Why Robert Didn't Offer a Lordship for Viserys and Daenerys?

[astarkchoice]

As someone pointed out already jon arryn stayed roberts wrath beforehand and only when killing danys was part of the plan was an assasin close to getting her

 

The problem is the very instrument (varys)  robert uses  to kill the targ kids also wants them alive for his own ends! So even if he gave the order years ago somehow it would always 'miss' 

 

"Ooh soo sorry ur grace my man missed them leaving the city by a few hours " etc

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

As someone pointed out already jon arryn stayed roberts wrath beforehand and only when killing danys was part of the plan was an assasin close to getting her

 

The problem is the very instrument (varys)  robert uses  to kill the targ kids also wants them alive for his own ends! So even if he gave the order years ago somehow it would always 'miss' 

 

"Ooh soo sorry ur grace my man missed them leaving the city by a few hours " etc

Why didn't they send people to capture them, they were children and hes their king

[astarkchoice]

2 hours ago, Alden Rothack said:

Why didn't they send people to capture them, they were children and hes their king

Any knights or people hed send would be easily avoided by varys and  illyrios  people! Theyd sheppard the targ brats away from.wherever his search parties went with realative ease.

[Alden Rothack]

2 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Any knights or people hed send would be easily avoided by varys and  illyrios  people! Theyd sheppard the targ brats away from.wherever his search parties went with realative ease.

Which Jon Arryn would know meant they had been warned, honestly Varys should have been executed on principal as hes either untrustworthy or incompletent and better off dead either way

[astarkchoice]

45 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Which Jon Arryn would know meant they had been warned, honestly Varys should have been executed on principal as hes either untrustworthy or incompletent and better off dead either way

Jon arryn isnt the sort to kill a man for being incompetent nor has he any way to suspect varys true goal. Even if he eventualy got tired of him 'missing ' the target he simply sack him and illyrio and varys would STILL be able to  run rings around any attempt to kill the targ kids in essos

[Alden Rothack]

1 minute ago, astarkchoice said:

Jon arryn isnt the sort to kill a man for being incompetent nor has he any way to suspect varys true goal. Even if he eventualy got tired of him 'missing ' the target he simply sack him and illyrio and varys would STILL be able to  run rings around any attempt to kill the targ kids in essos

normally but in this case I think he would

[astarkchoice]

15 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

normally but in this case I think he would

Possibly but  unlikely ...bear in.mind varys can easily escape prison and flee the capital...unless jon arryn asks to kill him on the spot (highly unlikely and out of character) hes going home to essos or if he thinks jon arryn will turn on him he can always give him the same trestment kevan got and get off scot free too!!!

[Alden Rothack]

4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Possibly but  unlikely ...bear in.mind varys can easily escape prison and flee the capital...unless jon arryn asks to kill him on the spot (highly unlikely and out of character) hes going home to essos or if he thinks jon arryn will turn on him he can always give him the same trestment kevan got and get off scot free too!!!

Honestly Jon Arryn isn't going to put him in a cell for that exact reason, he'll move only when hes decided Varys needs to die

Now if Varys was to find out and kill him that could happen to.

[astarkchoice]

Just now, Alden Rothack said:

Honestly Jon Arryn isn't going to put him in a cell for that exact reason, he'll move only when hes decided Varys needs to die

Now if Varys was to find out and kill him that could happen to.

Jon arryn has 0 way of knowing varys can move around the red keep and prisons at will , in fact most think of him as femminje coward

Yeah varys is in a lucky position that he can crossbow anyone he thinks will be trouble

[Alden Rothack]

Just now, astarkchoice said:

Jon arryn has 0 way of knowing varys can move around the red keep and prisons at will , in fact most think of him as femminje coward

Yeah varys is in a lucky position that he can crossbow anyone he thinks will be trouble

Hes a spymaster, Jon will presume he knows how to do that

[astarkchoice]

3 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Hes a spymaster, Jon will presume he knows how to do that

No other spymaster could , no its not a given with the job that you can escape cells 

 

[Alden Rothack]

4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

No other spymaster could , no its not a given with the job that you can escape cells 

 

Yes it is, your literal job is to have spies everywhere

[astarkchoice]

9 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Yes it is, your literal job is to have spies everywhere

Spies  most places yes but not most of the jailers being yours and even  then a jailbreak is risky requiring the sort of balls(pun intended) and loyalty to their master that most paid spies/snitches would lack.

On top of that varys is known for his masses of kid spies not grown ups , no one knows he also dresses up as a gaoler and no one could possibly know that he knows the  ancient secrets of the red keep inside out !!!

[Alden Rothack]

4 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Spies  most places yes but not most of the jailers being yours and even  then a jailbreak is risky requiring the sort of balls(pun intended) and loyalty to their master that most paid spies/snitches would lack.

