Ashara Dayne

[AlaskanSandman]

The only tie in myth between Jon and the Morning star, is in Orion the Hunter with his Two Hounds. Sirius and Rigel are both apart of the constellation and are both known as the morning star.

Sirius is also known as the Dog Star.

 

Which does hint that Jon is blood to Dany but, her enemy and part of the usurper line of the bloodstone Emperor.

Thus, Dany is Venus, while Jon is the Hunter.

[AlaskanSandman]

On 10/31/2022 at 11:04 AM, By Odin's Beard said:

I just picked up a Hebrew dictionary and it pretty much confirms the theory that Ned was keeping Ashara at the Wolf's Den during Robert's Rebellion.

 

aseerah / asar / asir means "prisoner, inmate, captive" and "arrested" (in Arabic as well as Hebrew)

dan / deen  means "sentenced, condemned" and "judgement, law"

 

seerah  means "fishing boat"  [Also in Gaelic iaschaire means "fisherman" and gean means "daughter"] Ashara is the Fisherman's Daughter

 

hash'arah  means "leaving behind, abandonment"--and Ned left her at the Wolf's Den, then had to abandon her after he married Catelyn.  (in Welsh ysgar [sounds like "Ashar"] means "to divorce" and esgar means "to divorce") and in Old English ascheadan means "to separate" and aesc means "ship"

 

And asarah means "ten" in Hebrew and Ashara was a 10/10.

 

And asar means "pretended, made oneself" --and Ashara took an another identity after she faked her death, just like Davos after he stayed at the Wolf's Den.  (The parallel between Ashara and Davos is because in Gaelic uinnsean means "ash tree" and uinnean means "onion" and Davos is the Onion Knight.

 

-------

Also recently found that

in Welsh ysgwr [sounds like "Ashar"] means "to dawn" [and is on the same page as yswilio which means "shy" and Ned is shy, Ashara is the the Shy Maid, and Ned says Jon's mom is Wylla.]

in Welsh dwyn [sounds like "Dayne"] means "to bear, to bring" and dwyn achau  means "to trace a pedigree" and on another page ach ac edryd means "parentage" [arth means "bear" so Arthur Dayne = bear bear and the Old Bear is Jon's surrogate father at the Wall, and bequeaths Jon his ancestral family sword]

The child of Ashara Dawn is Lightbringer

 

in Welsh duniad means "to unite" and dyn means "man"  --Aragorn was a version of King Arthur who united the people, and duniad dyn means "a man who unites the people" and Ned Dayne --> dun niad. 

And if you compare a map of Westeros to the UK, White Harbor is Dunedin.  And Jon was born at White Harbor at the Wolf's Den, and he is a Dunedin ranger.

 

 

I will say that there maybe room for Jon and Dany to be blood, through Ned and Ashara. (Im not personally sold on it maybe but) Brienne could be the "Morning Star" figure through house tarth maybe having some old marriage and blood connection to House Dayne. Making her the Venus figure. Leaving Jon and Dany to be the Hunter and the wolves? There are two morning stars in that constellation. Dany could be Rigel, (Sounds like a dragon name no?) and Jon could be Sirius, the Dog Star.

Thoughts?

This would give the fall of the morning star figure in the Bloodstone emperor (Rigel and Sirius), and the Amethyst Empress being usurped in the Venus figure.

In greek, this would be Eosphorus going to war with Aphrodite (Venus) essentially.  

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

So I think that "Beyond the Wall" means dead, and everyone on the Other side of the Wall is actually dead.  In Celtic Myths and Legends, (pg 131) they say that Plutarch believed there was a "Land of the Dead" in England separated by an impassible wall. 

The Nights Watch is supposed to keep the dead on their side of the Wall.  And Jon let them through.

And I think Jon Snow will unite the people, but not in the way you think.  He will unite them against their will, in an undead army.  Both Aragorn and Rand Al'Thor lead undead armies.--and in Rand's case, a magic Horn brings the dead back to life-- the Horn of Valere.  And Jon found a magic horn. 

 

Mance Rayder

manes means "ghosts of the dead" in Latin

mane  means "dawn" in Latin

ridire  means "knight" in Gaelic, and ridir means knight in "Norse" and rheidyr  means "knight" in Welsh

 

Mance Rayder = Ghost Knight.  The Others are Ghost Knights.

