to Drogo and their first night was paired with the first treason.  The remaining two will follow the same pattern.  It's partly official but also personal.  The first lie has been revealed, Stannis.  Aegon and Jon will be the second and third lies. 

I don't believe Mirri betrayed Dany. 

But you are right the first treason has happened. It is when Viserys had his head burned with molten gold.

[Amris]

On 11/12/2020 at 12:16 AM, butterweedstrover said:

I don't mean to give everything away since I want people to still be surprised by TWOW, but alas... 

In the house of the undying ghosts start speaking to Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen: 

"…three heads has the dragon… the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air… mother of dragons… child of storm… The whispers became a swirling song… three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love… Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt… three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love… The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…" 

Now, let us understand something about grammar: "will" is future tense.  I did, I do, I will.  

I have already explained who the three heads of the dragon are so there is no need to dwell on that.   

However, "know" is a curious word. When a person knows something, it is because they are familiar with it. If the ghosts had said "betrayal" then Dany would be correct in her reading of the prophecy. But just like Cersei confuses the Valonqar prophecy, Dany confuses the last third of her prophecy. 

Three treasons will you know is an indictment on herself, for she will commit three treasons. However she has not counted up to three. If she has committed one out of three treasons, or two out of three treasons, then the prophecy is still set in the future tense.   

Once you figure out the rest of the mystery the answers are obvious, but again I see no reason to spoil everyone. I am just trying to hedge people in the right direction. 

"the still blue air" and "blue and corrupt" hearts are a symbol of ice. The fires are interesting, but they exceed the scope of this post.  

Thank you for starting yet another HotU thread. That's my fav topic!

I am not afraid of being spoiled (besides your theory will likely turn out to be incorrect) so please share your thoughts on what the three treasons will be and why. I am interested.

I must have missed your 'three heads' post unfortunately. Who are they in your view?

Alright - let's interpret the line about the three treasons:

There is the word 'know'.

The HotU prophecy does not state Dany will 'commit' treason. Only that she will know three treasons. Three spedific treasons.  It does not say she will know treason in general (as in "she will commit treason, thus 'know' it" - as you interpret). Contrary to what you say the wording does not indict her at all. Rather the wording literally means that three specific treasons will come to her knowledge.

Now as to which treasons are meant I think we first have to realize that the HotU prophecy is not (only) about Dany. Rather it contains major plot points for the story as a whole (including other important characters). So the "treasons" mentioned can have happened in other storylines and then at some point need to come to Dany's knowledge.

I can't be sure which of the treasons in our story are the ones meant by the prophecy of course. But we can take it as a given that they must be the most important treasons that happen in the whole story. Not just any old treasons. THE treasons. (Just like the Smoking Tower can't just be any old tower, but I digress.) Here are my treason candidates:

Jon commits treason when he tries to involve the Night's Watch into the politics of the realm by attacking the Boltons. This is treason against the realm. The Night's Watch is forbidden from doing such a thing. Jon was stopped at the last moment but only after he had already held his speech, trying to win people for his planned attack. He did it for love, as he thought Arya was in danger and Arya is the sibling he is closest to. It is a major turning point of the story and happens to one of the central characters. So it belongs in the HotU.

Theon Greyjoy commited treason against the Starks. Yes, he did it because he is a Greyjoy and wanted to advance himself by helping his family (his kin = his blood) - but he was working for Robb Stark and was on a (diplomatic) mission for the King Robb when he defected and attacked the North. A treason right there. This is another of the major betrayals in the story, pivotal to the story, happening to a major character. It belongs in the central prophecy also. A betrayal for blood (blood = kin).

The treason for gold is something I am especially unsure of. It needs to be something as pivotal to the story as the other two. There are lots of betrayals all around but none feel really like cornerstones of the story to me. Ontop of that a mere betrayal isn't enough as the wording demands a "treason". A treason is a betrayal of one's country or King (or Queen). So a central character needs to commit treason against their country or King. Jamie killing Cersei? Jon killing Dany (or vice versa)? Either would qualify as 'for gold'. (Gold meaning the crown).

 

[Darth Sidious]

On 11/11/2020 at 6:16 PM, butterweedstrover said:

I don't mean to give everything away since I want people to still be surprised by TWOW, but alas... 

In the house of the undying ghosts start speaking to Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen: 

"…three heads has the dragon… the ghost chorus yammered inside her skull with never a lip moving, never a breath stirring the still blue air… mother of dragons… child of storm… The whispers became a swirling song… three fires must you light… one for life and one for death and one to love… Her own heart was beating in unison to the one that floated before her, blue and corrupt… three mounts must you ride… one to bed and one to dread and one to love… The voices were growing louder, she realized, and it seemed her heart was slowing, and even her breath… three treasons will you know… once for blood and once for gold and once for love…" 

Now, let us understand something about grammar: "will" is future tense.  I did, I do, I will.  

I have already explained who the three heads of the dragon are so there is no need to dwell on that.   

However, "know" is a curious word. When a person knows something, it is because they are familiar with it. If the ghosts had said "betrayal" then Dany would be correct in her reading of the prophecy. But just like Cersei confuses the Valonqar prophecy, Dany confuses the last third of her prophecy. 

Three treasons will you know is an indictment on herself, for she will commit three treasons. However she has not counted up to three. If she has committed one out of three treasons, or two out of three treasons, then the prophecy is still set in the future tense.   

Once you figure out the rest of the mystery the answers are obvious, but again I see no reason to spoil everyone. I am just trying to hedge people in the right direction. 

"the still blue air" and "blue and corrupt" hearts are a symbol of ice. The fires are interesting, but they exceed the scope of this post.  

I will say that treason encompass more than her arc.  Otherwise, what was the point of showing her the aftermath of the red wedding.  It had nothing to do with her.  Not directly in any way.  Yeah, so the treasons may include people and events outside of her personal story.  It may include a treason which she may herself commit, though I hope not.  Those treasons may happen in the past or the future but they are important for her to know about.  Daenerys is the main protagonist but it may be necessary to take part in a treason in order for her to accomplish a needed objective.  I trust her judgement.