On top of that varys is known for his masses of kid spies not grown ups , no one knows he also dresses up as a gaoler and no one could possibly know that he knows the  ancient secrets of the red keep inside out !!!

Clearly people do know he uses disguises

Given how corrupt most of them would have to be I doubt Varys bought their loyalty, he likely found something on them

[astarkchoice]

7 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

Clearly people do know he uses disguises

Given how corrupt most of them would have to be I doubt Varys bought their loyalty, he likely found something on them

 

true

He seems to avoid buying anyone (not secure)   he listens in with his  his own secret tunnels  and his loyal orphan kid network listening and stealing documents

Lf seems.to rely on bribes ,  finance secrets and his whore network (drunken happy men talk)

And least effective network  is cersei who probably spends money badly to buy snitches but is more reliant on pycelle and janos being  secret lannister loyalists for info.

Back on track though its unlikely jon arryn of all people will lash out harshly at varys for 'failing' to kill the targs nor expect him to disapear from the cells. It seems.jon was old and had a hard enough time keeping robert in check let alone wrangling a spymasters attempts to nail down 2 kids on  another continent!.esp one who seems.to give such accurtate info about literaly everything else 

[Alden Rothack]

2 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

 

true

He seems to avoid buying anyone (not secure)   he listens in with his  his own secret tunnels  and his loyal orphan kid network listening and stealing documents

Lf seems.to rely on bribes ,  finance secrets and his whore network (drunken happy men talk)

And least effective network  is cersei who probably spends money badly to buy snitches but is more reliant on pycelle and janos being  secret lannister loyalists for info.

Back on track though its unlikely jon arryn of all people will lash out harshly at varys for 'failing' to kill the targs nor expect him to disapear from the cells. It seems.jon was old and had a hard enough time keeping robert in check let alone wrangling a spymasters attempts to nail down 2 kids on  another continent!.esp one who seems.to give such accurtate info about literaly everything else 

actually its that last part that makes me think he would, hes too good at his job to be actually to find and capture them

I think Jon let it go in cannon because he didn't want them to be caught.

[astarkchoice]

20 minutes ago, Alden Rothack said:

actually its that last part that makes me think he would, hes too good at his job to be actually to find and capture them

I think Jon let it go in cannon because he didn't want them to be caught.

Hmm the issue is finding 2 kids across the water as they move around a series of cities being  possibly hidden by cointless numbers of merchants etc  is realisticly a hard task , him failing a few times wouldnt sound like gross incompetence

[John Suburbs]

On 12/7/2022 at 12:25 PM, Moiraine Sedai said:

And who can say the Faceless Men would even accept such a contract. Viserys and Daenerys are scions of the rulers of the Valyrian Empire. It is a very dark sin to harm them.  

They would, but not for a measly lordship. Only life can pay for death, and the lives that pay for the deaths of a prince and princess should be of commensurate value. So if Robert wants an FM to do it, he'll have to cough up a prince and princess of his own.

[John Suburbs]

On 12/7/2022 at 11:34 AM, Corvo the Crow said:

As the title says. Lordships can be granted at a whim, even Varys is a lord and Lands and titles are aplenty, especially after wars. Why Robert(or rather, his council) didn't offer a lordship for Dany and Viserys, dead or alive? Why he didn't use diplomatic channels with Braavosi etc. are also different matters that begs questioning. You aid and abed the number one pretender to my realm? Ok, no trade with you. Plain and simple. It's not like any of these free cities can break the embargo through force at arms either. Sure Braavosi are the most powerful naval power but they barely forced Pentos into the antislavery treaty, if Braavos attacks the Iron Throne, not only is it bad for the trade but also weakens them against the slaving free cities and the rest of the cities stand even less of a chance against IT than Braavos does. 

It was on Jon Arryn's counsel. He probably figured that there were more important issues to address first, like the Dornish situation, marriage negotiations, and in general returning the realm to a state of normalcy.

One thing that would certainly not help that cause, though, is a trade war, and then an actual war with the likes of Braavos, Pentos or any of the free cities. Robert's political position was precarious perhaps up until the Greyjoy Rebellion, so any major commitment like that would no doubt put the idea of a counter-rebellion in the minds those who call him "usurper."

And then after a while, after not hearing anything about them, they dropped off the radar, until Dany got married . . .

[SeanF]

The Sealord of Braavos was witness to the betrothal of Viserys to Arianne.  At that point, an assassination attempt would have pissed off the Braavosi government, and doubtless they made that plain to Robert.

There’s an assumption that assassinating high value targets in foreign countries is simple, and has no diplomatic repercussions.  That is just not true.