 

rhodiar means "ranger, stroller" in Welsh

reideadoir  means "reconcilor, a roller"

rolloir / rollaigeoir  which means "roller, rolling stone, swathe" and is on the same page as ruad / ruada means "red / rose"

rodoir means "wayfarer"

riadaire  means "cunning old fellow"

 

 

rhiawdr  means "chieftain"

rhyddhawr  means "one who sets free" in Welsh

rhyddhawr  means "extreme concern"

rhydir  means "wild, uncultivated land"

rhydd  means  "free, open, loose, liberty"

rhyd  means "passage, to ford"

rhuddo  means "crimson"

rhiawd  means "parent, origin"

 

reodian means "to search out"

 

Ghost Knight, King Beyond the Wall--King of the Dead, former Ranger, a cunning old fellow, unites the dead, and sets them free in the Land of the Living.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

1 hour ago, gatlin said:

Odin's Beard, sir, can you perhaps shine light on any possible etymological or phonological similarities between the names Baelor / Balerion and Tolkien's Beleriand?

Balor / Balar was the one-eyed demon god of the Fomorians.  He had an evil eye that could shoot beams and paralyze armies, which probably comes from bale  meaning "evil"   [which has implications with the God's Eye shooting beams]

and bel / byl / bal the god of war, Mars as he was worshiped in England from the Romans.

 

Balerion probably a combination of the same, plus Latin valeria meaning "eagle" and "strong" and bale-fire is "fatal or evil fire" or "very hot fire"  bal means "great fire" in Old Norse.  and valo means "fire, shoot" in Greek

bele  means "marten, sable" or black in Welsh

Possibly also the Welsh bela  "havoc, tumult, war"  and Latin bellus meaning to "wage war" because agon means "to fight, to struggle" in Greek, which is partly were Aegon comes from.

belua  means "monster, beast" in Latin, [which is were Belwas comes from.]

 

Balrog comes from the same bal  root, as bal and rogus / rogal  both mean "great fire" or "evil fire"  and that is partially where Rhaegal comes from.  And rhwygol means "rending, lacerating" in Welsh

 

As for Beleriand, yes it probably comes from the same bal "evil" and bela / beli "war, havoc" roots + llawr "land", because that is where the War of Wrath took place. 

Beleriand sank into the seas and in Welsh belg means "overwhelming, bursting over" and blaw means "flooding of the sea" and lleriad means "tidal"

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

4 hours ago, gatlin said:

Separately, I have long had the suspicion that while argyria is certainly on the list of inspirations for Targaryen, the concept of a blonde-haired, differently-eyed people who believe themselves to be god-like might also come from *Aryans.* Fun contemplating what this means for the story.

Certainly, the aryan racial purity stuff figures in with the Targaryens.  They are obsessed with racial purity and keeping the sacred bloodline pure.  But they are right, and they are not just racists.  They are carrying genetically engineered DNA that is special and confers god-like powers.  But years of inbreeding has taken its toll and they are 50/50 insane.  And despite all efforts, or perhaps because of them, the blood is diluted/polluted.

I think George was coming up with an explanation for why monarchs in the past believed they had sacred blood.  Because at one point, some actually did. 

 

The thing about having a special bloodline with godlike powers, in the novel Mutineer's Moon, the moon is a sentient spaceship called Azhi Dahak ["burning dragon"] and its sigil is a three-headed dragon.   And only a person with the right ancient bloodline could access and fly it.  Which I think is what is special about Dany, she can move the Shadow moon/Lion of Night that is poisoning the Earth and messing up the seasons and which caused the Long Night--because she is a direct descendant of the God-on-Earth--whose ship it is.

And George already wrote a story along those lines, when Haviland Tuf accesses the Ark, he is granted godlike powers--even the power of life and death.  And only the right person could do so.

The ship Azhi Dahak was one of the last remaining ships of a long ago collapsed galactic empire, which is exactly the same plot as Tuf, the Ark is the only remaining EEC seedship from the collapsed 1,000 worlds galactic empire.

 

aryan  just means "noble, excellent" in Hindi.

[Aebram]

17 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

On 11/4/2022 at 1:33 AM, Aebram said:

Has he actually stated this? Can you give us a link to an interview, or an SSM?

I don't know.  But I certainly wouldn't expect him to admit it if he did.  Authors want to keep their methods mysterious.

Do they?  You mentioned Tolkien and a few other authors who are known to use translating dictionaries.  Or was that more guesswork on your part?

[Craving Peaches]

This is a lovely collection of parallels and symbolism. I am sure at least some of the names were formed this way. However I don't think that all of them would have been. I think there are a few different ways the author comes up with names, and this is one of them. As far as I can tell, the other method used appears to be alternative spellings of real names and swapping the letters around/chopping off or adding on letters.

But I am very curious about the White Harbour - Edinburgh connection (as a resident of that fair city , incidentally White Harbour is one of the places I would like to live in most were I in Westeros).

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

9 hours ago, Aebram said:

Do they?  You mentioned Tolkien and a few other authors who are known to use translating dictionaries.  Or was that more guesswork on your part?

Andrzej Sapkowski of the Witcher  series, has admitted that he uses Welsh and Gaelic and Hindi dictionaries to come up with his stuff.  ciri  means "bird, hen" in Hindi, and gearait / gearaid  means "warlike, heroic, cunning, valor" in Gaelic, and "sharp-honed".   Andrzej claims to speak 14 languages. 

 

Here is another very specific one, in Harry Potter there is a predatory goblin banker named Gringott.  In French gringotter means "to hum" but directly above it gringalet means "weak, puny man" and above that is grinch.

and grignoter means "to gnaw, get pickings out of" and above that grigou means "miserable skinflint" and "tightfisted old fellow"

 

 

Any Fight Club  fans here?  The author has said that the name Durden came from a former coworker, and maybe that is in part true, but not the whole truth. 

Because in Welsh dwrdyn  means "threatener" and is right above dwrn which means "fist" and Fight Club is about bare knuckle boxing. 

The usage example for dwrdyn uses the name Jack, and that is where the "I Am Jack's Complete Lack of Surprise" stuff came from.

dwrdd means "murmur, stir, rustle, confusion"

 

And in Gaelic:

dorn  means "fist, a blow of the fist" and dornadoir means "boxer"

diardain  means "anger, contempt, churlish, wrathful"

deardan  means "tempest, storm"

deoraird-  means "outlaw, exile"

duadain  means "a troublesome fellow, agony, distress"

durdanta  means "surly, sour, repulsive"

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

5 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

But I am very curious about the White Harbour - Edinburgh connection (as a resident of that fair city , incidentally White Harbour is one of the places I would like to live in most were I in Westeros).

If you have any local lore that would shed light on the themes of King Arthur, Tolkien, or Dunedain stuff that would be helpful.

 

So in addition to dunaid dyn meaning "man who unites the people" in  Welsh,

dwnedyn  means "grammatist, linguist, speaker" in Welsh and Tolkien was a grammatist.

 

duinn  means "prince, noble" in Gaelic and the phrase donn a duine / duinn a duine  means "by Jove!"

 

dunad  means "fortress, royal residence" in Gaelic duine / daoine  means "man"

dunaidaigh  means "fortress-holder"

 

and duinn means "hesitating, unwillingness" and Aragorn did not want the crown.

 

elende  means "exile" in Old English

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

If you have any local lore that would shed light on the themes of King Arthur, Tolkien, or Dunedain stuff that would be helpful.

I don't know if this is any use but Arthur's seat is an extinct volcano. The city has been occupied by the English multiple times. There were laws requiring the clans to send their heirs to Edinburgh. The clans were catholic while the crown was protestant, it was an effort to convert them. There's more stuff but I don't know how useful/relevant it would be to you. 

Edit: there is also the nearby town of South Queensferry, with North Queensferry across the Firth of Forth. As the name suggests one of the Scottish queens sailed from there. If GRRM is really going for the Edinburgh parallel, perhaps Daenerys will either land in or sail from White Harbour at some point.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I don't know if this is any use but Arthur's seat is an extinct volcano. The city has been occupied by the English multiple times. There were laws requiring the clans to send their heirs to Edinburgh. The clans were catholic while the crown was protestant, it was an effort to convert them. There's more stuff but I don't know how useful/relevant it would be to you. 

Okay, you made me realize something, right in the center of Minas Tirith, Ecthelion is the a big spur of the mountain that juts out, and that is where the King's Seat is in the White Tower.  Just like King Arthur's Seat jutting out and being surrounded by Dunedin. 

In Greek several words that begin with ekthe- [as in Ecthelion] means "display, exposed, laid bare, imperil" and it is an exposed outcrop.

ektheton means "abandoned baby" and Aragorn was orphaned.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:04 AM, By Odin's Beard said:

 

And asarah means "ten" in Hebrew and Ashara was a 10/10.

lol

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Gondor is a harbor city, called the White City, and White Harbor is a white city and a harbor town.  [gonder / geonder  means "yonder, beyond" in Old English]

and gwen [~Jon] means "white" in Welsh.  and gwin means "wine" and is directly below gwimon [Wyman] and when Davos gets to White Harbor he immediately starts looking for wine.

 

And in Gaelic cuan means "litter of wolf pups" and "harbor" and baile cuain [Bael + wolf] means "harbour town"

 

 

Figured out some names from Lord of the Rings,

byren means "bear" in Old English, and leothian means "lay, poem, to sing" in Old English.  A man named "bear" marries an Elf who is fair.  arth means "bear" and Aragorn is King Arthur reborn, and Aragorn is the descendant of Beren and Luthien and he also marries an Elf, whose name means "to bear" [arwain]. 

[Beren steals a Silmaril, and Earendil's Evenstar is a Silmaril, and Arwen wears an Evenstar, and Gweno means "evenstar" and Aragorn has an evenstar upon his brow.]

 

Many things in Minas Tirith are sea-related, Boromir and Faramir both have sea-related names:

buire  means "roaring, bellow" and muire means "sea"  =  "roaring of the sea"

faire means "watching" and muire means "sea"  = "watching the sea" 

 

 

Denethor comes from dion-athair  which means  "protector, protecting father" in Gaelic  athair means "father" and he is the father of Boromir and Faramir.

dinoethwr means "one who uncovers, exposes, makes bare, discover, disclose" in Welsh and he looks into the palantir and discovers Sauron's plans

dinerth means "weak, impotent, unable" and he gets dominated by Sauron's will.

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Just looking up words that sound like "Gondor" in Welsh:

gwen = "white" and dor = "enclosure, guard, door"  = Gondor, the White Fortress / White City. 

and dwyr  = "dawn"

and dwyre = "to rise, bursting to light"

and dyr = "to rise"

 

Also rohan means "rising" and "mounting" in Hindi  and the Rohirrim were mounted cavalry.

 

And eodor  [~Edoras] means "enclosure, fold, dwelling" and "protector, prince, lord" in Old English, and theoden  means "protector, lord" in Old English, and Meduseld means "mead hall"

[AlaskanSandman]

11 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Just looking up words that sound like "Gondor" in Welsh:

gwen = "white" and dor = "enclosure, guard, door"  = Gondor, the White Fortress / White City. 

and dwyr  = "dawn"

and dwyre = "to rise, bursting to light"

and dyr = "to rise"

 

Also rohan means "rising" and "mounting" in Hindi  and the Rohirrim were mounted cavalry.

 

And eodor  [~Edoras] means "enclosure, fold, dwelling" and "protector, prince, lord" in Old English, and theoden  means "protector, lord" in Old English, and Meduseld means "mead hall"

Rohan comes from Brittany, its a royal house that was founded by Conan Meriadoc. From Brittany comes the Forest of Broceliande that was also an inspiration to Tolkien, along with the Island of Belerion in Cornwall. Beleriand is likely a corruption or mingling of the two names. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conan_Meriadoc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Rohan

[Craving Peaches]

Speaking of King Arthur, could the island of Avalon, where he was taken when he was badly injured to recover (or where he died in some versions), appear in the story in any shape or form?

There is, of course, the Quiet Isle, where the Hound was 'reborn' if you follow the Gravedigger theory.

There are also the mystical, far-off islands that Gylbert Farwynd speaks of, where every man can live as a king.

From the Wikipedia Page:

Quote

Avalon (/ˈævəlɒn/; Latin: Insula Avallonis; Welsh: Ynys Afallon, Ynys Afallach; Cornish: Enys Avalow; literally meaning "the isle of fruit [or apple] trees"; sometimes written Avallon or Avilion) is a mythical island featured in the Arthurian legend that first appeared in Geoffrey of Monmouth's influential 1136 Historia Regum Britanniae as a place of magic where King Arthur's sword Excalibur was made and later where Arthur was taken to recover from being gravely wounded at the Battle of Camlann. Since then, the island has become a symbol of Arthurian mythology, similar to Arthur's castle of Camelot.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:19 AM, Tyrosh Lannister said:

lol

Dain / dein / adain  all mean "beautiful'" in Welsh

 

And one of the planets in George's Thousand Worlds is named Rhianon, and in Welsh Rhianon is a goddess that is the embodiment of feminine beauty [as well as being a Fleetwood Mac song]

And Rhianon has her newborn child taken from her in the Mabinogi

 

Sansa's fake identity is Alayne, and in Gaelic alainn means "beautiful" and Sansa is beautiful  [dian-alainn  means "very beautiful"]  also [roban is a pet name for a young boy in Gaelic]

And Sansa gets that identity at the Eyrie, and aorach/aereach means "airy, beautiful"

 

And in Dying of the Light, Dirk's love is named Gwen, and gwen  means "beautiful" in Welsh

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

6 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Rohan comes from Brittany, its a royal house that was founded by Conan Meriadoc. From Brittany comes the Forest of Broceliande that was also an inspiration to Tolkien, along with the Island of Belerion in Cornwall. Beleriand is likely a corruption or mingling of the two names. 

 

That's good, in LoTR, Meriadoc Brandybuck joins the Rohan cavalry.  mearaidhe means "fool, idiot, going astray" and meariadeacht  means "folly, error, madness" in Gaelic and brandy buck means "troublesome goat"

peregrine  also means "going astray"

and samwis means "fool, idiot, halfwit" in Old English and gaimse  means "simpleton" in Gaelic

 

 

 

[I think the name Conan comes from cionan which means "the best person, prince, chief" in Gaelic]

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Speaking of King Arthur, could the island of Avalon, where he was taken when he was badly injured to recover (or where he died in some versions), appear in the story in any shape or form?

There is, of course, the Quiet Isle, where the Hound was 'reborn' if you follow the Gravedigger theory.

There are also the mystical, far-off islands that Gylbert Farwynd speaks of, where every man can live as a king.

From the Wikipedia Page:

Whoa, in Breton King Arthur is Azhur.  and King Arthur has a flaming sword Excalibur. And he was born under a Red Dragon Comet.  And his father was Pendragon "head dragon" 

He is taken away as a child and fostered, and only learns his heritage when he pulls the sword from the stone. [Jon will claim Dawn from the White Stone Tower and prove he is a Dayne]

 

King Arthur is supposed to be waiting in Avalon, to return to lead England at its greatest time of need.  Aragorn returns when Middle Earth has greatest need of him.  And he is the last of the Dunedain that everyone thought was extinct. 

Aragon was fostered in Rivendell, which is a mini-version of Avalon/Otherworld where the Elves lives.  His heritage is revealed when he wields Narsil.

 

Excalibur / Narsil was being kept at Rivendell,  Rivendell is called Imladris, ymladd means "to cut off" and Narsil cut the ring off of Sauron.  And Rivendell is cut off from the rest of the world.

Excalibur was forged at Avalon, Narsil is reforged at Rivendell.

ym = "great" and llad = "grace, blessing"

 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Was just reading the Latin dictionary and saw that mando / mandere  means "mouth" and "glutton"  --and the Manderly's live on the mouth of the White Knife, and Wyman is a huge glutton. 

So I started looking for other "Manderly" words.

 

Wyman Manderly and his sons are described as walrus/manatee people. 

manodi  [sounds like "manatee"] means "snow" in Welsh, and as I said above gwin [~Jon] is right below gwimon [~Wyman] in the Welsh dictionary, and gwimon / gwymon means "sea-weed, wrack" which is what manatees eat.

 

manodi  = "snow" is on the same page as manddyled which means "debt"  and the Manderly's have a debt to the Starks that cannot be repaid. 

maunder means "to beg" and they came as beggars to the Starks, and the Starks gave them refuge--White Harbor is a refuge where people who are in need are taken in.  maunder  also means "to give alms to"

 

So manddyled  means "debt" and ocrwr / usuriwr  [~Ashara] means "usury, debt, gain" 

 

 

In Valinor the souls of the dead are imprisoned in Mandos, and maendo means "sepulchre" in Welsh.  And Davos and Ashara are "imprisoned" and "die" at the Manderly's city.

 

manddarlunio means "to draw in miniature" and Davos journey is a mini-version of Ashara's journey through White Harbor.

mando in Latin means "to commit to one's charge, entrust, command"  and Wyman gives Davos a secret mission that he entrusts him with.

 

mandra means "stall, manger"

 

mandell  means "wind" in Welsh and Manderly is known for flatulence, and talking too much.  his words are wind

and to maunder  means "to talk foolishly, to wander in one's speech"